Hi all
I could finally found a PowerMac G4 that has OS9 and was thinking of grtting it to run my set of Creamware cards.
Unfortunately the processor is only 400 Mhz...
Would this be a problem?
Since the cards havetheir own DSP, I was hoping this wouldn't be a problem, but would like to be sure of it...
Thanks in advance,
Best
Paulo
Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
i produced music on a PII 450 mhz equipped with 36 dsp of creamware cards, so the cpu is not a problem for scope itself.
I don't know the reason you want to run it on mac as it is not supported.
I run a secondary pc with the older scope cards and it is ok to use scope as i would do with any outboard.
I don't know the reason you want to run it on mac as it is not supported.
I run a secondary pc with the older scope cards and it is ok to use scope as i would do with any outboard.
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hubird
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
Your G4 should work 
It's the sequencer you use which will run out of power soon.
The fastest option for multiple cards is a Quicksilver G4.
Later models don't have enough space for the STDM plugs, as the power supply box is just in the way.
I got mine for 100 euro, including a 19# TFT...
As djmicron points out you could use two macs (or an extra pc for that matter), but you have to use an adat PCI interface.
They are cheap today, if you find one (I have a RME one to sell).
It's the sequencer you use which will run out of power soon.
The fastest option for multiple cards is a Quicksilver G4.
Later models don't have enough space for the STDM plugs, as the power supply box is just in the way.
I got mine for 100 euro, including a 19# TFT...
As djmicron points out you could use two macs (or an extra pc for that matter), but you have to use an adat PCI interface.
They are cheap today, if you find one (I have a RME one to sell).
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sunmachine
- Posts: 477
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:37 am
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
Yeah, I'm too using my old Pentium PC for the SCOPE cards that are connected via ADAT to my MacBook Pro and a tc Impact Twin audio interface.
There are no hard drives in the PC, just an 8 GB (or was it 16?) compact flash card with Windows XP.
Most of the time I'm using CopperLan to send MIDI between Studio One on the Mac and SCOPE on the PC over Ethernet.
There are no hard drives in the PC, just an 8 GB (or was it 16?) compact flash card with Windows XP.
Most of the time I'm using CopperLan to send MIDI between Studio One on the Mac and SCOPE on the PC over Ethernet.
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
Thanks a lot for your replies
I will get the Mac tomorrow, really looking forward to use the cards
The main reason why I chose this solution is that the Scope versions I have with my cards are old versions (4 and 4.5) and without using it for a while, I think there is no point in spending money to get the latest software.
I also have a Korg Oasys PCI, which I can only use fully in a PowerMac with OS9, so I thought this would be the best plan, especially cause a PowerMac G4 isn't too expensive.
I ended up getting another Pulsar card, so I'll end up using a system with a Pulsar I, Korg Oasys PCI and a SCSI card, and another system with 2 Pulsar II, a Pulsar Booster and a SCSI card too.
Hope the seller of the new PowerMac G4 can help me fix OS9 in the one I had from before to do it this way, as I guess the extra Scope system would be useful for FX processing (even with 4 DSPs it should be interesting enough, right?).
Hope tomorrow I'll have it working
I will get the Mac tomorrow, really looking forward to use the cards
The main reason why I chose this solution is that the Scope versions I have with my cards are old versions (4 and 4.5) and without using it for a while, I think there is no point in spending money to get the latest software.
I also have a Korg Oasys PCI, which I can only use fully in a PowerMac with OS9, so I thought this would be the best plan, especially cause a PowerMac G4 isn't too expensive.
I ended up getting another Pulsar card, so I'll end up using a system with a Pulsar I, Korg Oasys PCI and a SCSI card, and another system with 2 Pulsar II, a Pulsar Booster and a SCSI card too.
Hope the seller of the new PowerMac G4 can help me fix OS9 in the one I had from before to do it this way, as I guess the extra Scope system would be useful for FX processing (even with 4 DSPs it should be interesting enough, right?).
Hope tomorrow I'll have it working
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
In order to avoid having another post...
If I have my Pulsar I installed, can I use it as a MIDI interface for the Korg Oasys PCI?
