A plethora of questions from someone considering the XITE-1

[zerocrossing]

Hi all. I'm Mark and I do some experimental guitar/synthesis based music using live audio looping.

For a while I've been contemplating a way of getting high quality synth sounds without all the extra hardware that's cluttering up my world. Don't get me wrong, I love all my little babies, but ever since I found myself sharing a studio space with a (now occupied) spare bedroom, it just seems awkward. I have no problems with virtual UIs for hardcore editing and a Novation Remote SL for live tweaking.

What instruments and effects does the XITE-1 D come with? Seems like it would be a simple thing to find on the Sonic Core site, but I couldn't find it. All I found were vague statements like, "Besides the countless plug-ins that are included in the SCOPE software there are many other useful plug-ins from Sonic Core and different third party manufacturers." I bet you actually could count the plug ins that come with it... as well as name them. Why don't they? This is super important because I'm currently in a situation where I don't have much disposable income, so I'd have to ditch pretty much all of my hardware instruments to make it happen. I could do this and have some money left over for a few extra plug ins but I'd like to be able to figure the budget all out before I make the leap.

I know this can only be answered in a ball park way, but how many "voices" of instruments is typical of a D. I ask because I'm currently getting 19 voices from a variety of hardware instruments though I'm using all VST effects. I can do with less, but I'd like to be able to stay in the same ballpark. Of course, I get extra voices from VSTs as well.

Is integration with Ableton Live pretty flawless?

How long can I expect it to be supported?

Can it be used with a Firewire interface? I'm currently using a Presonus 16.0.2. that's working flawlessly on a Dell PC with my Firewire card. This is important because if it won't work alongside another audio interface inside Live, it will mean that I'll have to make due with only 4 audio inputs and two will have to be dedicated to the output of my Kemper Amp Modeler, so that would leave me with only two inputs unless I go with some secondary DAC to go in via ADAT. I'm not even sure what extra costs that would bring.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

[dante]

Heres a list of some : http://sonic-core.net/joomla.soniccore/ ... 28&lang=us

With reviews on the 'Sonic Core' tab here : http://www.hitfoundry.com/scope/

The reason all are not listed ? Probably because there literally are too many. The lists above dont even touch on the mixers, or Modular.

Polyphony ? Depends on too many factors not known until runtime - sample rate, type of synthesis, how many DSP on your hardware (full XITE vs XITE-1D vs PCI card varieties), what else is running in you project and how many SAT connections they are using, use of manual assignment etc etc....

If you look here http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_09/syn_mast.htm under 'Scope Setup and Synths' - I was running 9 synths with a total of 35 poly on the XITE-1D at @44 or 48 KHz and that used 1/2 the DSP (with no manual DSP assignments). All the synths shown there on the left are bundled (except Prodyssey? - not sure), the 4 optional ones are listed on the right.

[garyb]

one nice thing about Scope is that you can integrate the world inside the computer and the real world outside the computer in realtime using Scope as the hub...

no, you would not want to use the firewire interface. the Scope interface of the XITE is superior anyway. as far as extra cost, it is as little as $230 including shipping for 8 channels of i/o PLUS mic pres if you use the Behringer ADA8200 or as much as $1400 for the Ferrofish A16 mk2's 16 channels of i/o(no pres). if you sell the firewire device, you can make the extra cost near a net of zero. the advantage is fully routable i/o that has zero latency in and out of the XITE and minimal latency to and from the sequencer. if you monitor inside Scope instead of inside the sequencer, it means ZERO latency punch-ins and monitoring and ZERO latency integration of hardware, even going in and out of the XITE several times(for instance from a synth into Scope using Scope plugins then back out to rack mounted or stompbox fx then back into the XITE then into the sequencer).

yes, it works well with Live, but Scope plugins are NOT computer plugins. there are external hardware, as far as the computer is concerned. there is a mode called XTC mode that allows Scope devices to be used as vsts, but it severely cripples what the system can do, and it is not available in 64bit windows.

[zerocrossing]

Heres a list of some : http://sonic-core.net/joomla.soniccore/ ... 28&lang=us

With reviews on the 'Sonic Core' tab here : http://www.hitfoundry.com/scope/

The reason all are not listed ? Probably because there literally are too many. The lists above dont even touch on the mixers, or Modular.

