Where does the Scope platform go?

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robinette
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Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by robinette » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:15 pm

Five years ago they announced Scope 6. Today nothing is known at all.
There is only life in third party plugin developers. Soniccore does not give life signals.
I love this platform, but I need to know what future awaits.
Some bugs continue on 64bit. Some devices do not work on Xite.
I would like to know if Soniccore has any expectations of improving, updating and developing the platform.
If it is not so, make an official announcement about the abandonment of support.

Sl2.

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garyb
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by garyb » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:36 pm

support is not abandoned.
Scope 6 won't happen.
Scope 7 is in production.
there is 3rd party life because SonicCore exists and is in contact with them.
SonicCore is not Microsoft or even Avid. the work crew is small and progress is slow, but the company still exists. you can still use 18 year old cards made by Creamware, a completely different company than SonicCore, in current computers running windows 10 because support is still existant.

this is not an official support forum.

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RA
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by RA » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:49 pm

1: Can only underline everything GaryB states here!
2: But i can also totally understand why you ask!
3: See 1.
4: Again...see 1, you can still make music with it.

Hope it helps...don't give up on a wonderfull concept and product if you like it. :wink:

:D
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53E7
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by 53E7 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:29 pm

Sonic Core is very much alive. They aren’t the type that will give you snappy apps for your phone or weekly software updates which you may or may not really need, but I had a hardware problem recently and they fixed it. It was something I did to my XITE, something so stupid that I’d be embarrassed to go into detail about here, however, I contacted support, they emailed me right back. I sent it to Germany and even though the unit was out of warranty they charged me a very minimal amount, which I felt was extraordinarily generous. Alive indeed.

Also, a company doesn’t need to be alive for you to use the gear. The gear just has to work and have reasonable service options. Would you turn down an ARP 2600?

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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by Nebukadneser » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:10 am

Long time user hobbyist user here.

I am impressed by the numerous high quality plugins that have appeared recently. It is certainly exiting to see how new developers manage to increase the sonic palette of the platform by offering inventive synths, processors and effects. However, I am a little concerned that the user base is (too) small to justify the effort made by developers. I can imagine that the customers who use their PCI cards will become increasignly smaller due to MOBO constraints on their next upgrade. The growth potential is probably largest among existing and future users of Xite. Now, Xite / Xite-D is at these days of financial insecurity quite a big investment, and a niche product aimed at the semi-pro and pro market. There is no longer an affordable entry option for potential new customers. It would therefore be interesting to know if S|C is planning to offer new hardware in terms of an entry level Xite to attract new customers from the hobbyist segment. Also, this could be aimed at those who see the use of their PCI cards coming to an end.

Neb
(Luna II, Pulsar I + II, Noah EX)

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RA
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by RA » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:22 am

:D Well....the efforts are commercially NOT justified for me personally :lol:
Edit; i dont actually mean justified...but it is not profitable against the huge amounts of work it costs

But rewarding if people still spent hard earned money on something in which you put all your efforts in, and they really like it. Those same people can realize that they almost have custom built and very exclusive devices (as there are not that many sold to be honest).
But the concept and hardware is far from being dead, and there are still ideas being developed, but sometimes you get thrown back bigtime, and have to start all over AGAIN....like scope 6....like some hardware never released....it takes time, money, effort, time, blood, sweat, tears, effort, money...and last but not least a vision.

We're freaks and see it as a mission.
Last edited by RA on Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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robinette
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by robinette » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:18 am

RA wrote:But the concept and hardware is far from being dead, and there are still ideas being developed, but sometimes you get thrown back bigtime, and have to start all over AGAIN....like scope 6....like some hardware never released....it takes time, money, effort, time, blood, sweat, tears, effort, money...and last but not least a vision.

We're freaks and see it as a mission.
Nebukadneser wrote:However, I am a little concerned that the user base is (too) small to justify the effort made by developers. I can imagine that the customers who use their PCI cards will become increasignly smaller due to MOBO constraints on their next upgrade. The growth potential is probably largest among existing and future users of Xite. Now, Xite / Xite-D is at these days of financial insecurity quite a big investment, and a niche product aimed at the semi-pro and pro market. There is no longer an affordable entry option for potential new customers. It would therefore be interesting to know if S|C is planning to offer new hardware in terms of an entry level Xite to attract new customers from the hobbyist segment. Also, this could be aimed at those who see the use of their PCI cards coming to an end.
That's what I'm talking about.
Soniccore takes 5 years ... (yes, 5 years) since its last announcement (Scope 6).
Five years hiding without doing anything. They do not even update their website. I think it's enough reason to be worried about the future of the platform.

