Where does the Scope platform go?

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ronnie
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by ronnie » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:08 pm

dawman wrote:I want Scope 8.
I tire from mismatching numbers from Yamaberg & Micro$oft, App£€, etc.
Bring back STS from the 32bit bone yards too.
VDAT so I can do demos again, etc.
DITTO. A new VDAT Could be much easier to navigate BTW. No more mounting tape BS.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays

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garyb
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by garyb » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:51 pm

well, being that a VDAT was meant to be an actual ADAT that would lock with a real ADAT...

sure! a new multitrack recorder would be great! i'm sure it's pretty low on the priorities list, though...

jksuperstar
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by jksuperstar » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:49 pm

If the VDAT is so magical (I haven't used it really), then it'd be nice to provide whatever magic phase alignment or other facilities are there to simply recording over ASIO, or something to that effect. :)
Last edited by jksuperstar on Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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garyb
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by garyb » Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:01 pm

well, i'm not sure what would translate via ASIO or the sequencer's environment, but just as a stand-alone, it sounds very, very good. it just goes to show that old programming can still sound as nice as ever, since VDAT is a founding device of the Scope platform...

dawman
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by dawman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:22 pm

The sound quality was so good I used Alfonso and Assaf's clock and click so we as a band synced up to VDATs backing vocals, all mastered in Scope.

Once it left the box it just became another MP3,

fraz
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by fraz » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:55 pm

Yes there are some loyal customers waiting-

I've got PCI cards and Xite-1 and did upgrade to version 5 even for the PCI cards- I'm a S|C customer :wink:

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ARCADIOS
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by ARCADIOS » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:04 am

It's very important that support exists... and we still can use scope...

Me personally, after 12 years using scope... I don't need any changes. In fact I don't want them.
Scope is the base of my system because it """"doesn't"""" change as well.
The gui... ok.. might have an "undo" option. or a few minor bugs fixed.. like flipped L/R channels.(in wave source for instance)

BUT NOOOOO
I BELIEVE THAT IT IS VERY IMPORTNT TO NOT CHANGE..
SO IT STAYS LIKE REAL HRADWARE>>>>>

ITS GREAT THAT IT EXISTS.
this way I don't have to spend more time for understanding a new software interface...

This way I spend this time.. by getting deeper to scopes capabilities...which are very very powerful

Also this way.. the siyuation is great for improving my sound, with very little minor steps each time... and in fact it takes years to have a good sounding project... a precisely set STM mixer... or SYNTH preset!!!
ELVISLIVES

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dante
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by dante » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:24 pm

+1. I don't need a new Scope. The only reason I would buy it would be due to temptation of just having it if it had a nice GUI that e.g. looked more like hardware :lol: :)

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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by yayajohn » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:51 pm

Granted Scope is great as is but lets not sell ourselves short. As great as Scope is there are lots of things that could be better and I'm not talking change just for the sake of change. For instance, I for one would like to see better DSP allocation and optimization. Being able to assign devices to a DSP is great but there comes a time where you have to spread the load and that is where I feel the process could improve a bit. Perhaps that is not possible though.
Here's another: When you load up a device and don't have a registration key it sends you on an endless loop of clicks to get it to go away. No not critical but definitely annoying.
There are others but i'm sure that Holger is working diligently to perfect this platform and I am all for that....the pursuit of perfect.

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petal
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by petal » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:39 am

I agree. Scope might be good for many things as it is, but the original post's question is a valid question, especially when official news about development since the last update, which has been what 5-6-7 years now? is nonexistent.

To me DSP optimization is also a high priority - If bad DSP assignments have made it's way into my project (which can easily happen) and I save the project. The bad assignment and the project that is not working properly and doesn't sound as it should any more, is saved with it. This is bad, because you might not notice until much later.

And then the annoying bug in the midi assignment/saving system, which is over a decade old = I cannot assign midi parameters to official scope devices and save them in a project.

Since I discovered these bugs, I actually stopped diving into Scope, and started waiting for Scope 6.

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enantiodromia
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by enantiodromia » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:54 am

wow Scope 7 !!!?? Gary b are you serious???

can we please get any info on that ? whats gonna be different?

would love to know what parts you abandoned from scope6 and why? what about paraseq ?

is it gonna be like scope 6 meant to be in term of modularity? i mean the part where you can go to any device say minimax , add lfo , change the filter?

any planned changes\addons for modular? new oscs , lfo's, filters? is there a chance for a good vst clock module? or better sync solution?

any plans for bigger midi resolution?

can we get a very rough estimation of the development priorities and whats already been more or less completed?

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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by dawman » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:03 am

Same valid points were said about u-He Zebra.
I use my rig live where UAD and RME still can't compete.
Console 2 and Total Mix are basically handcuffed by Operating Systems.

I think Scope wanting to support older cards was a decision that hampers performance of the newer SHARCs.
I see this in Solaris where 6 SHARCs do lots of processing more efficiently since they weren't handcuffed by compatibility.
UAD tried this and it was a disaster, but SonicCore succeeded, so the 12 chips are just not running as well as they could because compatibility and support for loyal customers was more important.

I could stay with XITE-1 and Z97s for years and never need new treats.
The whole idea for me was a system that works so I can make music.

Personally I need to perform and create.
I refuse to let technology or the lure of "new" features distract me from the main objectives.

I have replaced hardware effects, hardware MIDI Devices, hardware mixers, thousands of dollars or cumbersome large hardware with something the size of a book.

I'm quite satisfied and love the fact everything just works..

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enantiodromia
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by enantiodromia » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:26 am

also wanted to know if scope7 will give better performance with xite

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garyb
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by garyb » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:16 am

nope, i have no info.

whatever plans exist won't be released until the software is. what's the point? it's a huge job and nobody in this entire world could say what can and can't be done until it's complete. if it was a simple as writing a driver, we'd already be enjoying it.

