After reading the post about customs charges and posting a response asking are there anymore places even in europe, thats your local music store where we can buy dsp cards and the like. The answer was they are drying up even in europe. This is a problem, THIS IS THE PROBLEM to the continued survial of this product. How can we hope to hook new people onto this product if they cant go down to the local store and see this product in action. What is sonik core doing about this problem, are they doing anything about this problem. If not then it is only a matter of time before sonik core/creamware cards are obsolete. I love my creamware/sonikcore stuff(i don't even know what to call this stuff anymore). I am a loyal customer and in the future will want more product but the head.... of ordering it over the internet and risking courier's is bullshit. I'm a futureist and if i cant eventualy get physical distribution down in australia i know that i am going to have to defect to UAD. Mainly because i belive in the extra grunt dsp power. The problem with this is that they lack flexability of the scope fusion platform and mainly run an emulation program. The native effect package that comes with the pulsar is amongst the best that i have ever known. As for choice of synths i know that the UAD has some but not the scope of scope. I demand sonikcore make this their first priority. Phyisical Distribution.
Sorry no peace and love this time boys and girls
Get off your fat ass's SonikCore and fix this problem
We need physical distrubution
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Sounddesigner
- Posts: 1063
- Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:06 pm
While i agree it would be nice if SCOPE where in more stores i think we have to see what Sonic Core does with Platform 5 before assuming anything cause Magazines/More Stores/etc may be their intent. I think alot of stores who already sell the SCOPE Products are out now and waiting on Sonic Core for a shipment, it was like that a few months back and may still be.
hi,
I think the problem come from shops rather from soniccore.
A scope demo daw need a good demonstrator, first, and a lot of shop don't want to deal with product that implies a lot of support after the trade, and obviously, if you put a scope board to a newb, you will have 333 requests from the guy the following month, saying there is no info anywhere else, saying the thing don't work or simply calling each time he get a pci overflow.
third, shops sucks and always play the "it's new, so it's better" game, and prefer sell gear marked "Cubase 8 compatible".
If you propose 10 year old gear saying there is nothing better, your customer will reply you "hey, why did you sell me last year this 248 buttons with blue LCD roland arranger that sound like a shame compared to this one ?!"
it's a "dilemme".
I think it's better to buy directly from SC, so your bucks will go directly to those who do the real job.
I think the problem come from shops rather from soniccore.
A scope demo daw need a good demonstrator, first, and a lot of shop don't want to deal with product that implies a lot of support after the trade, and obviously, if you put a scope board to a newb, you will have 333 requests from the guy the following month, saying there is no info anywhere else, saying the thing don't work or simply calling each time he get a pci overflow.
third, shops sucks and always play the "it's new, so it's better" game, and prefer sell gear marked "Cubase 8 compatible".
If you propose 10 year old gear saying there is nothing better, your customer will reply you "hey, why did you sell me last year this 248 buttons with blue LCD roland arranger that sound like a shame compared to this one ?!"
it's a "dilemme".
I think it's better to buy directly from SC, so your bucks will go directly to those who do the real job.
Given the massive mark-ups that music gear distributors and retailers have in New Zealand (and Australia I believe) even if there was a local agent I would probably buy from a reliable online retailer that will ship internationally (as I have done for years).
Actually, now I think of it - my very first Pulsar 1 card was actually 'living' in the retail shop in New Zealand for probably about 5 years. They never knew how to sell it (or what it even did I think). I bought it off a guy who worked there who was basically given it. Then he couldn't figure out whether it would work in XP (which was the state of the Creamware web-site at the time), so he sold it to me.
I think at that point I discovered PlanetZ and all was clear!
Actually, now I think of it - my very first Pulsar 1 card was actually 'living' in the retail shop in New Zealand for probably about 5 years. They never knew how to sell it (or what it even did I think). I bought it off a guy who worked there who was basically given it. Then he couldn't figure out whether it would work in XP (which was the state of the Creamware web-site at the time), so he sold it to me.
I think at that point I discovered PlanetZ and all was clear!
This is an interesting subject. I've previously thought that relatively widespread distribution was a must for selling Audio hardware, but if you look at the success Elektron have had with very few Music shops dealing in/selling their hardware, then it would seem not to be the case necessarily. As far as I know, they've produced 1000+ units of each of their machines since they first built the SidStation & they have sold out in every case. That's at least 5000-6000 units sold not counting any re-runs they've done (they at least did a re-run of SidStations). I guess their gear is just really in demand, but it's still not too bad for a relatively small company who mostly sell direct from their website.
Either way, I'm sure Sonic Core know what's best for their business.
Either way, I'm sure Sonic Core know what's best for their business.
My personnal feeling about it, from here in France.