Just noticed now that one doesn't have MIDI... it has been stored for too long that I didn't remember that... :S
If I have my Pulsar I installed, can I use it as a MIDI interface for the Korg Oasys PCI?
Just noticed now that one doesn't have MIDI... it has been stored for too long that I didn't remember that... :S
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
you can route midi internally, if i remember right with my old mac there is an utility called oms, or you can use a sequencer.
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hubird
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
Indeed, for Midi you'll need Opcode's OMS.
Find vs 9.9.2.
OMS was ''third party'', and can be a hassel to keep working right after making changes, at least I had troubles with it every now and then
Find vs 9.9.2.
OMS was ''third party'', and can be a hassel to keep working right after making changes, at least I had troubles with it every now and then
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
But I have always been told that MAC just works flawlessly - Could this really be the only one exception? 
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hubird
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
hehe 
but seriously, OMS was always the trouble maker.
When I came on planetz I was asking myself why are those pc audio folks talking so much about 'drivers', it was an unknown concept for me as a mac user.
The 'Creamware audio driver' should be in exactly the right Opcode OMS folder, and there where 3 OMS files spread over several system, Cubase or other folders, something a mac user never had to bother with with 'normal' mac programs.
'Driver not seen' was driving me crazy sometimes, and I never got really grip on it, reinstalling Cubase and OMS often was the only option, after trying to replace the three or four files in the right folders with the back uped ones.
The whole thing was an odd man out, if that's the right expression.
Astroman could explain better what was the background for the stupid OMS phenomenon on mac, but Tom looks to be too bussy these days...
Steve never made a good own solution for it, on OS9 at least.
OSX was a gods gift to me, as I'm not a tech guy.
Anyway, it's really the truth, a lot of the usual problem sources typical for Windows just couldn't happen on a mac, just because of the OS design.
'Registration' problems (trashing a program on mac was just that), IRQ problems just didn't exist, 'hyperthreading' idem, all those typical pc problems one could find never ending in our problem forum just didn't exist on OS9, I can't help
But indeed, the radical change by Apple to PCIe only made my cards obsolate, a decisive point of no return, I admit
but seriously, OMS was always the trouble maker.
When I came on planetz I was asking myself why are those pc audio folks talking so much about 'drivers', it was an unknown concept for me as a mac user.
The 'Creamware audio driver' should be in exactly the right Opcode OMS folder, and there where 3 OMS files spread over several system, Cubase or other folders, something a mac user never had to bother with with 'normal' mac programs.
'Driver not seen' was driving me crazy sometimes, and I never got really grip on it, reinstalling Cubase and OMS often was the only option, after trying to replace the three or four files in the right folders with the back uped ones.
The whole thing was an odd man out, if that's the right expression.
Astroman could explain better what was the background for the stupid OMS phenomenon on mac, but Tom looks to be too bussy these days...
Steve never made a good own solution for it, on OS9 at least.
OSX was a gods gift to me, as I'm not a tech guy.
Anyway, it's really the truth, a lot of the usual problem sources typical for Windows just couldn't happen on a mac, just because of the OS design.
'Registration' problems (trashing a program on mac was just that), IRQ problems just didn't exist, 'hyperthreading' idem, all those typical pc problems one could find never ending in our problem forum just didn't exist on OS9, I can't help
But indeed, the radical change by Apple to PCIe only made my cards obsolate, a decisive point of no return, I admit
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
OSX and OS9 are completely different animals.
OSX is just a repackaged PC OS. it's as bad as windows in many ways, worse is some and better in some. the main reason you don't have the kinds of issues that PC users have is simply because those parts of OSX are locked down out of sight. it's a matter of opinion whether that is a good or a bad thing.
MacOS was a special thing, never to be seen again, all in the name of profits...
ultimately, a computer is a computer. if it's set up properly and is made of good parts and all the files are in order, it will work flawlessly(relatively). it's just another machine.
OSX is just a repackaged PC OS. it's as bad as windows in many ways, worse is some and better in some. the main reason you don't have the kinds of issues that PC users have is simply because those parts of OSX are locked down out of sight. it's a matter of opinion whether that is a good or a bad thing.