Polyphony ? Depends on too many factors not known until runtime - sample rate, type of synthesis, how many DSP on your hardware (full XITE vs XITE-1D vs PCI card varieties), what else is running in you project and how many SAT connections they are using, use of manual assignment etc etc....

If you look here http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_09/syn_mast.htm under 'Scope Setup and Synths' - I was running 9 synths with a total of 35 poly on the XITE-1D at @44 or 48 KHz and that used 1/2 the DSP (with no manual DSP assignments). All the synths shown there on the left are bundled (except Prodyssey? - not sure), the 4 optional ones are listed on the right.

Thanks, that's the exact information I was looking for. I know polyphony is impossible to predict with any accuracy, but that real life account is enough for me.

When put like that, it's a good deal. I'm not sure why Sonic Core isn't more up front with what's included. Now I just have to ask myself if it's the deal for me. What would go? What would stay? I could keep a bunch of analogs and ditch the Prophet 12, or keep the analogs and ditch the 12. (Which is also a great master keyboard) I'll have to play around with it in my head a bit and see if it makes sense.

[dante]

When put like that, it's a good deal. I'm not sure why Sonic Core isn't more up front with what's included.

Coz they know we got it covered here in 'Z' and ScopeRise

Now I just have to ask myself if it's the deal for me. What would go? What would stay? I could keep a bunch of analogs and ditch the Prophet 12, or keep the analogs and ditch the 12. (Which is also a great master keyboard) I'll have to play around with it in my head a bit and see if it makes sense.

If it was me - I'd keep the Pro12, being hybrid (digital oscs and analog filters?) it still has some analog goodness and you could feed it into the 'D' inputs for mixing w/ Scope synths. Then you'd have a great master keyboard for Scope synths.

[dawman]

XITE-1 is a great live mixer/FX/Modular synth enviroment.
I am looking into using ScopeSync from SDK Guys on this forum where I can use custom oscillators while controlling a Eurorack system of LFOs EGs and Filters.
I will make Modulus 002 sound thin.

With so many audio sources to choose from the XITE-1 becomes the ultimate power synth.
People are noticing how powerful these new synths using digital oscillators are.
I'll kick it up a notch by having any sound I want as an Oscillator plus the 94 Scope Modular Oscillators loadable as presets.

The analog Eurorack will be capable of multi LFOs w/ 4 x EGs and quad VCFs.

So the XITE-1 is much more than people know.

Every few years we discover how incredible this design still is.

[garyb]

as strictly an audio tool, the XITE-1 is a good value. sound quality rivals the best hardware. of course, hardware compressors and consoles are better, assuming that they are top level professional, and/or possibly vintage gear, but the XITE is very close to that quality. most people here on these boards use Scope mainly for synthesis, but for producing pro studio tracks, you would have to spend tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve the same audio quality. two 15dsp PCI cards used to cost about $4200 on the street. the XITE-1 has a couple of very high quality pres and three to five of those 15 dsp cards worth of power. it should be usable for at least 20 years, just like the PCI cards have been. it really is a very fair price, and it's not expensive when it's usefulness is accounted for, assuming that you are at least a semi-serious user of audio tools and synthesis.

i became involved with Scope for my personal studio, with my first audio computer taking over for my 2" 24 track Scully reel-to-reel. that's when i really became productive. i still have my hardware, two racks of gear, some really cool stuff, Urei, Orban, dBx 165, Valley Gatex, ADA, Deltalab, SPX, Dep5, Lexicon LXP15, etc. most of my hardware came out of real, working studios that made stuff for sale, radio and television including the modified Soundcraft 1600(some $17-20.000 in 1985)

Soundcraft1600.jpg (900.39 KiB) Viewed 2952 times

the console is a patchbay, control room volume knob and mic pres, the outboard is mostly unused. the Scope stuff is that good.