I used to spend time in music instrument shop for quite a few years now. The first situation was that you'd better go to Paris to get some good price for this type of thing. Buying to local dealer was meaning higher price. Then thing change to get everything on the same level of price which was a good thing as you had easier local contact.
I had a retailer here in the near where I hardly bought everything I had because they provided support and usefull advice (which leads me to enhance my setup with great unit I am still using like the Yamaha VL70m or the clavia micromodular) . This was in the pre-internet/DSL era.
Now this shop has closed for two years. It is still possible to find some shops for musical instruments but no real advice (or not the type of advice I am waiting for).
The last new units I bought were ordered through internet and most of them come from german online shops (Thomann & Musicstore). This was the place where I bought my first Creamware Unit (Luna Card and NOAH Ex).
Thanks to the support provided by forum like PlanetZ (or other for different gears) I still can find most of the information I need.
The latest units arrived here just came from forum purchase offer or Ebay.
I just feel things change through time but I kind of miss the interactive human contact I could find in a good local shop.
I was only able to show the features available with Scope to 2 of my friends but none of them get onto the platform so far.
My two cents to the discussion.
CheerZ
I used to spend time in music instrument shop for quite a few years now. The first situation was that you'd better go to Paris to get some good price for this type of thing. Buying to local dealer was meaning higher price. Then thing change to get everything on the same level of price which was a good thing as you had easier local contact.
I had a retailer here in the near where I hardly bought everything I had because they provided support and usefull advice (which leads me to enhance my setup with great unit I am still using like the Yamaha VL70m or the clavia micromodular) . This was in the pre-internet/DSL era.
Now this shop has closed for two years. It is still possible to find some shops for musical instruments but no real advice (or not the type of advice I am waiting for).
The last new units I bought were ordered through internet and most of them come from german online shops (Thomann & Musicstore). This was the place where I bought my first Creamware Unit (Luna Card and NOAH Ex).
Thanks to the support provided by forum like PlanetZ (or other for different gears) I still can find most of the information I need.
The latest units arrived here just came from forum purchase offer or Ebay.
I just feel things change through time but I kind of miss the interactive human contact I could find in a good local shop.
I was only able to show the features available with Scope to 2 of my friends but none of them get onto the platform so far.
My two cents to the discussion.
CheerZ
my 2 euros from France too :
I do believe that internet is incresingly changing the "home studio" market. Considering the huge number of items and the arrival of new products I tend to think that except for a host of audio/music products (guitars, accosutic pianos, ...) Internet is becoming THE store : many local stores have closed their door in Montpellier where I live. Why ? Because they became test areas (people just try and buy the item on the Internet, cheaper !).
I am part of those who trust the (good) reviews from pro magazines and users before purchasing. I have bought my creamware/soniccore stuff from jrrshop (my first board) and Thomann, plus ebay for the 2d hand stuff. And like many other things I am really happy. You can become just better than a mere seller that simply cannot know - in a comprhensive way - all the brands and all the gear ! Of course there are some good sellers (only few really in France / Paris) that worth the extra money and then it is a matter of philosophy. I have dropped the idea I could "save" the retailers and i am sorry for that. Fate takes the blame. Now, I just give my money to the good audio websites (thomann and jrrshop are my favourites !), those with a good support, period. I am about to fill my API 500 lunchbox (a BAE in fact) and I can tell you that even small audio companies (La Chapell, A-designs, DAV, ...) offer a very good support and they can give you the closest seller even if there are no local distributor of their products, which is often the case for this category ! That does not bother me at all ....
What about Soniccore ? It is not a matter of distributor for me. As soon as they will give the right software, the raight hardware at the right time... they will keep their current users and aim at a new market. I think it is time !
Just my 2 euros of course
Jo
I do believe that internet is incresingly changing the "home studio" market. Considering the huge number of items and the arrival of new products I tend to think that except for a host of audio/music products (guitars, accosutic pianos, ...) Internet is becoming THE store : many local stores have closed their door in Montpellier where I live. Why ? Because they became test areas (people just try and buy the item on the Internet, cheaper !).
I am part of those who trust the (good) reviews from pro magazines and users before purchasing. I have bought my creamware/soniccore stuff from jrrshop (my first board) and Thomann, plus ebay for the 2d hand stuff. And like many other things I am really happy. You can become just better than a mere seller that simply cannot know - in a comprhensive way - all the brands and all the gear ! Of course there are some good sellers (only few really in France / Paris) that worth the extra money and then it is a matter of philosophy. I have dropped the idea I could "save" the retailers and i am sorry for that. Fate takes the blame. Now, I just give my money to the good audio websites (thomann and jrrshop are my favourites !), those with a good support, period. I am about to fill my API 500 lunchbox (a BAE in fact) and I can tell you that even small audio companies (La Chapell, A-designs, DAV, ...) offer a very good support and they can give you the closest seller even if there are no local distributor of their products, which is often the case for this category ! That does not bother me at all ....
