This may be discussed somewhere else, so before you flame me, I'm sorry if I posted this superfluously.
I've already expressed my concerns about the need for a 64 bit Vista driver for the Scope platform, but something else just occured to me; SonicCore are charging money for Scope 5.0 and the updated drivers. Fine, I can live with them charging money for an updated version of the *software*, but am I right in assuming that they will not release a free-of-charge Vista *driver* for Scope 4.0 users? And if so, will they also not release an updated Windows XP driver for people who want to use Cubase 4.1?
What other company do you know of that charges money for *drivers*?
If anyone has anything relevant to add or if there has been an official statement from SonicCore, I would be most grateful if you posted it here.
I'm going to upgrade to 5.0 in either case, but I expect there are a lot of people who don't want to pay almost €200 to get an updated driver. Personally, I think it's appalling. If this turns out to be correct, I intend to voice my sincere protest to SonicCore about this, and I would expect every other Scope user to do the same.
Cheers!
SonicCore charging money for a *driver*?
SonicCore charging money for a *driver*?
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
I imagine they will sweeten the deal with some free plugins, but anyway you have to realise that programming costs money because programmers need to eat. The way I see it, it's either a paid supported platform or a dead platform. I think it's normal in a professional line of work to support the company with which you invested a lot of money for tools so that they don't die. You paid Microsoft for the new OS right? I don't think Scope users have *ever* been charged for a software update (4.5 was free if you didn't want any new plugs) so at v5 I don't think it's such a huge deal.
Having said all this I may not upgrade as I don't need a Vista driver (I don't intend to ever deal with that OS), but if there are new features or fixes in the Scope environment I will definitely pay my 200eu. I'd do the same if I needed the Vista driver.
Having said all this I may not upgrade as I don't need a Vista driver (I don't intend to ever deal with that OS), but if there are new features or fixes in the Scope environment I will definitely pay my 200eu. I'd do the same if I needed the Vista driver.
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hubird
Well, first of all, they *did* charge money for the Scope 3.0 upgrade, then they released 4.0 free to everyone, even to those who *did* pay for 3.0, so in essence it was pointless for me to pay for 3.0 since I could've just waited and gotten 4.0 for free. There was no new functionality in 3.0 that I needed at the time, really. Only a driver upgrade for running Scope in Windows XP.
I did say that I think charging for the new *software* is perfectly fine. Being a developer of sorts myself, I agree that the work of developers definitely should be respected. What I don't like is that they would release a new piece of software for Vista, and then not release a driver to use the *old* version of the software on Vista. I think 200 euro is quite a sum for just a driver upgrade. At the very least, they could make available a driver-only upgrade at a reduced cost, with which people could still use Scope 4.0 in Vista, or even a stripped-down version of the 5.0 software *without* any plug-in's which would allow them to at least *use* the cards in Vista, without having to pay for an entirely new software version that they may not need.
My point is, when I bought the cards I bought the hardware as well as the software. One is useless without the other. SonicCore should do their best to make sure that the hardware always has a minimal level of usability without users having to pay huge fees for software upgrades. A minimalistic routing software, which would allow you to utilise the inputs/outputs of the cards but nothing more, is also a perfectly viable solution. That way, people wouldn't need to pay for something which they do not need.
As I've already stated, the Scope platform is the ideal A/D-D/A environment for me. I don't use the DSP effects. I would be perfectly fine with using Scope 4.0 in Vista, so long as there was a driver to allow me to use it.
Now, there might be serious hurdles in development that makes Vista support in 4.0 impossible even with a new driver, but if that is so, I would expect any customer-aware company to explain that and at least *try* to rationalise the ludicrous upgrade fee for Scope 5.0.
Cheers!
I did say that I think charging for the new *software* is perfectly fine. Being a developer of sorts myself, I agree that the work of developers definitely should be respected. What I don't like is that they would release a new piece of software for Vista, and then not release a driver to use the *old* version of the software on Vista. I think 200 euro is quite a sum for just a driver upgrade. At the very least, they could make available a driver-only upgrade at a reduced cost, with which people could still use Scope 4.0 in Vista, or even a stripped-down version of the 5.0 software *without* any plug-in's which would allow them to at least *use* the cards in Vista, without having to pay for an entirely new software version that they may not need.
