Methodology and tips for archiving old stereo and 4-track ta

B. Prophet · Post by **B. Prophet** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:03 am

I am rearranging the studio around a PC/scope and 2 macs with 2408mk2s. One of the first ongoing projects will be to record and archive old mono, stereo and 4-track tapes for "permanent" storage.

What tips would you suggest for:
Signal path, both pre-post AD conversion. = I am thinking of going straight in to the pulsar analog ins (I have 4) and recording that. Since I have no PC multitrack software, which is on the mac, moving the Scope in>AD>via lightpipe to DP4 on mac.

So, How to use the scope signal chain (effects if any) to best effect? I might save originals and then a cleaner/restored set, to use for remixing and sampling, so two goals there.

Questions come up also on pre-amp before scope or not. Worth it? Too risky in coloring the sound vs. the risk of peaks- so maybe a limiter before the scope? (I admit I haven't a good one...)

I just need to get years of old work to digital before deterioration makes them worthless...some friends no longer around, some jams for 25 + years ago, alot of things I want to preserve.
All this is low budget, too, not to limit the discussion. It does limit my options for sure.

Thanks for the thoughts =hopefully of value to others as well.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: B. Prophet on 2006-07-23 05:44 ]</font>

B. Prophet · Post by **B. Prophet** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:13 am

I would also add that I am looking at mic/inst pre-amp, and maybe a used yamaha i88x or firestation, to get both some decent pres and extra channels into my scope.
(Well, really into the system - alot of ways i can send audio around. )

This might not have much to do with old tapes, but who knows? The main point of the thread, to keep on topic, is how to best use scope in the process...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: B. Prophet on 2006-07-23 06:34 ]</font>

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:52 am

On 2006-07-23 05:03, B. Prophet wrote:
...Questions come up also on pre-amp before scope or not. Worth it? Too risky in coloring the sound vs. the risk of peaks- so maybe a limiter before the scope? (I admit I haven't a good one...)

well, I dunno what kind of tapes you have, but when digitizing some old Reggae vinyls with a Pulsar (the old 20-bit A/D version) the hiss of the original 4-track tapes was still noticable

So the current Scope 24-bit input should be more than adequate for this purpose.
The 24 bits give you a lot of extra headroom, so you don't have to go as 'high' as on tape to get a good result - just use the stock dynamics to avoid overshoots in those cases where you can't predict the level (or to be safe in any case)

digital archiving is a tricky question anyway, as certain devices aren't as reliable as sales departements want to make us customers believe

If it's really important I'd make one copy to the DAW (which serves as the source for current projects later) and copies to at least 2 individual harddisks (even if one disk isn't full) to be put in a safe place - plus 2 sets of CDRs and 1 audio CD version.

cheers, Tom

at0m · Post by **at0m** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:33 am

You may have better luck with your 4track, but my TEAC 80-8 8track with Dolby Encoder has outputs that are just too hot for my Luna2496's unbalanced inputs.
Next, I'm gonna try (to borrow) a balanced ADDA box and I hope it doesn't clip on that one... Pre-amps could be used too for chopping some volume off of the multitrack, but I don't think I'll find 8 at once for this purpose. It may be clear that I want to record all 8 tracks at once to avoid having to re-allign the tracks later.

Good luck!

B. Prophet · Post by **B. Prophet** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:55 pm

Good advice on multiple backups, Tom.
And who knows whether a dvd will last 5 or 100 years.
Hard drives - a better bet, probably.

Your comment also reminded me that I have a pulsar 1, that they were 20bit i/o. (on non-pro version.)It's been so long since I bought it, i forgot. I am just gettng back into scope after some yrs of it being out of use. Bought a scope project to upgrade that system, get ulli, and make modular worth its while.
Then added two mk2s, for extra i/o.
They are going for about $250 on ebay, and I think a good compromise quality vs cost.

Looks like the motu 24 bit will have to AD for the 4 tracks.

So, for the restoration, any scope basic devices you would recommend? I mostly have used it for the synths in the past, and computer mixing in scope is new to me, much less restoration...

B. Prophet · Post by **B. Prophet** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:11 pm

At0m,

Thanks for the hot level heads up. As the post above notes, for the 4 track (teac3440) I will be using motu 2408 mk2 24/48-- Probably straight in via lightpipe to scope.
Since I have no PC sequencer/recorder, I might it out then to the mac, to either DP4.5 or more likely, Apple'sSoundtrack pro.
That part may sound crazy, but it is minimal and has great noise floor tools, room sound removal and other nice things.

So, the scope environment could be bypassed altogether, but I want to do some testing on scope as a part of a larger system. In this case a mixer/effects unit.

astroman · Post by **astroman** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:25 pm

Creamware had a very good restoration tool in the days of TripleDat - Osiris.
The same developers (Algorithmix) released a follow-up product for Scope (Osiris XP).

I processed the Osiris XP 'before' demo examples with the original program version and compared my results to their 'after' examples.
The new version performs only slightly better on vinyl, but according to the developer the tape/noise part was improved to a much higher degree.
Unfortunately it's a 500 Euro 3rd party product (CWA shop), but the Restore bundle contains that software, a 3 DSP card and an 8 track version of TripleDat for 798 Euro.
If you have lots of tapes it may be worth considering, as it does it's job in realtime.

I've checked a lot of 'affordable' restoration software (though only on vinyl) - the Algorithmix stuff was always in the top range of quality.
Imho the old Osiris (written by the founder of Algorithmix) easily smokes anything below 300 Euro on the market.

cheers, Tom

B. Prophet · Post by **B. Prophet** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:54 am

Wow, the Osiris/ restore pack looks good, and the samples on CW site are impressive, esp. the diff - I have checked out soundsoap, and it was extremely difficult to get out pop/click/hiss without also grabbing some of the intended signal as well.
Since my wife's final cut pro package has soundtrack, I will give it a try n the tests - after all, it is paid for, and works rather well - but am open to the scope restore pack as well...
Can't do another low dsp card, it'd be great to have that in a mix/master scope 5.0...
You are right though, since I have 25 years of my "legacy" on the line, (such as it is) an investment in the right tools, and a well tested methodology are key to doing this right.

Thanks for the thought provoking ideas and tip!

B. Prophet · Post by **B. Prophet** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:08 am

At0m,

On a work break, so brief checkin.
On aligning files -- I have been thinking of this, and am undecided as to method here.
Obviously capturing all tracks at once, with as little in signal path as possible, is good.
Checking levels,(taking good notes on peaks, time), playing through the tape once through, to loosen the tape and realign to the reel.
Then clean heads again, and do a record run.
Then, ?? run tape on record unless there is a glitch or something? So as not to run over the heads too many times? I can then trim/cut them into song segments so they all align.
**And keep some noise floor/room noise sample room on the originals** so that they are available for the room noise removal tools.

Clean rinse repeat.
Oh, and of course some database of metadata related to each tape, song, track and various notes. Before my memory fades more than the signal on tape....

After all that, restoring, remixing some of the good stuff, sampling loops and all will be funfunfun.
At that point it becomes digital compost, ready for new works. Circle of life.