MacOS was a special thing, never to be seen again, all in the name of profits...
ultimately, a computer is a computer. if it's set up properly and is made of good parts and all the files are in order, it will work flawlessly(relatively). it's just another machine.
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Bud Weiser
- Posts: 2687
- Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:29 am
- Location: nowhere land
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
Maybe a MOTU MidiTimePiece (II) and "Free MIDI" (free from MOTU site) helps.hubird wrote:Indeed, for Midi you'll need Opcode's OMS.
Find vs 9.9.2.
OMS was ''third party'', and can be a hassel to keep working right after making changes, at least I had troubles with it every now and then
I used that w/ Mac G3 266MHz (still have 2 and a PB G3 Lombard), Emagic Logic 4.8 and Sounddiver 3.05 and MacOS 9.2.1.
I also ran the 2nd G3 w/ Opcode Studio64X, Studio Vision and Galaxy + Editors w/ same OS and OMS and never had real issues.
For an old Mac G4 dual GigabyteEthernet I´m using a small Emagic MT-4 (2-In / 4-Out) USB MIDI interface,- same for PB G4 DVI,- both OSX 10.4.11.
Works pretty good.
I tested this MIDI interface also w/ my G3 Lombard which doest offer any serial port for MIDI interfaces and it works too in MacOS 9.2.1 w/ Emagic software.
When your Mac doesn´t offer serial ports, USB only, OS X might be better for MIDI than MacOS,- but for MacOS buy you a Keyspan USA 28XB USB>dual MiniDIN8 serial adapter which works for MIDI too.
Bud
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hubird
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
I was talking about old OS9, but ok.garyb wrote:OSX and OS9 are completely different animals.
OSX is just a repackaged PC OS. it's as bad as windows in many ways, worse is some and better in some. the main reason you don't have the kinds of issues that PC users have is simply because those parts of OSX are locked down out of sight. it's a matter of opinion whether that is a good or a bad thing.
MacOS was a special thing, never to be seen again, all in the name of profits...
ultimately, a computer is a computer. if it's set up properly and is made of good parts and all the files are in order, it will work flawlessly(relatively). it's just another machine.
On several levels Windows/pc always was and is behind, except processor power at some point.
OS Communication, organisation, presentation, integration with hw, OS updating care...
A computer is not a computer, it is that only 'ultimately'.
A lot of folks here still wanne stay on XP...and you know why.
And your clients are damn glad you often do the pc installing for them...
Like Red Muse/Adern once said about Vista: not in years Windows will come even close to OSX (tho he hated Apple for certain policies).
Quote:
'if it's set up properly and is made of good parts and all the files are in order, it will work flawlessly'
Exactly
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
i stopped using apple after os7 as i brought very expensive gear and mac went pci and dropped all support
and digidesign stopped support for the older sd2 as it used the old midi program data and digidesign could not be bothered to make it backwards compatible
so after this i stopped using macs and supporting then i have seen them do this to protools customers to thousands of pounds for dsp cards
i have seen studio,s buy the nubus cards then the pci then the pcix then the pcie as mac changed there comps
at least pc leave legacy ports in so us scope pci users who brought pci cards in 2000 can still use them in newer computers today
my favorite software was workbench 3 for amiga and it was multitasking back in the early 90,s
but mac just does upgrades so they are always making money and make earlier stuff obsolete
thats why i like scope as at least sonic core are making everything backwards compatible for us
mac and digidesign are only money making machines they dont care about old customers just what they can get out of new
and today a mac is a pc as its built using the same parts but charge you £3-4000 when you can build a hackintosh for £1000 with the same spec parts
as i have built a few for customers
i did like os7 and still use my sound tools and sd2 for my EII and EIII and mirage
and digidesign stopped support for the older sd2 as it used the old midi program data and digidesign could not be bothered to make it backwards compatible
so after this i stopped using macs and supporting then i have seen them do this to protools customers to thousands of pounds for dsp cards
i have seen studio,s buy the nubus cards then the pci then the pcix then the pcie as mac changed there comps
at least pc leave legacy ports in so us scope pci users who brought pci cards in 2000 can still use them in newer computers today
my favorite software was workbench 3 for amiga and it was multitasking back in the early 90,s
but mac just does upgrades so they are always making money and make earlier stuff obsolete
thats why i like scope as at least sonic core are making everything backwards compatible for us
mac and digidesign are only money making machines they dont care about old customers just what they can get out of new
and today a mac is a pc as its built using the same parts but charge you £3-4000 when you can build a hackintosh for £1000 with the same spec parts
as i have built a few for customers
i did like os7 and still use my sound tools and sd2 for my EII and EIII and mirage
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
hubird wrote:I was talking about old OS9, but ok.garyb wrote:OSX and OS9 are completely different animals.