My point is, when I bought the cards I bought the hardware as well as the software. One is useless without the other. SonicCore should do their best to make sure that the hardware always has a minimal level of usability without users having to pay huge fees for software upgrades. A minimalistic routing software, which would allow you to utilise the inputs/outputs of the cards but nothing more, is also a perfectly viable solution. That way, people wouldn't need to pay for something which they do not need.
As I've already stated, the Scope platform is the ideal A/D-D/A environment for me. I don't use the DSP effects. I would be perfectly fine with using Scope 4.0 in Vista, so long as there was a driver to allow me to use it.
Now, there might be serious hurdles in development that makes Vista support in 4.0 impossible even with a new driver, but if that is so, I would expect any customer-aware company to explain that and at least *try* to rationalise the ludicrous upgrade fee for Scope 5.0.
Cheers!
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
-
hubird
creative thinking, but a real war would be their partdragonfly wrote: SonicCore should do their best to make sure that the hardware always has a minimal level of usability without users having to pay huge fees for software upgrades. A minimalistic routing software, which would allow you to utilise the inputs/outputs of the cards but nothing more, is also a perfectly viable solution.
I know people with 4.5 don't have to pay. I have 4.0.garyb wrote:you don't have to upgrade.
if you have 4.5, you don't have to pay.
calm down.
And I'm perfectly calm. I might be annoyed, but I'm calm.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
1 x Scope Project, 2 x Scope Home, 1 x A16 Ultra, 1 x Luna 2496 I/O Box
I never had to pay for an 'upgrade without functions', not even for version 3.
Got it together with Propack or so, which was an excellent deal considering which was included. I got my version 4 keys for free and they allow me to run 4.5 as well - I just lack some additional devices, which I don't need currently
I don't see any reason to run my system on Vista, but if the madness would come over me, I'd just pay for version 5 and receive the missing devices.
Maybe I will need them later ?
this is totally ridiculuous, as a peek over at the history and update pages on the Digidesign site would quickly reveal that $10k entry system from 2000 would have cost you at least 10 grands extra.
Ok, to be honest 10k over 8 years is peanuts - speaking business figures, it's just $100 per month, not even enough to polish yout tax balance... so wtf are you whining about ???
cheers, Tom
sorry, must be the french cheese after midnight...
Got it together with Propack or so, which was an excellent deal considering which was included. I got my version 4 keys for free and they allow me to run 4.5 as well - I just lack some additional devices, which I don't need currently
I don't see any reason to run my system on Vista, but if the madness would come over me, I'd just pay for version 5 and receive the missing devices.
Maybe I will need them later ?
this is totally ridiculuous, as a peek over at the history and update pages on the Digidesign site would quickly reveal that $10k entry system from 2000 would have cost you at least 10 grands extra.
Ok, to be honest 10k over 8 years is peanuts - speaking business figures, it's just $100 per month, not even enough to polish yout tax balance... so wtf are you whining about ???
cheers, Tom
sorry, must be the french cheese after midnight...
-
kensuguro
- Posts: 4434
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: BPM 60 to somewhere around 150
- Contact:
na, all software should be free, and hardware dongles shouldn't exist right?? Art should be FREE!! viva revolution! arrrghhhhh.
No seriously, scope is just like any pro equipment, there are stupid costs associated with it whether you like it or not. Look at it this way, it's much cheaper than the video field where you wouldn't even be able to buy most of the stuff at a personal level, let alone update it. Audio isn't so bad, and within the audio industry, scope upgrades are cheap! Be happy you can maintain it at a personal level. Like darkrezin says, the costs may cover dev costs, and just help the company's existence. Both of which sonic core needs right now.
Remember the days when people actually bought software? Remember when you had to BUY every upgrade? I know it sounds old school and all, but it's kind of like that.