What about Soniccore ? It is not a matter of distributor for me. As soon as they will give the right software, the raight hardware at the right time... they will keep their current users and aim at a new market. I think it is time !
Just my 2 euros of course
Jo
this is an excellent example, Shroomz - worth a deeper look<Shroomz> wrote:... if you look at the success Elektron have had with very few Music shops dealing in/selling their hardware, then it would seem not to be the case necessarily. As far as I know, they've produced 1000+ units of each of their machines since they first built the SidStation & they have sold out in every case. ...
the SidStation hit the market at the exactly right point when that retro 80s thing was rolling, and what could represent it better than the C64 with it's cutting noise ?
it's a zero support product, just program changes and a few tweaks of the mini-synth which was typically used in experimental context anyway
the most expensive part of the SidStation were it's case and shipping, there's less than $30 worth of electronics inside
of course this one trick pony has it's acoustic justification of existence - and the approach to market is strategically valid either, anytime such an 'opportunity' will show up...
but it couldn't be farther away from what SonicCore is trying to achieve.
on the other hand I (sadly) have to agree with Jo that current margins don't allow local distributors to fully support products like Scope anymore.
Scope is multitudes more complex by nature but even worse - the environment in runs in (sequencer and DAW operating system) adds another degree of complexity.
the typical customer doesn't care (or think about it) - he or she bought a Scope system, so everything that comes along as an inconvenience is deduced to exactly that aquisition.
We know it from dozens of complaints here, which at some point turn out to be a bad choice of PC hardware, a messed OS installation, changes within the sequencer software etc... nevertheless it always starts with a big 'Scope sux'...
back to the topic about physical presence of a selling supporter - it's a nogo imho.
It would only be possible in special service oriented kind of market, but then again the 'typical' customer of a Scope system isn't the one to spend business $$$ on education and support.
Plan B would be a completely independant, integrated system with it's own hardware, recording and midi processing.
Imho feasible from a pure technical point of view (though highly demanding...), it would most likely still collide with already established workflows and as such not meet the required 'critical mass' to turn into a profitable enterprise.
Nothing really new, but food for thought anyway...
cheers, Tom
As long as influential dealers don't say: "Fuck off, as long as you don't take care for the old stuff."bill3107 wrote:What about Soniccore ? It is not a matter of distributor for me. As soon as they will give the right software, the raight hardware at the right time... they will keep their current users and aim at a new market. I think it is time !
Great Disscusion So Far Guys
Great disscusion so far guys, a lot of opinions. I've just visted a psycologist and apparently i'm a little paranoid but only a little what i mean buy that i still don't trust the internet with my bucks. What i love is to be able to walk into my local shop and part with my bucks and take my product home there and then if it has to come halfway round the world as it does for me, you get the drift. There was a post about how you have to go larger music store dealers for a better price for this product and this is true. We only ever had 2 to 3 specialist music stores that stocked this product anyway, I think we need to go back to the drawing board for this product, and this is another topic alltogether what does soniccore plan to do with this product. Do they for example have a clear plan of attack? are there new cards coming? will there be upgrade prices? as in the past. For example i had purchesed two luna cards and in a promotional offer i traded one luna card in for a pulsar 2 card and i was allowed to keep my old card. Maybe that's what sent them broke. The next big question then has to be asked, are they (sonikcore) just after a quick buck by preying on us and selling us drivers and a few new synths. I mean did they pick up Creamware for a song and just floging whats left. I still maintain the best way forward for a company like this is to keep it private, they maintain a majority of the company but sell ordinary shares to loyal users, so that they get a large injection of cash, that way they have research and devolpment cash or advertising cash. The company has to diverseafy, i spose like the whole music market must now.
Peace and Love Jarvis
Peace and Love Jarvis
SonicCore is not just a couple of guys who thought they'd pick Scope up because it was cheap(it was, relatively). Holger and Jurgen are from the original programming team, Scope is their baby. they intend to continue it's growth.
i'd happily sell you whatever you need. you have to trust someone....
there are no promises in life, nothing is for sure, but we can still do our best.
i'd happily sell you whatever you need. you have to trust someone....
there are no promises in life, nothing is for sure, but we can still do our best.
