Scope 6 does not exist

[tlaskows]

Yes, young people are crazy. I have some nephews and they cannot live without their iPhones, iPad, Nintendos, etc. When I was a small kid all I had was a small set of lego

Oh, I'm 36 and love old music. The Beatles, Cream. All good stuff

-Tom

[dante]

Well, in the 60's I had Mechano and Airfix. No TV, so I had to go to another schoolboys house to watch The Beatles cartoon series and Voyage To The Bottom of the Sea.

[JoPo]

Jo, i agree. i never said that young people aren't cool.
i said that sometimes they pretend to know things that they don't, when they post on the internet.

money is money. it's not bad, it just is what is is. only a top level bank can make money out of nothing and then use it to achieve it's goals.

the cool things that katano would like are the reason that work started on v6. control protocols and new functions need new programming libraries. once v6 is done, then there should be money for other things. it should have been completed already, but the plans of mice and men...

at least v5.1 works with windows 10, so Scope hardware will be usable for quite some time to come.

of course new stuff is cool!!!

Now, we agree... I'd just like SC sales more stuff ! Taking on one guy to work on marketing to sale 7 or 8 xites a month to pay his salory and a new developer salory to build Scope 6 faster.. As you said, once v6 is done, money will enter, new projects are possible, but do not forget to fix bugs and make updates ! It's never ending in software ! This is the advantage, but also the inconvenience with hardware : you can correct technology very fast in the software code but you MUST correct it when bugs are found, otherwise, you lost what makes the sofware advantage.
I'm aware it's easy to say all of that and certainly much harder to DO all of my fantastic ideas... For sure, if I would be in Holger place, I would think differently... Especialy with the last 20 years of story (Creamware, SC .... etc ...).
But I remember that when STS series was releasing, STS format was almost a standard ! Software like CDxtract integrated STS format !

I know v5.1 works but there is so old bugs ! I'm not a developer and I'm wondering if it would be fast (now, I hope it's too late : Scope 6 is almost done (?)) to release a 5.1.1 version with some too boring bug fixed, such as midi control assignment or else and then go back on Scope 6... But this is a question that only developers would be able to answer.

I wanted to say, also, that I was wrong (it must be due to age): I do not have 47 yet but still 46 for some months.

[enantiodromia]

I have a suggestion:
What if S|C set up something on their site, to make it possible to donate? How many of us are there here on Z? All the ones that complain about scope not having this or that, or that this needs to be fixed, etc, you would be able to make a difference here. If we contributed $10 a month each, which is really not a lot individually, even if 100 people did it, that would be $1000 that month to help S|C bring to reality what everyone is complaining about. Instead of bitching, we can help. If not, then please stop whining, those of you that do. If you really love S|C, you'll want to help them bring this to fruition.

+1 completely agree

i would pay right now for scope 6 update if it helps to develop it faster

* we understand the real issue here is money so sonic core let the community help , we want to

[enantiodromia]

we can change the problem to be an opportunity for all of us to do something about the platform we love

more $ means faster delivery



can i ask where scope 6 right now in development and how much +-$ approximately they need to finish it?

[JoPo]

?? How Scope 6 be released faster just with more money ?? Money doesn't code !

If you want to build a software faster, you need one more developer to work on it.. And a developer takes a salory, if he is engineer, he takes, let's say euh... At least 3000€ / month. And he is not going to work only one month ! Are you ready to pay ?

If you want SC to have one more developer, SC needs to sale products ! If everybody on Z gives 10€, maybe you'll get half a month salory after one or 2 months by asking to every body. Or maybe you can pay the entire salory ?? This is the partner solution : SC works with rich people/company to develope Scope and share profit when money comes. If this hasn't been done yet, there must be good reasons, I guess ; even if I don't know the reasons. But I'm sure Holger from SC has already thought about that solution.

[tlaskows]

Yeah, I don't think this is a good idea at all.

DSP developers are very expensive!

