Thoughts on a PCI chassis

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emotive
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Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by emotive » Thu May 18, 2017 1:25 am

Hi all,

I am thinking of getting one of these:

https://www.exsys.ch/en/expansion-box/e ... power.html

since PCI slots are difficult to find with newer chipsets on both AMD and Intel Platforms so does anyone have any thoughts regarding this particular unit?

I was looking at other brands but this one seems the best, i.e. it has VC and ECRC but I'm not sure if the former has any function in this case.

Personally I'd rather get an X-ite but besides being unavailable in my country, I'm not sure if it will "exist" in future.

Thanks for all the information thus far

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Marco
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by Marco » Thu May 18, 2017 3:32 am

This is a always problematic solution, it is better way to buy a new Mainboard, there are enough aviable with 3 PCI slots
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emotive
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by emotive » Thu May 18, 2017 3:48 am

Marco wrote:This is a always problematic solution, it is better way to buy a new Mainboard, there are enough aviable with 3 PCI slots
Hi Marco,

I understand what you are saying, it is just that I'd like to use a modern CPU, OS and chipset if I possibly can.

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Marco
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by Marco » Thu May 18, 2017 3:54 am

There are modern configurations aviable.
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emotive
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by emotive » Thu May 18, 2017 4:19 am

Marco wrote:There are modern configurations aviable.
With more than 2 PCI slots, I haven't found any that require a firmware upgrade and without a CPU how can one upgrade :evil:

Anyway, so is it not recommended to use an external chassis with Creamware cards?

The obvious advantage is to not have to worry about the computer but for me latency is no issue as I only program MIDI and rarely do any recording (even MIDI recording) so does that change the equation in any way at all?

Thanks for the replies thus far.

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garyb
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by garyb » Thu May 18, 2017 9:40 am

the problem is that an external chassis degrades PCI performance significantly, and only the very expensive Magma actually works properly with more than one card. even the Magma provides poor PCI performance.

you might have to get a used one, but a Z87 or Z97 chipset will allow a modern CPU. the later CPUs will not offer significant performance gains, at least for audio.

emotive
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by emotive » Thu May 18, 2017 12:45 pm

garyb wrote:the problem is that an external chassis degrades PCI performance significantly, and only the very expensive Magma actually works properly with more than one card. even the Magma provides poor PCI performance.

you might have to get a used one, but a Z87 or Z97 chipset will allow a modern CPU. the later CPUs will not offer significant performance gains, at least for audio.
Hi gary,

So does the performance translate to higher latency or are there other factors?

As for chipsets, as you'd know newer processors have more advanced instructions that over time result in better performance overall and I do use my systems for things besides audio.

Saying that, does anyone know of any Intel 200 series chipset or AMD X300/370 motherboards that have at least 3 PCI slots?

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garyb
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by garyb » Thu May 18, 2017 2:04 pm

no, it leads to reduced PCI performance= more PCI overflow and earlier PCI overflow.

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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by emotive » Thu May 18, 2017 2:06 pm

garyb wrote:no, it leads to reduced PCI performance= more PCI overflow and earlier PCI overflow.
So does this occur even with the PCIe to PCI bridge?

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garyb
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by garyb » Thu May 18, 2017 2:15 pm

yes.

they suck.

you're better off with two computers, you'll spend less than a Magma, and the Magma is the only one that will really work correctly with 3 cards.

the chances are that the "more advanced instructions" available for the latest series of cpus aren't even supported in the software, unless you're using some very advanced cad/cam apps or such. some video may see benefits, too. are you a professional?

emotive
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by emotive » Thu May 18, 2017 2:58 pm

garyb wrote:yes.

they suck.

you're better off with two computers, you'll spend less than a Magma, and the Magma is the only one that will really work correctly with 3 cards.

the chances are that the "more advanced instructions" available for the latest series of cpus aren't even supported in the software, unless you're using some very advanced cad/cam apps or such. some video may see benefits, too. are you a professional?
I don't know:)

What I do appreciate however is knowing so thanks for the information.

Would you suggest something like Vienna Ensemble or VST System Link?

I have 3x Scope cards 6 DSP's each but I'd need licenses for each system.

If there was a special on I'd consider going this route.

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garyb
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by garyb » Thu May 18, 2017 4:11 pm

licenses for each system? why?

one Z87 or Z97 based computer is sufficient for almost all audio purposes. system link certainly works, it depends on how demanding your needs really are.

emotive
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by emotive » Thu May 18, 2017 4:18 pm

garyb wrote:licenses for each system? why?
I thought a license only covered one card on one system regardless of how many cards are in that computer.

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garyb
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by garyb » Thu May 18, 2017 7:18 pm

oh, no.
only one card per computer needs keys.

emotive
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by emotive » Thu May 18, 2017 7:42 pm

garyb wrote:oh, no.
only one card per computer needs keys.
Yes, so I would need 3 licenses, 1 for each card and with this stuff being so old I don't know if it's worth it really.

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garyb
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by garyb » Thu May 18, 2017 8:14 pm

???

if only one card needs keys and all the cards are in the same computer, why do you need 3 licenses?

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garyb
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by garyb » Thu May 18, 2017 8:17 pm

if you are using 3 different computers, then how much would it cost to get new interfaces for each?

i just don't understand. i'm sure i must be missing something.

well, again, it all depends on what your purposes are...

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Marco
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by Marco » Thu May 18, 2017 10:47 pm

Just get one extra pc for the 3 cards and that's it. You certainly have the keys for one of the cards.
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by JoPo » Fri May 19, 2017 3:58 am

--> Emotive..

Yes Gary is right : your 3 card system will work much better in an old, 2° hand, motherboard with 3 pci slots and connect your new pc and the old one with ADAT, analog I/O, spdif, vienna ensemble, vst link or whatever. And in this way, you'll get extra power for vst's, you keep your 3 cards with an older pc and use a new one with your daw.
Vienna is excellent ! But you may use another system, less expensive... You have the free Copperlan for midi via ethernet. With VST system link, you'll need Cubase, for instance, on both pc, which means 2 licences of it !! Very expensive solution ! But you may use a free VST host on the older pc and control vst's in this host simply via midi.
There are a lot of solutions, depending of your needs and wishes.

Now, my system is : 2 pc, one older with my 3 pci cards, one newer with my Xite and they are connected via vienna in order to use the older pc power for vst's, but they are also connected via Xite & pci cards ADAT I/O and Coppelan and sometimes Silent Way and Usamo box.
I have 4 screen monitors : 2 of them that share the 2 pc's and one for each pc above, so I use the 3 video outputs of both pc. By using a software like : https://symless.com/synergy only for the keyboard & the mouse instead of a KVM box, I can still edit things on one PC while I'm watching the other on the screen. Really convenient ! I have 2 KVM boxes : one by screen but only for the screens ! :)

There is some free soft that do the same (din't try them) : http://www.keyboard-and-mouse-sharing.com/freeware.htm - http://okvm.sourceforge.net/virtualkvm.html

And one I tried, it's working correctly but has less advantage than Synergy : https://www.inputdirector.com/
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <

emotive
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Re: Thoughts on a PCI chassis

Post by emotive » Fri May 19, 2017 2:25 pm

This might help:

https://www.pcper.com/news/Motherboards ... 151-boards

I have not as yet found a motherboard, e.g. ASUS that has Flashback and 3x PCI slots, or that doesn't need a previous generation CPU unfortunately.
Last edited by emotive on Sat May 20, 2017 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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