OSX is just a repackaged PC OS. it's as bad as windows in many ways, worse is some and better in some. the main reason you don't have the kinds of issues that PC users have is simply because those parts of OSX are locked down out of sight. it's a matter of opinion whether that is a good or a bad thing.
MacOS was a special thing, never to be seen again, all in the name of profits...
ultimately, a computer is a computer. if it's set up properly and is made of good parts and all the files are in order, it will work flawlessly(relatively). it's just another machine.
On several levels Windows/pc always was and is behind, except processor power at some point.
OS Communication, organisation, presentation, integration with hw, OS updating care...
A computer is not a computer, it is that only 'ultimately'.
A lot of folks here still wanne stay on XP...and you know why.
And your clients are damn glad you often do the pc installing for them...
Like Red Muse/Adern once said about Vista: not in years Windows will come even close to OSX (tho he hated Apple for certain policies).
Quote:
'if it's set up properly and is made of good parts and all the files are in order, it will work flawlessly'
Exactly
I guess that is why W7 scales better in any Audiorelated tests.Latency trackcount etc...
http://www.dawbench.com/win7-v-osx-1.htm
Re: Want o use Scope on a Power Mac - Some questions
i have used OSX and win7 and win8.
they all work about the same. i would stay in XP only because i don't have time to upgrade or deal with product incompatibilities. there are a number of pieces of software i just don't want to reinstall. if i built a new machine, i'd use win8 in an instant. it works fine. if i had a Mac, i'd use it.
yes, the PC takes a bit more fiddling with, but it doesn't lock you out of software or settings, either. i've installed software in OSX, it's not really that much different than installing in OSX. please do not fear either one.
the original MacOS was VERY different though. just copy a folder or files into a folder and you're done. actually get a virus or have a file get corrupted? just copy a folder to the HD and overwrite the old one. fixed. that's why the original MacOS was immune to virii. OSX is somethiong different. it's just Unix, an old PC OS. it's just as bloated and troublesome as Windows, but Apple does an excellent job hiding that from the user. that doesn't mean that i wouldn't use it, if Apple would allow it to run on a PC(there's no reason it won't except for the dongle chip that is on Apple's motherboards). current Macs and PCs are identical hardware.
it's just a machine.
they all work about the same. i would stay in XP only because i don't have time to upgrade or deal with product incompatibilities. there are a number of pieces of software i just don't want to reinstall. if i built a new machine, i'd use win8 in an instant. it works fine. if i had a Mac, i'd use it.
yes, the PC takes a bit more fiddling with, but it doesn't lock you out of software or settings, either. i've installed software in OSX, it's not really that much different than installing in OSX. please do not fear either one.
the original MacOS was VERY different though. just copy a folder or files into a folder and you're done. actually get a virus or have a file get corrupted? just copy a folder to the HD and overwrite the old one. fixed. that's why the original MacOS was immune to virii. OSX is somethiong different. it's just Unix, an old PC OS. it's just as bloated and troublesome as Windows, but Apple does an excellent job hiding that from the user. that doesn't mean that i wouldn't use it, if Apple would allow it to run on a PC(there's no reason it won't except for the dongle chip that is on Apple's motherboards). current Macs and PCs are identical hardware.
it's just a machine.