Thanks garyb
Hey you are right you do have to trust someone, it's not that i am attacking the guys at soniccore, it's just that i have been a loyal customer for some 6 odd years and yes it's been a while since i actually bought somthing from the company(i'm very poor at the moment getting my audio engineering degree) in the future though i know i will want more of this product(i havent even upgraded from scope 3.1)but when soniccore 5 comes out the upgrade will be my first priority, the whole head.... of having first to download 4.5, then download 5 buy new vista drivers. There just has to be an easier way. Like walking down to the local shop and buying the upgrade. As to my other sugestion we as soniccore owners need greater input into this company, i think is a true one(i spose like ceaser i want to storm into rome and rebel against the evil empire of the senate)(as ihave said in previous posts pro tools is evil and we eventualy if not already have a better product we just need to let the rest of the audio world know this) The germans are the great innovators of our time, the autobhan, V2 Rocket, LsD just to name a few. The v2 rocket is the perfect example and anology to what i am talking about, whilst the v2 rocket worked it had no rader, so it acutaly did not hit the target to well, just like soniccore the platform is way more advanced than pro tools but a lot more diffucult to navigate to make it work, if we get more money into the company, so it could advertise, distribute or build new cards(because lets face it folks, even though i want to storm the senate it would be like a phalenx against the legion) we can build a corperate empire that would rival pro tools. We need to diversify and compete otherwise we are throwing money for old rope. And yes i know creamware tried to diversify with the advent of the Noha which sent them broke. I though that product was brilliant i only whish i had the money to buy the high end of this product, this could have been the future of live synth and effects processing but it bombed just like the v2 rocket. It was too advanced for it's time. I also know that we have the klang box and the emulator boxes and i think that they are selling well but i'm behing creamwares original vision which was a band in the box. Abeit wether it was a card that you installed yourself or the Noha.
Peace and Love if you want it Jarvis
Peace and Love if you want it Jarvis
you don't need to go through all that.
if you buy 5.0, you'll just need to download that(like the rest of us) and order the keys. it's not really something that a shop can do, although a good shop can help you out by doing the emailing and downloading for you, for a fee....
i'm just passing along info, trying to ease confusion....i hope you do get product in local shops soon. distribution is a difficult thing for a small company, but it sure makes the product more attractive and easier to deal with!
one thing i disagree with is that Scope is harder to operate and deal with than protools. actually, most people have never even seen protools, it's only used by real engineers for the most part. protools le is not protools.
real protools is about $40,000, it's on dsp chips, and you're right, in many ways Scope is more advanced. ProTools HD, the real application, has in advantage to Scope only a dedicated sequencer and a dedicated hardware controller. the sequecer is not really an advantage, i like being able to use any sequencer i want to, the hardware controller would be nice(maybe v5 would have full mackie control for everything!), but what i can get dsp-wise for $2000 compared to what i would get for $40,000 makes Scope a no-brainer even if they NEVER make a new card. good sound is always good sound. 
that said, i'm sure that a new card is inevitable, assuming that the company continues. remember, these are NOT the same guys that ran Creamware, they are the guys that programed the chips and made the platform. Scope is not harder to operate or setup than Protools HD, it's competitor. M-boxes are not Scope's competition(except in price ).
if you buy 5.0, you'll just need to download that(like the rest of us) and order the keys. it's not really something that a shop can do, although a good shop can help you out by doing the emailing and downloading for you, for a fee....
i'm just passing along info, trying to ease confusion....i hope you do get product in local shops soon. distribution is a difficult thing for a small company, but it sure makes the product more attractive and easier to deal with!
one thing i disagree with is that Scope is harder to operate and deal with than protools. actually, most people have never even seen protools, it's only used by real engineers for the most part. protools le is not protools.
real protools is about $40,000, it's on dsp chips, and you're right, in many ways Scope is more advanced. ProTools HD, the real application, has in advantage to Scope only a dedicated sequencer and a dedicated hardware controller. the sequecer is not really an advantage, i like being able to use any sequencer i want to, the hardware controller would be nice(maybe v5 would have full mackie control for everything!), but what i can get dsp-wise for $2000 compared to what i would get for $40,000 makes Scope a no-brainer even if they NEVER make a new card. good sound is always good sound. that said, i'm sure that a new card is inevitable, assuming that the company continues. remember, these are NOT the same guys that ran Creamware, they are the guys that programed the chips and made the platform. Scope is not harder to operate or setup than Protools HD, it's competitor. M-boxes are not Scope's competition(except in price ).-
hubird
Re: Thanks garyb
you put some things on one line here...Jarvis wrote:The germans are the great innovators of our time,[...]The v2 rocket is the perfect example and anology to what i am talking about, whilst the v2 rocket worked it had no rader, so it acutaly did not hit the target to well, just like soniccore the platform is way more advanced than pro tools but a lot more diffucult to navigate to make it work,[...]
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hubird