Xite-1 and Xite-1D are the only products that offer Soniccore. They are expensive products, available to few users. Xite offers 32 channels (16 through z-link), but z-link is not being considered in recent ADDA converters.
As portable platforms are far from viable options (there are almost portable with expresscard). After seeing that Soniccore does not give the face in 5 years and seeing that z-link is also abandoned ... it is difficult to consider buying a Xite interface.
Only survive with the users you already have. And we get less and less because people get tired of waiting, or prefer to work on OsX ... or simply because the technology advances and Scope is no longer the only flexible routing option and good synths and plugins.
If we are less and less users, the platform will die whether we want it or not.


garyb wrote:support is not abandoned.
Scope 6 won't happen.
Scope 7 is in production.
How do you know? Who says that? That information comes somewhere so you can corroborate it.
I'm not saying I do not believe you, I just think that what you say should say Soniccore maybe.
Although it was not going to be believable after saying 5 years ago about Scope 6. :D


garyb wrote: SonicCore is not Microsoft or even Avid. the work crew is small and progress is slow, but the company still exists. you can still use 18 year old cards made by Creamware, a completely different company than SonicCore, in current computers running windows 10 because support is still existant.

this is not an official support forum.
That's the problem. That you should give more coverage to support through your website. I know that through email support is received. But that is not valid for future buyers of the platform to trust in it.


RA wrote:Hope it helps...don't give up on a wonderfull concept and product if you like it. :wink:
:D
I have been with this platform for 10 years. I currently have a system with Xite-1 + 3 Scope PCI.
I have a lot of money invested in this platform and maybe it's time to leave without losing everything. At this moment it still works, it works fine but ... until when ?.
I do not know, but sometimes I get the feeling that the door is closing and I'm going to find it inside. :o

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faxinadu
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by faxinadu » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:00 am

robinette wrote:
garyb wrote:support is not abandoned.
Scope 6 won't happen.
Scope 7 is in production.
How do you know? Who says that? That information comes somewhere so you can corroborate it.
I'm not saying I do not believe you, I just think that what you say should say Soniccore maybe.
Although it was not going to be believable after saying 5 years ago about Scope 6. :D
lol garbyB knows this because garbyB IS sonic core's support rep on this forum ;) so you just got info from the source

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faxinadu
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by faxinadu » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:05 am

frankly i don't see the use of my pci cards coming to an end for another 5 years AT LEAST, and xite far beyond that.

i really don't understand these types of topics tbh. 3rd party was going nuts this last year, and 2017 is going to be just as insane and sonic core themselves are working very hard on the future. you have an amazing platform that you can integrate with anything. no one says don't use your vsts or ipad apps or anything, you can have the best of all worlds. make music :)

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Mr Arkadin
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by Mr Arkadin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:19 am

robinette wrote: I have been with this platform for 10 years.
I've been with it 16 years. There aren't many systems still useable this many years later other than hardware.

robinette wrote: I have a lot of money invested in this platform and maybe it's time to leave without losing everything. At this moment it still works, it works fine but ... until when ?.
I do not know, but sometimes I get the feeling that the door is closing and I'm going to find it inside. :o
I have a lot of money invested in this 49-year-old body of mine and maybe it's time to leave without losing everything. At this moment it still works, it works fine but ... until when ?

There are no certainties in life (bar one), why spend you time worrying about what might happen? It's a DAW. What's the worst that can happen? It dies and you have to get a different system? I'm sure that will be an earth-shattering moment for everyone.

Gotta love pessemism.

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RA
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by RA » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:29 am

Scope 7 is in production

I as well as Gary can say this from 1st hand. As we write SC is working on that. And a lot of the source is and has/had to be rewritten. Scope 6 you dont want to go there...really. abandoned for a good reason. Developments have gone so fast these past few years...i for one could not have anticipated all recent developments. But as fast and good native gets....scope has a sound to it with near-to-zero latency!. It is still not just an interface. Now why would one buy an old vintage mixing desk...or an old vintage synth...with all its quircks..buzzes and noise....no support for that either. You take it for granted...it gives you a buzz and it gives you what you want and gets you creative.

I'll tell you a bit about the backend of SC.
5 years ago SC was a small company. Now it is even smaller. Website is not updated yes...SC is frustrated by that also. But the focus is on 'a new reboot' then also with a new website. There is no point updating it now. I shared all your thoughts...but im keeping faith.

Policy btw of SC is also taking along customers who were always loyal. There were a lot of customers of CW who keep nagging and whining to SC about updates and or support. SC is NOT CW. Users with v4x software were CW customers, and if they did not decide to hop to v5, being SC scope software, they have no right to say anything. Let me please state clear that is not the case with ALL v4 customers! And i also want to state that i was also one of the whiners back then. I was really frustrated about certain things and wrote some really furious emails....evil me lol...so i can understand certain perspectives haha.