No seriously, scope is just like any pro equipment, there are stupid costs associated with it whether you like it or not. Look at it this way, it's much cheaper than the video field where you wouldn't even be able to buy most of the stuff at a personal level, let alone update it. Audio isn't so bad, and within the audio industry, scope upgrades are cheap! Be happy you can maintain it at a personal level. Like darkrezin says, the costs may cover dev costs, and just help the company's existence. Both of which sonic core needs right now.
Remember the days when people actually bought software? Remember when you had to BUY every upgrade? I know it sounds old school and all, but it's kind of like that.
hmmmm...
I'm not so lonely, so....
some of you say that it's normal to pay for any update, cause Scope is "PRO" gear.
I agree with that, scope boards are pro gear, back in 1997 when Creamware create them.
SFP, especially since the software get a new logo, is a pro software.
But I'm not sure the creamware team is so pro...but maybe they act depending on what they read here: most of their consumers claim that they are HAPPY to pay, and more they are paying, more they claim their gear is "PRO"...It's the job of a seller not to disturb the illusions (or delusion) of their consumers...
sometime all of this become ridiculous..
put here the name of a pro company that can spend about two or three years without doing anything?
the fact is that SC still exist thank to the fidelity of their consumers (and I'm one of them). From my side, I've choosen this behaviour cause I really like the fact that they never compromise the quality of what they do for commercial purpose.
but maybe now, SC is too much convainced that we will follow them in any way.
for the consumer that are happy to pay - yes, now you can say "look at my pro gear, it cost me more than xxxx Euros" - , it's really a great commercial behaviour to make them paying more.
but for the other, here is it a way to thank us of our fidelity?
Creamware decided not to enter the business game of producting new gear each time a new more powerfull DSP is out each year, that's great.
but as we look to the past, we can see that they are mostly guys that are winning bucks on the job they do 10 or 15 years before, no?
I don't want to pay for the development of the klangbox or solaris synth I didn't buy.
And I don't want now to pay them to develop new hardware or software next year, cause I'm sure they won't tell me tomorrow "hey, it's free for you, cause you have already payed last year!"
It's not my job to support the cost of the megalomaniac behaviour of some of creamware boss that have missed a lot of oppurnity to trully develop this system, crying "I don't want to show you my (15 year old) atoms"...
I will keep my boards, for sure, cause the sound that I ear is still making me happy, and this have nothing to see with business, but I will keep my bucks deeply in my pocket...
...unless the sentence "SONIC CORE PLATFORM - BASED on SCOPE" means really that there is something new comin in my face!
hmmm...that remember my expectations when they announce SCOPE 4.5...
...and so a terrific disappointment...
I'm not so lonely, so....
some of you say that it's normal to pay for any update, cause Scope is "PRO" gear.
I agree with that, scope boards are pro gear, back in 1997 when Creamware create them.
SFP, especially since the software get a new logo, is a pro software.
But I'm not sure the creamware team is so pro...but maybe they act depending on what they read here: most of their consumers claim that they are HAPPY to pay, and more they are paying, more they claim their gear is "PRO"...It's the job of a seller not to disturb the illusions (or delusion) of their consumers...
sometime all of this become ridiculous..
put here the name of a pro company that can spend about two or three years without doing anything?
the fact is that SC still exist thank to the fidelity of their consumers (and I'm one of them). From my side, I've choosen this behaviour cause I really like the fact that they never compromise the quality of what they do for commercial purpose.
but maybe now, SC is too much convainced that we will follow them in any way.
for the consumer that are happy to pay - yes, now you can say "look at my pro gear, it cost me more than xxxx Euros" - , it's really a great commercial behaviour to make them paying more.
but for the other, here is it a way to thank us of our fidelity?
Creamware decided not to enter the business game of producting new gear each time a new more powerfull DSP is out each year, that's great.
but as we look to the past, we can see that they are mostly guys that are winning bucks on the job they do 10 or 15 years before, no?
I don't want to pay for the development of the klangbox or solaris synth I didn't buy.
And I don't want now to pay them to develop new hardware or software next year, cause I'm sure they won't tell me tomorrow "hey, it's free for you, cause you have already payed last year!"
It's not my job to support the cost of the megalomaniac behaviour of some of creamware boss that have missed a lot of oppurnity to trully develop this system, crying "I don't want to show you my (15 year old) atoms"...