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RA
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by RA » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:46 pm

I just want share some info on the optimizations, allocations and midi ctrl assignments issues as stated here by yayajohn and petal.

These in my opinion have nothing to do with flaws in Scope!

This is something a developer HAS to incorporate/think about in his/her design! This seperates the men from the boys (If i may say so, but sorry for saying it like that).
For the dNa plugins i have developed DSP optimizations i called "DynamicDSP" which handles the allocations and dsp loads, and the "Phase Alignment Technology" which handles the way the DSP sounds and will sound consistently. Maybe it is time to explain some in depth about what it actually is and does. It is not just some sales argument!

DynamicDSP makes sure that functions that are not needed can be unloaded from DSP thus freeing DSP resources BUT ALSO makes the plugins able to be re-allocated if the situation occurs that some other plugin not optimised is asking for more "room" on a DSP chip. Only thing which could be a problem with really complex internal circuits is the SAT errors. For me that could be a sign that parts of a circuit gets distributed over too many DSP chips, as the connections between DSP chips are limited.

The Phase Alignment Technology makes sure that L/R or other/more channels are linked to one another, making sure the phase relations between them stay CONSISTENTLY the same. Phase errors are the worst thing that can happen to your audio! This is not always easy, and especially the older chips have limited DSP computing power, which sometimes limits a design. That is exactly the Super8Tracker only has 8 channels. I cannot guarantee the when i put more channels in that the phase relation between ALL channels stays the same no matter what processing you put on it.
If you have channel 1 with absolutely no processing (no limit, no EQ, no HPF) that HAS TO HAVE the same delays(being microdelays) of another channel which DOES have all the processing enabled. This cannot be fixed with delays! This cannot be fixed by assigning them to dedicated DSP chips! A design has to be dynamic! It should be able to let the scope software decide how to place it onto the DSP chips. SCOPE handles that perfectly!!!!! That is also what makes a "blend" function in MasterCOMP complex. The unprocessed has to be delayed the same amount the processed part is (by being dynamic). And being dynamic means: you cannot predict where it's gonna land on the DSP chips.

The Xite chips have much more power in them, up to 5 times that of the older 66mHz chips on the PCI boards. So if one developes on Xite, and just places all the processing on 1 xite chip (in order to keep everything phase alligned....yeah great, but you can't load that on a PCI board if the load is more than that of one older chip...20% of a new one.


The Midictrl remembering stuff is also something which a developer can choose to incorporate in his/her designs. One can set flags for that/make parameters of the assignments. So that also has nothing to do with SCOPE.

So...i challenge anyone to try the dNa plugins and test them thoroughly, cause things can really get complex with all these issues, and give FB on any encounters on an issue, so i can fix it. One can easily oversee a parameter or a flag ;-) I think i got most of it covered, also saving midictrl settings in project, but also in the presets. Yayajohn already made some efforts there, the TapeEcho and Summer-of-82 had been fixed on his behalf. Thanks mate!

Hope this sheds some light on these issues.

Oh yeah, one thing again....i still develop in SDK 4, the Creamware version! All dNa plugins are created in that version, thus back then it was already possible. And....every dNa plugin runs on v4 software, with almost no compatibilty issues (to my knowledge only dNa-Optimus Prime where the loop function doesn't function on v4 software, but that can easily triggered by your DAW with settings, or just buy S|C Scope software ;-)
Last edited by RA on Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by dawman » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:14 pm

I was wondering about the MIDI Rcv buttons' necessity.

The explanation above says it all.
Pitch shifter, Chorus are incredibly transparent and do not create added volume in the AUX channels, provided they are true Stereo Aux's.

My only suggestion would be to add a link function to feedback knobs on the Delay so a single CC# can be used.

I dont use presets, I modulated every parameter live when performing.
Samples are static, no sense adding static effects to static sounds.
At least adjusting FX adds Motion to the ocean.

I'm still tripping about the depth of the Reverb parameters.
Filter is kind of faint but maybe I have to keep playing with it.
But delays, verbs, Chorus and Pitch Shift are top shelf...

I use 3 x DNA Racks and a single Fireworx mostly for Reverb and Phaser.

Just a few weeks ago my 3 x TC Fireworx were completely untracked.
One snuck back in.
But still the pair go for at least 900 used.

:)

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RA
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by RA » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:36 am

I think it would be better to make the link function on the fb and mix instead of the delaytimes. The times you can type in also and since its stereo just a little difference makes a great stereodelay.

I think ill change that in the next update im working on here. Got a nice surprise in the field of those midictrl things. You'll see. Think you will love it :D

Filter can make beautifull transitions in music between parts...going to the bridge or chorus....kinda morphing.
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petal
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by petal » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:44 am

RA wrote:I just want share some info on the optimizations, allocations and midi ctrl assignments issues as stated here by yayajohn and petal.

These in my opinion have nothing to do with flaws in Scope!

The Midictrl remembering stuff is also something which a developer can choose to incorporate in his/her designs. One can set flags for that/make parameters of the assignments. So that also has nothing to do with SCOPE.
I'm afraid the problem goes deeper than that - It's been a while, but I tested it quite a bit a few years back and reported my findings here:

http://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33529

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RA
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by RA » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:25 am

Hi Petal im gonna check that for you with my devices. As said..the dna devices store both the exact value and the midicc, which in itself has nothing to do with the value. I agree it is important that there should be full recall, which i still think the dna devices have. Further more non optimized devices can sound different because of the phaserelationships. Ill get back. Thanks
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garyb
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by garyb » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:10 am

presets don't always work correctly, but at least on the STM mixers, midi cc assignments are saved perfectly in the project. i use this all the time.

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