Outputs from balanced I/O very hot! Scope PCI

[tlaskows]

I just hooked up balanced cables to my monitors. The levels were fine with unbalanced with around -10dB on the mixer, now even with -30dB it's very loud. The volume on the monitors is set to pretty low, but I guess I can try setting it lower.

Is this normal?

Thanks,

-Tom

[garyb]

yes.
in the audio world, there is a consumer and a pro standard for the level of 0db.
the numbers aren't exact, because it's not a law or anything, but generally, everyone uses the same voltage as 0db.
balanced connections are usually at the pro level, since pros are usually the only ones who use balanced connections. almost every consumer device uses an unbalanced connection.

your monitors may have a switch for +4 or -20(-10 is the same as -20, just a slightly different standard)
otherwise, lower the gain on the inputs of the monitor.

[tlaskows]

Thanks for the explanation Gary.

I just checked and there's no swich

I'll turn down the volume tomorrow. It's getting late

Thanks,

-Tom

[tlaskows]

My volume on my monitors is pretty low. I don't wanna go too low so I ordered this:

http://www.tcelectronic.com/level-pilot/

Should do the job and allow me to set the Scope mixer at 0dB.

I don't have an analog console BTW.

-Tom

[garyb]

yes, that should work.
just understand that 0db is NOT some particular level of loudness. each device is calibrated a bit differently. this is why old analog gear had adjustable meters...

[tlaskows]

Well, ideally we want the mixer to output at 0dB thought, right? Otherwise we're losing bits of resolution, no?

Thanks,

-Tom

[garyb]

not exactly.
so what if you lose a little resolution? if your audio is 24bit, you would need to have a VERY low level before the resolution would be lower than in a CD.

you do want to keep levels up, but....

0db is about the maximum voltage that allows the system to remain undistorted(in the digital world, that's a virtual thing). there are many places that level can be optimized. ultimately, it's a compromise between all of the steps in any chain. the speaks should be turned down to the point that full volume on the mixer is full volume on the speaks. in any case, there should be a control room level for monitoring, which should not be the level of the final mix. this is why the STS2448 and 4896 have control room outs. all hardware recording consoles have a level for the output to the monitors(the control room, which is where the engineer is) and also a master out for the mix itself. this way you can turn down the speakers without turning down the mix. the hardware volume knob you ordered is fine for this purpose. it's good to have something you can touch, so you can turn the speaks up and down as you please, especially if you get a bad surprise...

worrying about a small loss of resolution is a big waste of time, especially when the monitoring environment(your room) is hardly optimized. just use the generally best setup that you can, and don't worry about it.

[tlaskows]

I see what you're saying. With 24 bit you have a lot of headroom... I was always recording my mic and guitar very hot...

I use Sonar to do the mixing. I don't send Sonar tracks to the Scope environment. I do it the other way, Send synth outputs to Sonar through ASIO. Am I doing it wrong? Going off topic, oops.

-Tom

[garyb]

super hot recording levels are for analog recording on tape.
you should be between 1/2 ro 3/4 of the scale with digital, assuming 24bit recording.

mixing in Scope or Sonar is your choice. Scope probably sounds better, but Sonar is easier.

[tlaskows]

I will lower my levels for future recording. I usually work at 44.1 at 24 bit. I prefer the easy way out lol so Sonar mixing it is. Scope sounds great, even after all these years! My newest card is 10 years old.

Thanks Gary. You're always helpful.

-Tom

[ronnie]

I found a nice recording.pdf from back in 2002 with some nice routing examples in the Project Pane showing connections back and forth between Scope and native DAWs. While the native stuff has changed since then the under the hood Scope routings have withstood the test of time! I thought it might be useful. Please see the posting here:

http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=33577

and let me know if I should pursue putting up more of them, I think I have the whole set of them.

Uploaded to DropBox in English, French and German:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x7gndps10vke ... -YCpa?dl=0

[dawman]

Maybe since you don't use an external desk, an Expression pedal with some SapceF CC2x2's, and CC2's can move faders or groups of faders in lots of ways which beats using a mouse.

It also allows modifiers and lag/speed, start and target variations so each fader can start at a chosen level, and end at a chosen level, or just have them all at the same levels.

I just got around to testing a new stereo stage monitor with a Sub, and have -6db with expression pulled back, then pushing forward it lands @ 0db for parts needing a boost or solo work.


adult photo sharing

[tlaskows]

ronnie,

Thanks for the upload. It looks like I was doing things the proper way. I just don't mix in Scope, so I don't use ASIO sources.

dawman,

I don't really need real time hands on control. I don't do live work. I just mess with stuff in my basement

I have a Korg M3 with 8 faders that could be assigned to do various things. I also do have an expression pedal. But I mostly do stuff one track at a time, pretty basic stuff.

Thanks,

-Tom

[ronnie]

Maybe since you don't use an external desk, an Expression pedal with some SapceF CC2x2's, and CC2's can move faders or groups of faders in lots of ways which beats using a mouse.

It also allows modifiers and lag/speed, start and target variations so each fader can start at a chosen level, and end at a chosen level, or just have them all at the same levels.

Great info!

[garyb]

I prefer the easy way out lol so Sonar mixing it is.
Thanks Gary. You're always helpful.

-Tom

that's another reason not to stress a minor loss of resolution.

[dawman]

I use them fro Hammond B3 Drawbar Emulations and one of the Master Fader.
If you ever want to get that slow down from fast grind while drawbars swell as in Steppenwolfs' "The Pusher", let me know, be happy to help, even post a project for download and trial.
The devices are free and the B 2003 is OK, but I prefer VB3/Melda MRotary and Multiband Saturator as I can cop all Hammond styles and sounds using that combination of Native plugs.

Peters BX5 also is a great gain leveler to use for controlling high end distortion too.

[dante]

Just got the B3T Rack Extension for $35. Good value, but I still prefer Selig B3 for Rotor Speed control

B3T

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