I will keep my boards, for sure, cause the sound that I ear is still making me happy, and this have nothing to see with business, but I will keep my bucks deeply in my pocket...
...unless the sentence "SONIC CORE PLATFORM - BASED on SCOPE" means really that there is something new comin in my face!
hmmm...that remember my expectations when they announce SCOPE 4.5...
...and so a terrific disappointment...
look vista should also come as free update to xp.
But thats not possible. Because people would ignore such a pack of malware anyways.
They use an intelligent strategy and add a high price tag to a mig-class project and sell it as a new os. Some transparent window here, a useless 3d view there, some new driver architecture here, a bit of tcpa to protect the user from himself there....
and very few new features:
- the "no new filesystem" feature because it was chanceled
- a taskbar clock and auto-web-info download bar. wow
- synthetically created value, by allowing to use directx10 only for vista and not as an xp update.
- ...
and all this salted with the typical ms first time bug-style ...
this buisness idea will work because the majority of humen is stupid and will upgrade or just buy a new pc. through the fact that ms is standard the rest will have to upgrade once the majority has jumped over.
and when you look at other companies: steinberg sells their bugfixing hotpacks as new groundbraking software versions for even more money.
and funnily introduce new bugs in every version to keep users updating.
cheers
But thats not possible. Because people would ignore such a pack of malware anyways.
They use an intelligent strategy and add a high price tag to a mig-class project and sell it as a new os. Some transparent window here, a useless 3d view there, some new driver architecture here, a bit of tcpa to protect the user from himself there....
and very few new features:
- the "no new filesystem" feature because it was chanceled
- a taskbar clock and auto-web-info download bar. wow
- synthetically created value, by allowing to use directx10 only for vista and not as an xp update.
- ...
and all this salted with the typical ms first time bug-style ...
this buisness idea will work because the majority of humen is stupid and will upgrade or just buy a new pc. through the fact that ms is standard the rest will have to upgrade once the majority has jumped over.
and when you look at other companies: steinberg sells their bugfixing hotpacks as new groundbraking software versions for even more money.
and funnily introduce new bugs in every version to keep users updating.
cheers
Last edited by hifiboom on Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: SonicCore charging money for a *driver*?
Well... We have to focus on what the word "drivers" means...dragonfly wrote: What other company do you know of that charges money for *drivers*?
Cheers!
With scope you have the drivers to run the board PLUS several softsynths, several mixers, several effects... etc..
From this point of view I know LOTS of companies that SELL their crappy VST synths, effects etc...
If Soniccore will release a version of the drivers with only the analog and software I-O modules and they will ask some money for that, probably I'll be disapointed, otherwise I'll consider the cost with open mind.
Welcome to the dawning of a new empire
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Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3280
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
So you missed the whole SDK thing then i take it?moxi wrote:
It's not my job to support the cost of the megalomaniac behaviour of some of creamware boss that have missed a lot of oppurnity to trully develop this system, crying "I don't want to show you my (15 year old) atoms"...
It's quite confusing. it seems you want development but don't want to actually give SC your money - bit of a contradiction. Developers have mortgages and kids too.
Hifiboom,
with all my respect, talkin about what do microsoft don't help me to understand what is the way choosen by SC...
all of this is related to what we call "development".
Changing the logo on the top of a software windows is not dev for me.
Adding synth or plug done some years before to a package is not dev, it's simply a regular commercial action you do when you have been fully payed for your programming work "some" year ago.
In fact, I'm mainly disapointed to see that SC is probably trying to extract the last bucks from the pocket of their old consumer, considering them as "things of the past", and doing that to go to another line of product....
Their behaviour let suppose that they want to get enough money to start production of new gear, probably with no compatibilty with our old gear (look at the klangbox or the pluggiattor, why there is no mix possible of this new gear with our beloved boards?)....
let the future show if I'm wrong: but I'm sure that they ask us money now with fake update to produce new boards that won't be compatible, and they will sell them with the same pluggins, but charging people as if they have spend time to produce software too...
it's a cursed circle, as say the well know Ulysse 4 All ....
we are things of the past, guys...
with all my respect, talkin about what do microsoft don't help me to understand what is the way choosen by SC...