-Tom

[yayajohn]

Seems to me that buying more plugs or hardware from SC would benefit them more than a few dollars in donations.
Ask yourself if there is a SC plug that does the job for you in a pro audio fashion before you spend money on that VST fancy gui plug.
But if you feel like you need to donate to a good cause then you can always send money to Planet Z or sharc and Will for their BC Modular/Scope Sync endeavors.

[katano]

why not start a kickstarter project or similar?

[dante]

The problem with receiving money - any money - is expectation. Money is rarely free unless for charity. But any business, kickstarter or privately funded, needs to do business plans and stick to deadlines and explaining what is being developed.

You now OWE someone - something !

Holger may not know exactly himself what can be delivered and when - there has already been setback with 3rd party GUI library. Imagine if he had taken on a whole bunch of cash and promised in return all those lovely Juce / QT gui devices - then to find they dont work after cash spent !

Oh , sorry guys who gave me thousand$ - it does work ! I have to start again !

Not a good look, and not a good feeling when you are trying to keep the platform alive and feed some family at the same time - not with other peoples cash !

[tlaskows]

Yeah, things like kickstarter is only good for new products. Something that people are interested in putting money into to make it happen. I'll start a kickstarted to make me rich so I can buy 25 Xites! just joking. I am happy with my cards.

-Tom

[JoPo]

The problem with receiving money - any money - is expectation. Money is rarely free unless for charity. But any business, kickstarter or privately funded, needs to do business plans and stick to deadlines and explaining what is being developed.

I agree totaly. If Holger or SC want to keep independant and find more money for SC, the only way I see is to sale products. SC products are strong, I'm sure there is a lot of people that would be interested by them, the only missing thing is to tell them 'hey ! Don't you know Scope on Xite-1 ?' ! Look at that !

Thru video, audio magazine, forums, internet, a full time job.

If any interested in audio guy would see what I do with my Xite-1 + my pci cards, he would be crazy ! Each channels have fx processor, there is 4 reverbs (and NOT BAD ones) + 3 modular patch and 1 Pro-Wave in my actual project + 24 asio + my JV2080 & Supernova coming in via analog inputs... Which hardware on the audio market can so that exept SC stuff ?
Scope should be the purchase goal of 70% of people like us : guys who make music nowadays... If they just knew what is Scope and SC hardware.... They would start to save money and eat potatoes for some months...

[tlaskows]

Well, it's not hard to put videos on YouTube, but what exactly should we be showing off? I don't think anyone cares. People were whining on UA forums how they want a synth, so I posted an old demo from about 10 years ago of the Pro-12 (that's what it was called back then). Not even 1 comment! And these are the people that care about good sound (or at least care that their stuff sounds like it was recorded in the 60s)

-Tom

[dante]

Exactly. Im sure SC have explored those avenues to the max. They stopped showing at NAMM for a couple of years now. What does that tell you ? Simple. The cost and time of putting on those shows outweighs return sales. I know, since I once setup a stand at PC show in 90th. It costs a fortune for the stand and travelling, and even though you may get a hundred enquiries at stand and nominated for 2 awards (best New software Release, best Australian Product) and great press coverage (Aus PC Mag) that may not be enough to translate into more than a few sales at best.

You need MASSIVE $$ resources to advertise effectively. EG the backing of a far bigger company than S|C, of which the only option (if even available in reality) may be to sell out the entire product rights and loose total control of the product which may never see the light of day again in any recognisable form that we know and love.

These are market realities.

[hubird]

Yet some videos showing how it works would be of enormous importance regarding those who are visiting the site and don't know the product.
You even don't need a voice, spare text should suffice.
First text line: 'let's build a new studio', etc., all the way up to playing a Scope synth via your Daw.
You must visualise the thing to show how easy it is.
And some sound samples with A/B-ing listening of PsyQ and other plug-ins can't be too difficult to organise, you can build it up slowly.
At least it'd show they're alife.

[enantiodromia]

?? How Scope 6 be released faster just with more money ?? Money doesn't code !