[zerocrossing]

one nice thing about Scope is that you can integrate the world inside the computer and the real world outside the computer in realtime using Scope as the hub...

no, you would not want to use the firewire interface. the Scope interface of the XITE is superior anyway. as far as extra cost, it is as little as $230 including shipping for 8 channels of i/o PLUS mic pres if you use the Behringer ADA8200 or as much as $1400 for the Ferrofish A16 mk2's 16 channels of i/o(no pres). if you sell the firewire device, you can make the extra cost near a net of zero. the advantage is fully routable i/o that has zero latency in and out of the XITE and minimal latency to and from the sequencer. if you monitor inside Scope instead of inside the sequencer, it means ZERO latency punch-ins and monitoring and ZERO latency integration of hardware, even going in and out of the XITE several times(for instance from a synth into Scope using Scope plugins then back out to rack mounted or stompbox fx then back into the XITE then into the sequencer).

yes, it works well with Live, but Scope plugins are NOT computer plugins. there are external hardware, as far as the computer is concerned. there is a mode called XTC mode that allows Scope devices to be used as vsts, but it severely cripples what the system can do, and it is not available in 64bit windows.

I wouldn't mind ditching my Presonus. It's decent, but truth be told it's what I could afford at the time. I needed something with a lot of analog inputs. My weird workflow demands it if I have a lot of instruments... which I do. A patch bay would be too clumsy and a digitally switched patchbay would have incurred similar cost to the Presonus.

So, I do get that Scope is "external hardware," and the zero latency i/o is a nice perk, almost worth the price of admission, but from time to time I do like to automate things. Mostly what I do is create an audio loop in Live's Looper, or Mobiüs and apply some sort of effect on it that's being automated by a long clip. So imagine I play a 2 bar loop. It starts repeating and sounds unprocessed, but gradually over time it can become almost unrecognizable. I can also lower the feedback of the loop so as the original content is fading, I'm adding new content in. Very Fripp/Eno kind of stuff. Of course, I can still do this type of thing, but I imagine it can also be done within Scope, no? I imagine that instead of an insert effect on a track I'd have to put Scope in a send/return track... I guess I'm falling off the bridge before I come to it.

[zerocrossing]

When put like that, it's a good deal. I'm not sure why Sonic Core isn't more up front with what's included.

Coz they know we got it covered here in 'Z' and ScopeRise

Now I just have to ask myself if it's the deal for me. What would go? What would stay? I could keep a bunch of analogs and ditch the Prophet 12, or keep the analogs and ditch the 12. (Which is also a great master keyboard) I'll have to play around with it in my head a bit and see if it makes sense.

If it was me - I'd keep the Pro12, being hybrid (digital oscs and analog filters?) it still has some analog goodness and you could feed it into the 'D' inputs for mixing w/ Scope synths. Then you'd have a great master keyboard for Scope synths.

Heh, maybe Sonic Core should hire one of you to do it's marketing. You've all been super helpful. A big selling point is a good user community, that's for sure. If you go to a retailer's site like JRR Shop and read their blurb about XITE-1, it's very sort of vague. Also, it seems like Sonic Core is super stingy with demo tracks and when they're there they use a Flash player. I'm a UI designer so I'm in Flash a lot for mockups, but it sure isn't great for the iOS users.

(sorry for the rambling, I'm thinking this through)

I hear you about the Prophet 12. It does indeed have analog filters, the latest Curtis ships DSI has been using since the 08. They're... let's just say they've got a lot of character, but no one would call them "juicy." They sure aren't the Prophet 6's filters, that's for sure (which sound lovely). Sometimes I love them, sometimes not. The 12's analog style waveforms are kind of buzzy in a bad way and while this is totally avoidable by keeping a close eye on the filter, it can be really harsh, though they do fatten up really nicely with a bit of "drive" applied to them. The digital waveforms are actually very nice, and the morphing is well done (you can choose three waveforms and morph between them) but there's not a ton of them. I know it seems like I'm painting a bad picture of the 12, but in all honesty, I had it boxed up and ready to go back twice in the first week of owning it. It took a while to "get it." Where it really shines is in NIN types of sounds where it seems like it might be being powered by some steam engine or nuclear reactor that's going critical. Of course it can do warm and sweet wavetables as well, but so can software synths like Tone2's Electra 2. It does also have a fantastic modulation system. Best I've ever experienced in hardware, and really fluid to use. They completely nailed the interface.

So, part of me thinks that I can probably achieve the above in software like Solaris. Is Zarg Music's Solaris a software John Bowen Solaris? Because if it is... that's almost reason alone to get an XITE-1. Or this type of digital osc-feedback modulation-o-rama thing can be easily made in the modular plug in... (are the modulars polyphonic?)

