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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:45 am 
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It's a guess on my part hubird. But it makes sense.

Mass produced does not mean good in my experience.

I recently got a dark energy 2 from doepfer. I went to a shop in London to try lots of similar analog synths. It's the same sort of price as a bass station 2 and minibrute. Which are both a lot more popular and well advertised! All fit in the same bracket of a mono analog synth.
Anyhows they sound total poo in comparison to the offering from doepfer.

The world I sometimes think is heading towards idiocracy, why try mass market to a bunch of morons that just won't "get it" (I don't mean to be rude I am just being extreme in my comment to highlight a point)

The best cars in the world are not mass produced or advertised.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:54 am 
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I agree with you, Hubert... But I'm much less pessimistic than you. A such good product can't have a bad future.. You don't have a Xite but I have and believe me, none of any other audio gear is as good as Xite on the market to day and for a long time. At any prices !! That is the most amazing ! Even if you had double Xite-1 price, there is no equivalent (since 20 years !)

But none must forget the reality principle : if the few left people at S|C don't get enough money to eat, dress and sleep, it will colapse. That could seem to look like that : they give up and close down S|C to go to cook french fries at Mac Donalds to feed their starving children. Did you ever noticed that when some just a bit famous people or things disappears or die, all the people jump on it and claim it was the best thing/person on earth ? After S|C death, every stupid today blind guys realize that Scope & Xite was the best thing to make music with a computer and want to have it...
A realistic scenario, imho... I really hope that will never happen... I really hope people from S|C is going to realize their product need to be known...

Price of your gear is going to rise ! But is that your goal ?... I'd like to see S|C developing Xite potential, which is, I believe, above all other products. Aaah ! If S|C would still have all those developers who jumped out of board some years ago : brainworx guys, the ones who made "SC-" reverbs, John Bowen, SPL, etc...

Le monde est mal foutu.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:22 pm 
true points.
there's still a life line, and there's love for the platform :)

At the same time you can feel how vulnerable that sounds...

It's the lacking perspective, and the clock ticking.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:27 pm 
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the clock is always ticking. no one gets out alive.
it can be seen as exciting, dull, sad, joyous, cruel or generous, depending on attitude and intention.

always with the negative ways, moriarity, "Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves. Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"
https://youtu.be/Xyh-JpWdGmQ


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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:36 pm 
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Hey JoPo

John Bowen is very much with sonic core, all the Zarg plugs are still there and they make the hardware Solaris together!

Luckily what spl and bx offered is basically covered by d.a.s, they offer a free transient designer (which was the only thing spl sold) and master it eq basically covers the bx digital! Think dante pointed out that das actually did the algorithm for that device, so.

But yeah in a ideal world it would be nice if all devices stayed forever.

But does xite have the tools for the job? In bucket loads does it!

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:52 am 
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Hm, been following the platform since 2002 and have seen products come and go and so also with marketing efforts.

CW made very wise moves to attract different users by making diverse products: Luna - Pulsar - Scope, Klangbox, ASB, Noah etc. Full page adverts were published in Computer music, Keyboard player etc.

Things seem a little different today.

Xite and xite-d are more high class niche products then what the assortment of pci-cards were. Price wise the entry to the “world of sound” is much higher now than previously when people could buy the entry level Luna II 3 dsp cards. Hence, the market is no longer the same as during the PCI era.

The amateur hobbyist can't be a target group, if they ever were.

This is not necessarily a problem, marketing wise. It is now most likely easier to define and reach the target group, which I believe are the semi-professional and professional users. Surely, potential new users will need certain prior knowledge on audio production in order to appreciate the huge potential an investment in the platform will make, which gives an idea on how to communicate with that particular target group.

Dilemma is that in order to attract developers, the user base should keep growing. An even more affordable mini xite, equivalent to the Luna range, would most likely help attracting new users by increasing the market to also include the amateur segment.

The loss of the Mac user base is of course a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:44 am 
Nebukadneser wrote:
Dilemma is that in order to attract developers, the user base should keep growing. An even more affordable mini xite, equivalent to the Luna range, would most likely help attracting new users by increasing the market to also include the amateur segment.
That could work indeed :)

The idea is perfect, the question however is if reducing the number of DSP chips is enough to realise that cheap hardware.
It won't be an overnight investment anyway, and I don't see where that should come from, alas.

