Level matching query

A place to talk about whatever Scope music/gear related stuff you want.

Moderators: valis, garyb

Post Reply
fraz
Posts: 916
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Springfield !

Level matching query

Post by fraz » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:18 pm

Hello Scopers,

I'd like to run something passed the tech folks here about signal flow and level matching. I've thought this through but would like to check if this is correct or not.

I've got 2 Luna 2 boxes & a Fostex VC-8 - all unbalanced consumer level.

Sonifex have the RB-UL4 - direct link for convenience

http://www.sonifex.co.uk/redbox/rbul4_ld.shtml

These are too pricey really but if there was a used one in good condition who knows - nice n cheap - :) - please !

So, lets say I've got some line level sound modules -

>>>>coming out of synth output > into RCA/phono RED BOX > out XLR RED BOX > into LUNA 2 RCA input ????

Is >>>> this the correct way to do this - then consumer level is now pro level? - at the input???

signals would now be in Scope - So,

If signals needed to come out of the LUNA 2 ??? - another RED BOX would be needed to match the level at the output ??? - Is this correct???

So for every 1 x 8 I/O box unbalanced - 2 x level matching units would be needed, 1 for IN and 1 for OUT?

This is just a query - (the cost of these units is off putting)

>>>>>>>>>>>Another way would be to increase the GAIN in the channel strip - This is bad right??? - raising the noise floor ??? - Any comments welcome as I'm no pro engineer - :) - thanks

Are there any other cheaper alternatives to do this?

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21721
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Level matching query

Post by garyb » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:11 pm

why do you need an adapter?
the synth out level is about the same as the Luna input level. you only need to adapt the connectors.

do you have anything with balanced +4 inputs or outputs?
then the adapter might be useful to help with your connections.

if the level from the synth is just really low, then you will have to add gain. adding gain isn't bad unless the signal to noise level is bad. in other words, clean gain won't make the noise much worse than it already is in the original signal. if the original signal is noisy, then the signal with gain will also be noisy. those redboxes add gain when changing a signal to +4 balanced. clean gain isn't a problem. the signal to noise ratio of the gain determines how bad adding gain sounds. sometimes we like the sound of added gain that is noisy, like in guitar amps(not too noisy).

with all due respect, if you find those boxes to be expensive, then you are in the wrong game. :D

if you had a lot of consumer level devices to plug into a +4 system, or needed a +4 system to interface with a -20 system, or vice versa, you would neeeed those boxes.

synths are consumer level even though they are pro devices. "consumer level" and "pro level" don't indicate whether a consumer or professional would use the device, of course.

User avatar
Janni
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Cologne - Germany

Re: Level matching query

Post by Janni » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:58 am

1. Gary is right :D
2. Just check this:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 2-172-8871

the guy is selling a P2 with Z-Link Plate and an A16 Ultra (black) for 700€.
He is willing to split the two items for 350€ each.
So you better get that A16 for 350€ instead of getting that redbox imho.
You can adjust the levels of the A16 with dip switches to match your needs (eg. 8 Ins -10, 8 Ins +4) and just sell the Lunaboxes.

Cheers,

Jan
-/-

fraz
Posts: 916
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Springfield !

Re: Level matching query

Post by fraz » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:55 am

Well Garyb,

The Red Box's @ £300 each GBP just to match the level is pricey compared to Ferrofish A16 AE @ £500 for a full 16 I/O - There may be a cheaper alternative - I'll keep looking

And Janni, I've already got enough PCI cards for now - though if a 15 DSP board arose with ADAT I'd be tempted and also have enough A16's though only one with the Z-Link, the S|C A16 Ultra which is great for Xite

And I'll need to keep the Luna II to use with Z-Link on the PCI cards

Anyhow I'll find a solution, hopefully quite cheaply for this purpose -

User avatar
Janni
Posts: 375
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: Cologne - Germany

Re: Level matching query

Post by Janni » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:39 am

Maybe I got you wrong...
I just thought you might get that A16Ultra with ADAT and ZLink for 350€ (not the PCI card) and sell the Luna Box (not the card).

imho you would not have to add analog gain. Just adjust the A16 Ultra using the dip-switches at the back next to output 16.
I'm doing it like that with my A16.
-/-

fraz
Posts: 916
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Springfield !

Re: Level matching query

Post by fraz » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:03 pm

Hello,

I have 1 x A16 Ultra S|C with Z-link - This enables me to access 32 I/O on the Xite

The Luna 2 boxes I have - 2 of them - Are to connect to the Power Sampler - 3 DSP PCI card + 1 X Z-Link & expansion plate (ADAT)-&-1 X Z-Link (4-pin floppy power connector)=16 I/O with Luna 2 - On the ADATs I can use A16's balanced -etc..... but I thought it would be nice to be able to have a level match on the Luna 2's.

Now because I'm no pro engineer - it's difficult to know to begin with what is needed - Now I know the Sonifexx Red Box would match the levels of the Luna II boxes but would cost me £600 GBP+ to do this -

As it is there must be a cheaper way to do this with another "equipment option" I'm not aware of currently.

I'm keen to keep the Luna II - There is nostalgia with the older equipment - and there are PCI cards I've bought 2nd hand that have Z-link on as well as the 3 DSP board I bought in 1999.

So it would be good to find a solution to this so when it's needed to use the Luna II there is a contingency to use the boxes with Pro level on a par with the other A16's / Xite / PCI cards - with 5.1 & or 7 !!!

So if you know of any options I'd be grateful for the feedback - In the meantime I may find something - :)

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21721
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: Level matching query

Post by garyb » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:00 pm

you don't need the red box.

the Luna inputs are consumer level, just like a synthesizer is.

Post Reply