If you want to build a software faster, you need one more developer to work on it.. And a developer takes a salory, if he is engineer, he takes, let's say euh... At least 3000€ / month. And he is not going to work only one month ! Are you ready to pay ?

If you want SC to have one more developer, SC needs to sale products ! If everybody on Z gives 10€, maybe you'll get half a month salory after one or 2 months by asking to every body. Or maybe you can pay the entire salory ?? This is the partner solution : SC works with rich people/company to develope Scope and share profit when money comes. If this hasn't been done yet, there must be good reasons, I guess ; even if I don't know the reasons. But I'm sure Holger from SC has already thought about that solution.

you contradict yourself when you say money wont make it faster but hiring more people will - , its obvious money will make it faster. and not only for hiring more people but to release Holger from other\former duties

do you think Holger works only on scope 6 ? i dont sure but i know more money could definitely help him make more time for the project

they dont have to sell anything new, they can give discounts for plugs or something in those lines it will be more then enough ,and lets say 50% off scope 6 when it comes ,

overall im just saying if we can make the 2 years to be 1 year of waiting ill be more than happy to help the only problem is as Dante said are the expectations which we all have anyway..

[faxinadu]

what's up with the condensending tone towards costumers gary? :0 maybe you forget people spent upwards of a few thousand dollars on this system? the least someone who speaks for sonic core can be is a bit apologetic i think no?

[garyb]

whatever. i'm only being real about what is and is not possible.
i am not promising things that cannot be promised.
i am also NOT SonicCore when i am here.
i became part of the Scope community as a user, became a seller because i thought the product was really cool, and became involved with SonicCore because i had been involved with Scope for so long.

i am speaking as a user, here. a user with a minimum of inside info and knowledge of the history of things.
see all my posts? it's not because i worked for SC, in fact, most of my posts are from BEFORE SC even existed.

as an SC employee, OF COURSE i am VERY sorry that things can't happen sooner, but NEVER am i condescending. it's hard to read tone over the internet. you might find my manner condescending, but i might find it to be helpful and friendly. it depends on how you read what i wrote and understand my idiom. i am from Southern California and i live in the hood. that said, Scope delivers on its promises as a whole. it works. could it be better? of course! does the fact that it could be better mean that it sucks and that people are being ripped off? not in my personal opinion...

by the way, is the customer always right?
customers like to be told this, but in fact, sometimes the customer is wrong and he is wrong for reasons that are not subjective, but are absolute. still, i wouldn't want to be rude to such a customer, but to make him happy, i might have to change his mind, something that is probably impossible. so, even if the customer is wrong, businesses often smile. sometimes they say "get out of my store", too. look, i don't want you to think i am attacking, so i will put a smiley face.

[garyb]

anyway, big whoop if v6 isn't ready!
v5.1 works in Windows 10. it is still quite usable.
Linux and OSX versions would be great, of course!
64bit STS samplers would be awesome!
i totally want more awesome control protocols! really!!!
i want a small PCIe card for $1000 or less!
i want madi support for the XITEs!
i want new devices and i want more users!
i want people to enjoy what Scope can do and become more involved in music production and audio, and have Scope be a big part of that because i think it would be awesome!

i want that user base that i was a part of in the founding of,(actually i was in the second wave or probably 5 or 6 waves v1.2 or so) to be the cool group of helpful people who also made cool devices for fun because they loved audio devices! i want them to help new users expand their expectations about what is possible.

yep, that's a big part of who i am and why i post here. i'm just like y'all. i have learned from others in this very forum.

i do think that some are losing focus on what we all do actually have, which is something so beyond special, but is hard to see how special it is because it's everyday life. when i think that, as i am free to do, i speak my mind, as i am wont to do.

[dante]

I'd say GaryB has been extremely patient in the face of the negativity on show here, given his knowledge of the reality of the situation, which isnt anything that SC need to apologise for - given experience in the software industry.

There are only 2 opposing forces in operation here :

#1 Holger's single minded effort to keep the platform alive in some shape or form.
#2 Economic realities.

Thats it.

No need to complicate things further.