Nebukadneser wrote:
The loss of the Mac user base is of course a problem.

don't make me... :D


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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:57 am 
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I wush you're right, Liquid Edge ! It's a pity to not get a Xite-1 working well Solaris... It half work : nomore than 1 voice ! Plenty of preset need several voices... Just to play a chord ! And Xite-1 has the power ! It's the soft that doesn't follow... All the code should be write again to work with Xite ! I'm dreaming to have it working well !
The DAS transient designer won't work properly, here. It rise and low its level continuously in the time. And I tried it with different config. There is no device like SPL transient in Scope.

I agree with you, Nebukadneser exept on one point : Xite-1 is not bought & used by only professionnals or even semi pro ! I'm a 100% amateur and I believe here, on Z, the majority of Xite owner is not professionnal music producers. I must confess that I bought a Xite-1 because I had that huge cash inflow and I'm not sure if, otherwise, I would have buy it. But as an amateur, with the money I had, the first thing I wanted to purchase was an Xite-1.

And why did I want to buy an Xite-1 ?? Mmmm ? Guess ! It's just because I knew its potential ! And for people to know its potential, people need to know, to be aware that device exists, at least. So, we get back at the point : the lack of S|C marketing.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:19 am 
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kyma doesn't do any marketing either though and i am sure they produce only on demand. scope is at this time a niche tool as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:41 am 
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I don't believe Kyma & Scope are comparable. But I'd love to have Kyma with my Xite-1 !! That would be totaly amazing ! Apparently, Kyma needs an audio interface to make a sound :
http://kyma.symbolicsound.com/configuri ... nterfaces/
I don't see any S|C in the list...........

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:00 am 
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Oh. Will look at the transient designer from das again, lol. Don't think I have reached for it for a while and I didn't notice what you say.

Solaris, i think they are just focusing on the hardware. What I meant is the devices are still available for purchase, yes, shame Solaris for scope is not optimised for xite, though I can get 3 voices on most patches. Check this explanation from John Bowen about Solaris on xite. http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_26/sol_mast.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:25 am 
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That's the point, dear Liquid ! Solaris won't ever work with Xite... :(

Kyma looks even more special than Scope ! First the price : the lowest price is like Xite-1 price : http://kyma.symbolicsound.com/which-is-best/ !! Hhhh !!

That is 100% for sound design.

And their forum is absolutely frightening !
http://kyma.symbolicsound.com/forums/

Brrr ! Loneliness in a huge cold dead desert. Finaly, I'm not sure I would buy that (if I had the money !). I would buy a travel to Iceland. I'd like to go there. And see volcanoes on an ice landscape.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:33 am 
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JoPo wrote:
That's the point, dear Liquid ! Solaris won't ever work with Xite... :(

Kyma looks even more special than Scope ! First the price : the lowest price is like Xite-1 price : http://kyma.symbolicsound.com/which-is-best/ !! Hhhh !!

That is 100% for sound design.

And their forum is absolutely frightening !
http://kyma.symbolicsound.com/forums/

Brrr ! Loneliness in a huge cold dead desert. Finaly, I'm not sure I would buy that (if I had the money !). I would buy a travel to Iceland. I'd like to go there. And see volcanoes on an ice landscape.


how do you know that Solaris WON'T EVER work with XITE? that is up to John, it has nothing to do with SC, unless John is paying Holger to help him with any needed programming.

Kyma is a thing for people who want that kind of thing, and it does still exist, regardless of the official forum or if you go on vacation to Iceland, which you probably should.

always with the negative ways, moriarity, "Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves. Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" :lol:
https://youtu.be/Xyh-JpWdGmQ


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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:33 am 
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Are you so sure I have the negative way ??

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:36 am 
yeah, strange accusation.
Like the old Bush: you're with us or against us...


Last edited by hubird on Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:38 am 
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it's a quote from a movie! it's funny! did you even watch the clip?

and just for asking such a silly question, or responding to it:
always with the negative ways, moriarity, "Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves. Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" :lol:
https://youtu.be/Xyh-JpWdGmQ


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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:39 am 
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bottom line, tonight, as with the last nights since about 2003 my wife and i had an amazing time jamming with some wine and ableton and controllers and lots of scope :) enjoy the ride guys, come on, is this the Z or freaking KVR or what?

