Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

A place to talk about whatever Scope music/gear related stuff you want.

Moderators: valis, garyb

User avatar
Mr Arkadin
Posts: 3244
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm

Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by Mr Arkadin » Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:09 am

So I'm thinking that some time this year I will 'upgrade' to Windows 10. I have looked at a few threads but all the information is all over the place or a bit old, so I wanted to maybe get all the info in one thread.

My system:
Windows 7 64-bit (latest updates)
XITE-1 running Scope 7.0.1706
Cubase 10 (with latest patch fix)

So what steps do I need for set-up (like run as admin, do I need to disable anything etc.)?

Anything I need to look out for? Do I need to run anything in compatibility mode?

All hints, tips, personal experiences welcome.

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21973
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by garyb » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:40 am

with v7, win10 should be pretty easy.
you need to do the usual bios and power settings, the same as in win7.
you probably will not need compatibility mode, at least not for Cubase.

one thing to watch out for is that the built-in onedrive can eat a lot of CPU cycles. i would disable it in the registry. sometimes it makes trouble, sometimes not.

win10 really needs to be connected to the internet. it is the beginning of a client-based solution, rather than local applications, so it is intended to always be connected. if you don't let it update, funny things can happen. if it updates normally, it is pretty well-mannered.

this article is getting a little out of date, but it will point you in the right direction(when getting started):
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/10-things-t ... indows-10/

i am of the opinion that doing heavy tweaks to the os only leads to trouble. i see no need for bleeding-edge acrobatics...

User avatar
Mr Arkadin
Posts: 3244
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by Mr Arkadin » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:40 am

garyb wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:40 am
win10 really needs to be connected to the internet. it is the beginning of a client-based solution, rather than local applications, so it is intended to always be connected. if you don't let it update, funny things can happen. if it updates normally, it is pretty well-mannered.
Yeah, that's the sort of crap that put me off Windows 10 in the first place.

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21973
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by garyb » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:06 pm

:)

User avatar
valis
Posts: 4930
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by valis » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:41 pm

Note my Scope box is still running on my 2001 Dual Xeon XP32 box. Of course there are 3 Win10 machines and 3 Macs in that room too, but just sayin...

dawman
Posts: 13504
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by dawman » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:18 pm

For old times sake and my busy scheduling I had GaryB hook me up and it was a very different Windows 10 install than I was doing.
Disabling Cortana and One Drive make 10 a breeze.
Mine is online when not gigging.
Updated only once but it was odd that it updated when I just set the rig back up and the 100 foot LAN Line wasn’t yet connected.
I guess it loads files then updates when it wants?

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21973
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by garyb » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:30 pm

yeah.

did it help to set the fans to auto?

User avatar
valis
Posts: 4930
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by valis » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:37 pm

gary indeed knows his stuff.

User avatar
yayajohn
Posts: 1200
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:01 pm
Location: Everywhere....Nowhere

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by yayajohn » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:38 am

Is selecting not to open One Drive on startup in the settings the same as disabling it in the registry?

dawman
Posts: 13504
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by dawman » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:22 am

garyb wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:30 pm
yeah.

did it help to set the fans to auto?
I changed them in the BIOS w/o looking.
Think I’ll try out auto today and check temps.

I usually let those bastsrds roar @ 22k to hover around 53C.

How high you think I can run at safely.
Ever since my over heating @ that outdoor gig, I be tripping.
It was so weird. It didn’t shut down, itjust souded like somebody threw a few Comforters over my cabs.

But what a great build. All the local guys, mostly gamer gurus do “pretty” work but never understand my desire for low temps and real time performance.

David
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Modular IV

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by David » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:42 am

yayajohn wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:38 am
Is selecting not to open One Drive on startup in the settings the same as disabling it in the registry?
Afaik nope as it can still be called upon by other apps etc.
To remove it completely or otherwise - https://techjourney.net/disable-or-unin ... indows-10/

Windows 10 offered to turn on core isolation and memory integrity but they can be turned off - https://www.howtogeek.com/357757/what-a ... indows-10/

User avatar
next to nothing
Posts: 2517
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Bergen, Norway

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by next to nothing » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:58 am

dawman wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:22 am
garyb wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:30 pm
yeah.

did it help to set the fans to auto?
I changed them in the BIOS w/o looking.
Think I’ll try out auto today and check temps.

I usually let those bastsrds roar @ 22k to hover around 53C.

How high you think I can run at safely.
Ever since my over heating @ that outdoor gig, I be tripping.
It was so weird. It didn’t shut down, itjust souded like somebody threw a few Comforters over my cabs.

But what a great build. All the local guys, mostly gamer gurus do “pretty” work but never understand my desire for low temps and real time performance.
a few notes regarding this which might be helpful. When i set up my 4770K, the original voltage is adaptive with a base of 1.25 volt. when i ran at default settings my idle temp was around 50-53 celcius, max temp was around 83 and it would thermal throttle and occationally crash on stresstesting with prime95. Disabling adaptive voltage and setting it to stay at 1.3 volts (and overclocking to 4.3Ghz) brought down idle temps to around 39 degrees and temperatures at stresstesting to max 70-73 without thermal throtteling. I do not know what processor you have now, but maybe look for some safe, higher and stable (as in not adaptive) voltage to run if you are at default settings.