It's quite confusing. it seems you want development but don't want to actually give SC your money - bit of a contradiction. Developers have mortgages and kids too.
all of this is related to what we call "development".
Changing the logo on the top of a software windows is not dev for me.
Adding synth or plug done some years before to a package is not dev, it's simply a regular commercial action you do when you have been fully payed for your programming work "some" year ago.
In fact, I'm mainly disapointed to see that SC is probably trying to extract the last bucks from the pocket of their old consumer, considering them as "things of the past", and doing that to go to another line of product....
Their behaviour let suppose that they want to get enough money to start production of new gear, probably with no compatibilty with our old gear (look at the klangbox or the pluggiattor, why there is no mix possible of this new gear with our beloved boards?)....
let the future show if I'm wrong: but I'm sure that they ask us money now with fake update to produce new boards that won't be compatible, and they will sell them with the same pluggins, but charging people as if they have spend time to produce software too...
it's a cursed circle, as say the well know Ulysse 4 All
....we are things of the past, guys...
Hi,
I don't understand all this noise!
For me, Vista driver is an UPGRADE. and any upgrade have always been paid!
Why is it an upgrade? Because when you bought the product, Vista was not there, so the contract you signed with creamware when you bought the product (legal definition of buying a product) was about windows XP.
Now for the microsoft whinner, nobody put a gun on your head to buy microsoft, you was free to buy apple! Hoops forgot it is not possible to use your beloved cards in apple system .... Sell them!
cheers
Michel
I don't understand all this noise!
For me, Vista driver is an UPGRADE. and any upgrade have always been paid!
Why is it an upgrade? Because when you bought the product, Vista was not there, so the contract you signed with creamware when you bought the product (legal definition of buying a product) was about windows XP.
Now for the microsoft whinner, nobody put a gun on your head to buy microsoft, you was free to buy apple! Hoops forgot it is not possible to use your beloved cards in apple system .... Sell them!
cheers
Michel
well, I've had the opportunity to talk to (some of) the guys at Frankfurt Music Fair last year.
It didn't look like they took 'responsibility' for the Scope platform to squeeze the last bucks out of a sinking ship - anyone knows there are easier and more profitable ways to invest your cash
As most users here, they also see the great potential of the architecture.
The team was very small then, but achieved some really good progress and recently it has been enforced significantly afaik.
Most of that programming is not visible to the user of the system, though - just like the processing complexy is hidden behind the routing window and the live bar.
Anyone can read the respective whitepapers at Analog Devices regarding the migration from older Sharcs to recent versions.
Even with general code compatibility, it's not trivial at all - and please don't forget that this isn't an embedded system with fixed functionality and few user interaction but a highly dynamic thing.
But finally the card is almost useless without integrating it into the workstation 'operating system'.
The programming paradigm in that domain has changed tremendously over the last decade.
To make a long story short:
today you use more or less automated generators which produce a lot of overhead, include tons of useless stuff an produce code slow as a snail.
But they can do the trick in almost no time with few 'programmer' interaction.
Of course that's optimized for office and data processing applications, and the OS enviromment is similiarly complex.
This makes things very difficult for a specialized software supplier (like SonicCore) whose main target is beyond the 'standard' market.
I'm a developer myself for almost 20 years and I have studied or used dozens of systems - you wouldn't believe the degree of extra complexity that has been introduced during recent years.
Software giants like M$, Adobe, Apple, Oracle or SAP don't exist for nothing - they are protecting their assets this way by chopping off competition.
I'm pretty sure there are quite a few items in SFP that collide with safety guidlines inherited from office systems and the DRM stuff in VISTA is just a PIA for the developers.
You get the idea ?
There is a ton of sh*t in the OS that has nothing to do with music production, but still has to be served by the developers...
Don't mess SonicCore with Creamware Audio -it's 2 completely different companies
the 'ex-Creamware' developers have not been employed at the company's 2nd incarnation aka 'Creamware Audio' afaik.
They are aware about certain mistakes in company policy.