Now...since it is a device of its own...just controlled through a pc...suppose SC would disappear...you can still use scope with all its processors linked or patched into your digital mixingdesk. Thats how i use it. 24ch to yamaha dm2000 for rec-mix and 8 ch for processors...mastering and/or fx. You know what an eventide or weiss processors cost? And it doesnt have the synths or routing flexibility....or the trichorus haha that is in the dNa-effectrack....for the price of 1 original you can probaly buy an xited with fxrack and optimus and treat your lady on a weekend out....and an optimus or effectrack you can load multiple times...all at zero latency and fully recallable.

But that is just my view...but again...i understand your frustration. God....how many times have we seen 'soon'....but you do still have a great piece of hardware.
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RA
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by RA » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:33 am

@Mr Arkadin
I have a lot of money invested in this 49-year-old body of mine and maybe it's time to leave without losing everything. At this moment it still works, it works fine but ... until when ?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :o :roll:
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by Ambient Source » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:22 am

I made a similar post before I brought in to Scope, and now I have an Xite 1D and 2 PCI systems,
Scope has changed the way that I work .and I find it to be an incredibly flexible solution for my
small studio, there's so much I can do with it, and so much more to learn ;-)

robinette
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by robinette » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:35 am

Bastards... you've encouraged me again. :D
I know it's the best platform (for me at least). Many times I have considered going to the dark side (OsX + UA Thunderbolt) to have greater simplicity of cables and space, portability, DAW integration (better than XTC mode) and get the best of OsX (iPad apps too).

But fuck... Win10 is good and I am patient, so I have no problem in continuing as I am and living with you the future development of this amazing platform.
Scope 7... wow!!!. :o

Thanks. :)

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ronnie
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by ronnie » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:29 am

My Creamware hardware is 14 years old. With a little TLC (clean contacts, re-seat cards and connectors) they still work with the usual minor glitches that we've all experienced and overcome with the help from this forum and GaryB who has been there for me from my first purchase and setup in 2003 and walked me through it on the phone.

I've upgraded from 3 to 4 to 5 with no problems that I can recall that weren't pretty easy to fix. The cards moved through three PCs over the years without a hitch. Many of the plugs and modeled synths are still not fully matched in native and if they are, they are CPU hungry with latency issues. Native is first starting to catch up with the features of OptiMaster. Of course to catch up with the Native stuff you have to continually invest in expensive hardware upgrades where Scope can run full featured production on Windows XP.

Most of the synth emulations have not caught up IMHO. The plethora of 3rd party synths and effects and utilities by our die-hard developers are practically personally tailored to our needs and requests over the years and still continue to expand and add new vistas to the platform and keep my latency at under 13ms.

My biggest beef with Scope is that it has never been multi-client ASIO. Voicemeeter fixed that for me. ProcessLasso let's me tweak everything I need to optimize my Windows and hardware for Scope and Native to be pretty bulletproof.

Having said all that, my total investment in Scope hardware and plugs is around $5,000. Divide $5000 by 14 years and I've spent $357 a year. That's less than a dollar a day! A dollar a day! :o So, considering all the really part-time production work I have done with Scope over the years, recording, mixing, mastering, and performing all for decent money, competing with studios that cost 50 to 100 times as much, it's paid for itself at least ten times over. And when times were hard with the daytime gigs, it's kept my family alive for that $1 a day.

Hello? Scope saved me much more by not needing hardware boxes that you can see and wind up on Reverb or Ebay for less than half of what you paid for it and software that croaks and needs constant patch, update and upgrade resuscitation just to breathe, not to mention the hundreds of feet of noiseless cables that I don't need.

I'm sure Scope 7 will be great, although I can't imagine that it would do much more than what I've already got. 8)

But bring it on and bring on the new website and surprise the rest of the world with something they can grow into. Scope has a great story to tell and I hope it never ends because, well it never ends! :lol:
Last edited by ronnie on Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays

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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by yayajohn » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:28 pm

good gear never goes out of style. Sooo much depth to this platform, it's a real bargain no matter what level hardware you own.

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RA
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by RA » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:09 pm

@Robinette : "The Force will be with you always." :P
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by al_bot » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:37 pm

as an amateur musician, i've loved how logical, easy to use, and powerful scope has been. the more i dig into it, the more possibilities and cool things keep coming up. for me, it's been both an instrument and an educational tool on synthesis and mixing. it's changed the way I do things / think about my setup.

I wish there was an "entry" level Xite hardware version for more people to try and experience. like something in the 1000 range and then be able to add more DSPs like the old cards. I was only able to get into Scope by taking a risk, buying a used Pulsar 1, and playing with it. Then adding more DSPs when I had the money and when I really understood the power and what I wanted to do.

Thanks Sonic Core and All those 3rd Party Developers!

robinette
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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by robinette » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:19 am

RA wrote:@Robinette : "The Force will be with you always." :P
:D

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Re: Where does the Scope platform go?

Post by dawman » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:15 am

I want Scope 8.
I tire from mismatching numbers from Yamaberg & Micro$oft, App£€, etc.
Bring back STS from the 32bit bone yards too.
VDAT so I can do demos again, etc.

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