PS; if you do not know Prime95 it puts a ridiculous load on your CPU and RAM, and all cores will max out on 100%. It not a realistic load in any sense, but if it survives this it will survive basically anything with regards to thermal throtteling etc. As far as i know, modern CPUs will power off before any damage can be done, but please don't hold me accountable if anything is damaged :D
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

User avatar
Bud Weiser
Posts: 1522
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 am
Location: nowhere land

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by Bud Weiser » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:26 am

dawman wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:18 pm

... Windows 10...
Disabling Cortana and One Drive make 10 a breeze.
Mine is online when not gigging.
Updated only once but it was odd that it updated when I just set the rig back up and the 100 foot LAN Line wasn’t yet connected.
I guess it loads files then updates when it wants?
Wow, l didn´t know Win10 has to be connected to the web all the time and disabling updates results in issues instead the opposite,- at least for audio/MIDI.
Automatic update out of the blue while gigging, using already downloaded files and even the internet connection isn´t established is a nitemare.
IMO, that makes it unusable for audio/MIDI when mobility is needed.
You have a 100ft LAN line ?
Do we have internet connectivity in every rehearsal room and on every indoor and outdoor stage now ? :lol:

I thought you´re still on Win 7 which doesn´t need permanent internet connection.
Did that change ?

I understand Win10 machines permanently connected to the web might be halfway acceptable in studios, but already for a mobile studio it becomes questionable,- no ?

:)

Bud

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21973
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by garyb » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:16 am

it does not need to ALWAYS be connected, but it DOES need to be connected enough to do its thing checking in for updates.
win10 will still ask for permission to actually do the update, usually when shutting down.

i set my lan connection as metered(registry hack), so it never downloads without my permission, but when it's denied access to the web for extended periods, win10 does get cranky and insistent.

you don't like this behavior?
refuse to buy this type of computer tech. if enough people refuse and complain to m$ and intel LOUDLY, it will be abandoned. my guess is that people will consume like sheep, and all the complaining in obscure forums and chatrooms will be ignored. if this is the case, it's best to learn to live with it. look how many want to be clients instead of customers. look how many insist on living in the cloud, when local programs are more secure and useful. look how many want to do everything on their phones and tablets, instead of machines that they own...

actually, win10 is a very nice OS for most things.

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21973
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by garyb » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:58 am

there is no need to have the latest OS, anyway. if there is a software demand for it, or if the chosen hardware won't work without it, then by all means, use win10. it's fine.

otherwise, if the computer won't ever be on the net, then what does it matter if you use win10, win7 or XP, as long as the software and hardware will function? i see people worrying all the time that m$ is ending support for older operating systems, but that's all about network security. older OS won't suddenly explode. i guess some people don't feel right unless they are using bleeding edge computing, but i keep mistakenly thinking that the real purpose is to have tools for music production, not fancy computers.

to my mind, the most disgusting trend is that people are just buying fancy toys, and they are not really that interested in music-making itself. trends seem to trump tools. no wonder the market is so dreary!

User avatar
Mr Arkadin
Posts: 3244
Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by Mr Arkadin » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:42 pm

I'm only thinking about this because the latest BFD3 from fxpansion is W8 and W10 only (effectively making it Windows 10 only as I don't know any musos that use W8 - or many people fullstop!)

They've dropped W7 support and I was very vocal about my thoughts on that!

dawman
Posts: 13504
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by dawman » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:31 pm

I noticed updates happen on shut down.
It actually says update and restart, or update and shut down.

Thanks for voltage tip NTN.
I liked the 4790k’s so much I bought two new ones and sat in them.
Only thing I’ve changed in the last 4 years was switch from W7 to W8.1 and now W10.

And Bud the Family Room has the HTPC and Router with a 58” Samsung UHD 4K.
Down in the basement me and Scope 4 Live Jr. each need direct connections.
His 100 foot is perfect to reach his area.
I’ve got a 75 footer, but had to add an extra 10 cable to that.
It’s fun down there.


6EAB3C3A-8607-4C87-8C2C-12529F4A94F4.jpeg
6EAB3C3A-8607-4C87-8C2C-12529F4A94F4.jpeg (173.2 KiB) Viewed 1692 times

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21973
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by garyb » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:52 pm

Mr Arkadin wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:42 pm
I'm only thinking about this because the latest BFD3 from fxpansion is W8 and W10 only (effectively making it Windows 10 only as I don't know any musos that use W8 - or many people fullstop!)

They've dropped W7 support and I was very vocal about my thoughts on that!
win10 should work just fine.

User avatar
Bud Weiser
Posts: 1522
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 am
Location: nowhere land

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by Bud Weiser » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:41 am

garyb wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:52 pm

win10 should work just fine.
Gary,- once I´ve seen a pic you using a laptop w/ XITE-1,- IIRC from former NAMM (or Musikmesse ?).

So,- do you use any laptop w/ Win 10 and SCOPE 7 actually,- and if YES, which laptop ?
For me, it´s all about I´d like to use XITE-1, S|C A16U and SCOPE 7standalone w/ a laptop offering expresscard 34 slot and allowing disabling Intel Turbo mode and energy savers etc. in BIOS.
It´s not because of mobility only,.- it´s also because of lack of room since caring for the old aged and not livin´ in my former house anymore.

It´s so hard to find such machine because no one in shops knows about BIOS details or understands necessity of "realtime usage".

:)

Bud

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21973
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Windows 10 - what do I need to look out for?

Post by garyb » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:51 am

no, not at the moment. i still have my old Vostro 1400, which does work great, but it's a little old now.

i'm pretty sure that the Thunderbolt to Expresscard adapter from Sonnet Technologies would open up the number of your opportunities.

i had also built a 3 space rack-mounted PC with a server screen/keyboard/mouse unit that takes up 1 space. that was a pretty nice package that only took up a 4 space rack...

Post Reply