Imho the SC website reflects the (intended) changes pretty well, it's much more up to date, 3rd parties have more coverage, etc
cheers, Tom
It didn't look like they took 'responsibility' for the Scope platform to squeeze the last bucks out of a sinking ship - anyone knows there are easier and more profitable ways to invest your cash
As most users here, they also see the great potential of the architecture.
The team was very small then, but achieved some really good progress and recently it has been enforced significantly afaik.
Most of that programming is not visible to the user of the system, though - just like the processing complexy is hidden behind the routing window and the live bar.
Anyone can read the respective whitepapers at Analog Devices regarding the migration from older Sharcs to recent versions.
Even with general code compatibility, it's not trivial at all - and please don't forget that this isn't an embedded system with fixed functionality and few user interaction but a highly dynamic thing.
But finally the card is almost useless without integrating it into the workstation 'operating system'.
The programming paradigm in that domain has changed tremendously over the last decade.
To make a long story short:
today you use more or less automated generators which produce a lot of overhead, include tons of useless stuff an produce code slow as a snail.
But they can do the trick in almost no time with few 'programmer' interaction.
Of course that's optimized for office and data processing applications, and the OS enviromment is similiarly complex.
This makes things very difficult for a specialized software supplier (like SonicCore) whose main target is beyond the 'standard' market.
I'm a developer myself for almost 20 years and I have studied or used dozens of systems - you wouldn't believe the degree of extra complexity that has been introduced during recent years.
Software giants like M$, Adobe, Apple, Oracle or SAP don't exist for nothing - they are protecting their assets this way by chopping off competition.
I'm pretty sure there are quite a few items in SFP that collide with safety guidlines inherited from office systems and the DRM stuff in VISTA is just a PIA for the developers.
You get the idea ?
There is a ton of sh*t in the OS that has nothing to do with music production, but still has to be served by the developers...
Don't mess SonicCore with Creamware Audio -it's 2 completely different companies
the 'ex-Creamware' developers have not been employed at the company's 2nd incarnation aka 'Creamware Audio' afaik.
They are aware about certain mistakes in company policy.
Imho the SC website reflects the (intended) changes pretty well, it's much more up to date, 3rd parties have more coverage, etc
cheers, Tom
now, let analyse the way SC communicate:
some days before christmas, they announce a new update, but not for now : "coming soon"
they probably think that we are childrens getting bucks from mummy and puppy at chrismas, and want to be sure we won't spend our bucks in another system, tired as we are to wait for something new...
SC say : "vista compatible"...nothing else...why?
the other company are not affraid to announce what is new in their new software, even if the new soft only get out some weeks or months later..I think it's better when you promote something to directly announce all the improvment, playing with mystery can work one time (that have been done with SFP 4.5)...why they take the risk to let us doubt ? where is the benefit for SC?
Here is no one at SC that can spend one hour to write a log of all the new things we will have with this update?
or maybe being not clear is a way to make us talk and talk, to add at the last moment what we are ready to pay for? I hope...one more time...I hope...one more time...and more I feel myself stupid...
Part two:
now there is two companies..
case 1 : they collaborate
case 2 : they are going to fight
so, case 1:
UA sell the pluggin bundle with (hidden) agreement of SC: back to what I said : we are the past, SC is working on something else, and don't really care about what happen with the old stuff...so Scope 5 is probably a last fake, to keep us some more time buzzing around...they are in this case playing a bad game with us...
case 2 : a fight is coming : Let say scope is dead, cause as soon as an official legal procedure will be started, all bucks make by one or the other company will be locked waiting for the final legal statement, probably not before one or more years. Or at least, none of the company will invest time, human and money with the risk to be spoiled of all this work at end...
It's quite confusing. it seems you want development but don't want to actually give developers your money - bit of a contradiction. Developers have mortgages and kids too.
Please SC, spend 10 minutes to stop this buzz!
some days before christmas, they announce a new update, but not for now : "coming soon"
they probably think that we are childrens getting bucks from mummy and puppy at chrismas, and want to be sure we won't spend our bucks in another system, tired as we are to wait for something new...