My analogs... mentally they seem harder to part with... not that I have anything particularly great:

ATC-X QFS (just a great sounding analog, and those four filters make it really flexible)
Neptune 2 (in love with it's audio rate modulated filter tone)
Pulse 2 (great multimode filter, very nice oscs and the best modulation matrix of anything I own)
Analog Four (more than the some of it's parts, very nice effects section and parameter sequencer)
Bass Station 2 (So good! So cheap!)

But last night I was listening to a Model D vs Minimax comparison and a Prophet 5 vs Scope Prophet 5, and while they were not 1:1 emulations, it was clear they sounded fantastic and probably good enough to replace my babies with little tears shed. Of course, I could probably milk things so that I could keep the Prophet 12 and one of the analogs as well... maybe two. That way I wouldn't feel as naked. I'm totally aware that 90% of my trepidation is based on some weird hardware security blanket. When you own a synth for a while it becomes kind of totemic... like some weird amulet of power.

[zerocrossing]

I heard there are some chipset configurations that have known issues with the XITE-1. I've got a garden variety Dell XPS i7 machine running Windows 10 64 bit. A quick Google search didn't reveal any problems but I'd like to make sure.

[jksuperstar]

I think that was an issue with PCI based cards, not the PCIe based XITE-1/XITE-1D.

One thing I am in the midst of (I mention it since you are an experimental guitarist): Hacking a Behringer ADA8000 to have a 13pin input, so each string of my 5-string bass is available as audio. This works on my bass, but requires some EQ since it's a bridge pick up. However, piping that ADAT signal into my XITE, I can have a different preamp on every string...or something completely different, like reserving the low 2 strings as bass, and the upper 3 are mangled into synth sounds using the S|C Modular. I'm working on assigning a few areas of the fretboard to trigger sequences, or possibly control Live's Buffer Shuffler that I've captured a loop of the lower 2 strings in. This takes some time to learn modular in & out, but there's so much that is possible once that is done.

[zerocrossing]

I think that was an issue with PCI based cards, not the PCIe based XITE-1/XITE-1D.

One thing I am in the midst of (I mention it since you are an experimental guitarist): Hacking a Behringer ADA8000 to have a 13pin input, so each string of my 5-string bass is available as audio. This works on my bass, but requires some EQ since it's a bridge pick up. However, piping that ADAT signal into my XITE, I can have a different preamp on every string...or something completely different, like reserving the low 2 strings as bass, and the upper 3 are mangled into synth sounds using the S|C Modular. I'm working on assigning a few areas of the fretboard to trigger sequences, or possibly control Live's Buffer Shuffler that I've captured a loop of the lower 2 strings in. This takes some time to learn modular in & out, but there's so much that is possible once that is done.

Oh that does indeed sound interesting. Have you tried maybe installing a hex pickup? I don't know about them in relation to bass pickups, but a friend of mine has this system for guitar which he built.

http://www.matthiasgrob.org/pParad/WhyP ... rtion.html

I also found this while searching for that link:

http://www.spicetone.com/products/6appe ... e-shipping

Seems very cool and with a modded hex pickup of some sort you could do this type of thing on bass as well.

[garyb]

I wouldn't mind ditching my Presonus. It's decent, but truth be told it's what I could afford at the time. I needed something with a lot of analog inputs. My weird workflow demands it if I have a lot of instruments... which I do. A patch bay would be too clumsy and a digitally switched patchbay would have incurred similar cost to the Presonus.

So, I do get that Scope is "external hardware," and the zero latency i/o is a nice perk, almost worth the price of admission, but from time to time I do like to automate things. Mostly what I do is create an audio loop in Live's Looper, or Mobiüs and apply some sort of effect on it that's being automated by a long clip. So imagine I play a 2 bar loop. It starts repeating and sounds unprocessed, but gradually over time it can become almost unrecognizable. I can also lower the feedback of the loop so as the original content is fading, I'm adding new content in. Very Fripp/Eno kind of stuff. Of course, I can still do this type of thing, but I imagine it can also be done within Scope, no? I imagine that instead of an insert effect on a track I'd have to put Scope in a send/return track... I guess I'm falling off the bridge before I come to it.

yeah, Live is best for manipulating the clip itself, then it can leave Live on it's own ASIO channel into Scope to be mangled in many, many ways....

[jksuperstar]

Regarding live/scope integration, I use the lowest latency setting at higher sample rates, and get about 1ms latency. So the scope -> live -> live.looper / buffler shuffler / etc -> scope still sounds "realtime" enough. In fact, the lowest buffer setting for Live for plugin-plugin buffering is 32 samples anyways, so really, it's seamless.