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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:26 pm 
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JoPo wrote:
That's the point, dear Liquid ! Solaris won't ever work with Xite... :(


works 4 me - on the 'D' - hahaha - hehehe - I'm a laughing gnome and you cant catch me (the late d. bowie) - https://soundcloud.com/hitfoundry/optimus-solaris-2015


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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:29 am 
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It has been for while ;-). For those who remember me I used to own several cards and a NoahEX. I am currently using a UAD Apollo with many good plugins.

From my experience, Marketing has always been a weakness of Creamware / Soncicore but honestly :
- this company was very creative and in advance. I am still impressed by the usability of the "old" cards on the long run.
- No other company has succeeded in making such complex and powerful tool
- No other company has succeeded in gathering mixing AND synth tools / recreations. We are in 2016, and even UAD interfaces are "only" audio (mixing, preamp, real instruments preamp/amp/fx)... soniccore remains a killer for electronic music !
- Creamware / soniccore has created a lot of new products since the introduction of their pci boards (Noah, ASB, klangbox, Xite, A16ultra, ..) so we cannot blame them to be passive.

On the other hand, RME and Universal Audio have become very good when it comes to :

- communication (new products, anouncements, viral digital marketing),
- customer service (hey that's marketing too !). RME and UAD cannot be beaten IMHO ...
- updates (hey that's marketing too !!!), strong companies never launch products at a beta stage.
- product marketing (the very design of Xite does not match with the power and amazing flexibility of Scope system... what a shame. I am not saying it is ugly but that should be far more appealing for that level of price and quality/power !!!!!!! Again that's just the superficial part but check at an Apollo Twin at around 900 euros and you will see what I mean. Hardware and GUI of the plugins are part of the marketing).

As for Creamware/Soniccore, it has greatly failed in this matter unfortunaltly. That does not call into question the sound, the quality and the efficiency and performance... but that means less customers, less money... less investments... At the end all customers suffer from this startegy (driver updates, new products, customer service...). To be honest I was desappointed and almost angry to switch to UAD years ago (i still miss my sonicore boards and scope virtual wires !!!) but i did not want to spend money for an expensive product that might not work with future setups/computers.

I still beleave that a good range of product (that's marketing !) with upgradable options (like they did with Luna, pulsar, scope....) could have been the key of success because even people with money still spend carefully and sometimes gradually their money. At UAD it is easy to cascade several Apollos and to add power (thunderbolt) and plugins (very addictive beleave me) but Soniccore used to do that in the 80s with creamware boards !!!! Why taking the risk to narrow down your market ? the only reason could have been to launch a very expensive unit (Xite), instill the desire and eventually launch smaller/less powerfull products....

One last point, Soniccore should know that many musicians and studio owners love their studio because their equipment LOOK good and professional (see how all successfull preamps, FX racks, synths look like... ). Xite should look far better (for the price they are asking) and considering the power/tools at reach). And price should be in tune with the market and competition (we all remember that Noah was a nice product but ... too expensive compared to vst plugins and a good VA keybord.

I am still hoping that one day I will buy another soniccore product ... a small (and beautifull) Xite (e.g : desktop interface) at around 1000 euros could do the trick !

jonathan
French Touch


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 Post subject: Re: Why does Sonic core Do No Marketing?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:17 am 
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I could be going mad here. But I seem to remember comments when creamware became sonic core that part of the reasons stuff got out of hand was having small and lots of products and attracting the wrong type of customer.
For all we know, sonic core do not want to risk and/or spread themselves thinly to the budget consumer!

To me xite-1 looks like a tank. Which is good! A strong powerful tank with audio finesse! Not some fluffy Christmas tree!

And anyway if in audio world people go for looks over audio quality than more fool them!

But then I am obsessed with scope. From my point of view there is nothing better. And the whole time I have witnessed the scope platform nothing has ever been a gimmick. I can't stand how other companies relentlessly "update" their stuff to squeeze more money out of people.

The ethos is correct!

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