SC say : "vista compatible"...nothing else...why?
the other company are not affraid to announce what is new in their new software, even if the new soft only get out some weeks or months later..I think it's better when you promote something to directly announce all the improvment, playing with mystery can work one time (that have been done with SFP 4.5)...why they take the risk to let us doubt ? where is the benefit for SC?
Here is no one at SC that can spend one hour to write a log of all the new things we will have with this update?
or maybe being not clear is a way to make us talk and talk, to add at the last moment what we are ready to pay for? I hope...one more time...I hope...one more time...and more I feel myself stupid...
Part two:
now there is two companies..
case 1 : they collaborate
case 2 : they are going to fight
so, case 1:
UA sell the pluggin bundle with (hidden) agreement of SC: back to what I said : we are the past, SC is working on something else, and don't really care about what happen with the old stuff...so Scope 5 is probably a last fake, to keep us some more time buzzing around...they are in this case playing a bad game with us...
case 2 : a fight is coming : Let say scope is dead, cause as soon as an official legal procedure will be started, all bucks make by one or the other company will be locked waiting for the final legal statement, probably not before one or more years. Or at least, none of the company will invest time, human and money with the risk to be spoiled of all this work at end...
about the free SDK: It's just a gift for rich kids, who want to invest such an amount of buck for the scope 15dsp board with no possibilties of getting back money?So you missed the whole SDK thing then i take it?
It's quite confusing. it seems you want development but don't want to actually give developers your money - bit of a contradiction. Developers have mortgages and kids too.
Please SC, spend 10 minutes to stop this buzz!
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Mr Arkadin
- Posts: 3280
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2001 4:00 pm
Do you think being new year and all we could be a little more positive? Oh well, no looks like the answer...
You also seem to know a lot about SC's motivations: you know the update is a fake, you know they are squeezing the last bit of cash out of us, you know they are working on new hardware which is not compatible with the old. You also know about their secret agreements with UA.
Maybe they haven't announced details of Scope 5 because:
a) Like most companies they probably want to generate a bit of interest before launching
b) Not all features may be finalised and they might not want to promise features which eventually do not appear - and i'm sure you would be the first to write a complaining thread about those features not appearing in Scope 5 as promised.
You also seem to know a lot about SC's motivations: you know the update is a fake, you know they are squeezing the last bit of cash out of us, you know they are working on new hardware which is not compatible with the old. You also know about their secret agreements with UA.
Maybe they haven't announced details of Scope 5 because:
a) Like most companies they probably want to generate a bit of interest before launching
b) Not all features may be finalised and they might not want to promise features which eventually do not appear - and i'm sure you would be the first to write a complaining thread about those features not appearing in Scope 5 as promised.
What?????? You either do or do not own a 15 DSP board. You need it to run the SDK. The SDK is free - how is that a gift for rich kids? You cannot develop Scope devices without a Scope board - it's not Synth Edit. You're not making sense here.moxi wrote: about the free SDK: It's just a gift for rich kids, who want to invest such an amount of buck for the scope 15dsp board with no possibilties of getting back money?
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Shayne White
- Posts: 1454
- Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2001 4:00 pm
- Location: California
- Contact:
I was planning to buy 4.5 soon anyway because I want the included plugs (I have 4.0). So buying 5.0 instead with whatever bug fixes are included is a great bonus!
Shayne
Shayne
Melodious Synth Radio
http://www.melodious-synth.com
Melodious synth music by Binary Sea
http://www.binary-sea.com
http://www.melodious-synth.com
Melodious synth music by Binary Sea
http://www.binary-sea.com
Mr. A already explained it, but as I recently requested here's some information about a GUI builder for industrial applications...moxi wrote:...about the free SDK: It's just a gift for rich kids, who want to invest such an amount of buck for the scope 15dsp board with no possibilties of getting back money?
It's quite confusing. it seems you want development but don't want to actually give developers your money - bit of a contradiction. Developers have mortgages and kids too. ...
the single developer license is 12k Euro, a single runtime is a 100 Euro fee
that is the cost of professional tools and that system is only for the graphic control, no DSP code generator etc included
I consider this system quite affordable in regard to productivity
cheers, Tom