[Mr Arkadin]

I heard there are some chipset configurations that have known issues with the XITE-1. I've got a garden variety Dell XPS i7 machine running Windows 10 64 bit. A quick Google search didn't reveal any problems but I'd like to make sure.

I had an issue with an X99 motherboard. I have a thread on it in the Problem Solving section. Anyway I tried three other versions of that board and none worked. I tried a Z79 and it worked instantly, so I'm betting there's some issue with the X99 design or BIOS. The point is older and tried and tested is better than the latest whizz bang offering.

[dante]

So, part of me thinks that I can probably achieve the above in software like Solaris. Is Zarg Music's Solaris a software John Bowen Solaris? Because if it is... that's almost reason alone to get an XITE-1.

Other way around. The soft Solaris was implemented on Scope PCI, then built into hardware morphed into a much more powerful beast. Solaris for XITE has never been built, although the PCI version will work with limitations (preset change speed, poly) on XITE. Theres also Solaris Core, stripped down version. Ive built some presets for Solaris & Core that work smoother on XITE but some 'presets should work out of the box' kinda guys think if it wasnt designed for XITE why bother.

On the other hand if you're considering hardware Solaris go here to get Dawman perspectives:
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_11/sol_mast.htm
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_24/sol_mast.htm
He tours using Solaris and XITE-1 together live.

Or this type of digital osc-feedback modulation-o-rama thing can be easily made in the modular plug in... (are the modulars polyphonic?)

Modular patches can be built polyphonic or monophonic - whatever you like. Not sure about paraphonic (modular guys?)

[jksuperstar]

Modular is so far beyond polyphonic vs. paraphonic. Each module in a patch can be deemed monophonic or polyphonic. So you could even have "inverse paraphonic"...a monophonic oscillator with a polyphony of filters, envelopes, and effects!!

[zerocrossing]

So, part of me thinks that I can probably achieve the above in software like Solaris. Is Zarg Music's Solaris a software John Bowen Solaris? Because if it is... that's almost reason alone to get an XITE-1.

Other way around. The soft Solaris was implemented on Scope PCI, then built into hardware morphed into a much more powerful beast. Solaris for XITE has never been built, although the PCI version will work with limitations (preset change speed, poly) on XITE. Theres also Solaris Core, stripped down version. Ive built some presets for Solaris & Core that work smoother on XITE but some 'presets should work out of the box' kinda guys think if it wasnt designed for XITE why bother.

On the other hand if you're considering hardware Solaris go here to get Dawman perspectives:
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_11/sol_mast.htm
http://www.hitfoundry.com/issue_24/sol_mast.htm
He tours using Solaris and XITE-1 together live.

Or this type of digital osc-feedback modulation-o-rama thing can be easily made in the modular plug in... (are the modulars polyphonic?)

Modular patches can be built polyphonic or monophonic - whatever you like. Not sure about paraphonic (modular guys?)

Yes, that makes sense that buying a $2500 box with $300 worth of software isn't going to land you the equivalent of a $5200 synthesizer. Still, some demos of the software one do sound pretty good. I'm no way considering a Solaris though. If I were pro and making money off it, sure, but as more of a failed-pro-happily-turned-hobbiest, I'm happy with cheaper instruments.

[zerocrossing]

as far as extra cost, it is as little as $230 including shipping for 8 channels of i/o PLUS mic pres if you use the Behringer ADA8200

I'm thinking I probably do need something like this. What's the concensus? If I'm just going to put a CD player (Numark Axis 9), Synthesizer (Neptune 2) and an iPad into something, this would be fine?

[zerocrossing]

as far as extra cost, it is as little as $230 including shipping for 8 channels of i/o PLUS mic pres if you use the Behringer ADA8200

I'm thinking I probably do need something like this. What's the concensus? If I'm just going to put a CD player (Numark Axis 9), Synthesizer (Neptune 2) and an iPad into something, this would be fine?

I also see there's an ADA8000. Considering I don't need mic pres, would this be acceptable? Funny, I just saw a ADA8000 vs Lynx Aurora 16 and I kind of thought the Behringer sounded a bit more "open." (listening to mp3s though via an old MacBook)

Would I need anything more than one of the ADAs?