Lets say I have a percussion track. When I play it with my drum module the beats sound like they're right there in front of my face.
When a real percussionist in open environment goes 10m away from me something happens to the sound. With plain logic I assume some frequencies fade more than others and the overall volume level comes more normalized. But I haven't succeeded in moving an instrument further away like that. Of course I can do some of that with echo and reverb but that is not always an option and does not sound realistic.
Anyone have an advice on this?
How to make a sound go further away
maybe eq it a bit..... before the reverb stage, a bit of high damping does wonders in placement.
But I aggree, that this is a niche where nearly no plug-ins are available.
A soundplacer similar to a reverb, but without reverb...
And no ambiance algo.... more a soundplacer psycho acoustic equalizer....
I think Roland had a box with RSS stuff that could place sounds in every dimension, behind speakers, behind listener + up and down positioning.
.....
But I aggree, that this is a niche where nearly no plug-ins are available.
A soundplacer similar to a reverb, but without reverb...
And no ambiance algo.... more a soundplacer psycho acoustic equalizer....
I think Roland had a box with RSS stuff that could place sounds in every dimension, behind speakers, behind listener + up and down positioning.
.....
Just adding distance is what you seem to want.
If you want the sound to seem like it's walking away, I would use the reverb mix level, or Gigastudio 3 Orchestra Gigapulse, which is also a VST plug now.
If no reverb is being used, Tascam Gigapulse has a mic modeling / convolution mixture where you could walk backwards with your mic while recording. This does work on already recorded material fairly well. It's a mic placement technique when mixing that lets one decide where the instruments sit in the mix.
www.tascamgiga.com
There are several ways to use this app. It works really well for separating string and orchestral sections during mixdowns.
I use it as an early reflector, and pedal down impulse on pianos, which it does very well.
When I first got it, we used it to make a drum mix sound as if it were on a moving platform and were shocked that it worked so well.
If you want the sound to seem like it's walking away, I would use the reverb mix level, or Gigastudio 3 Orchestra Gigapulse, which is also a VST plug now.
If no reverb is being used, Tascam Gigapulse has a mic modeling / convolution mixture where you could walk backwards with your mic while recording. This does work on already recorded material fairly well. It's a mic placement technique when mixing that lets one decide where the instruments sit in the mix.
www.tascamgiga.com
There are several ways to use this app. It works really well for separating string and orchestral sections during mixdowns.
I use it as an early reflector, and pedal down impulse on pianos, which it does very well.
When I first got it, we used it to make a drum mix sound as if it were on a moving platform and were shocked that it worked so well.
Definately, it is a space.
I am not exactly sure what you are trying to achieve, but picture a group of musicians sitting in a semi circle outdoors, for the sake of a stereo spread.
You could literally have them recorded w/ mics close or far, or have an overheard. The actual bodys of the musicians would be the first source of an early reflection. The overhead mic is a movie industry favorite as it catches those pleasing floor or ground reflections as well the body's. It sounds too deep I know. But that's exactly why people deaden the recording area w/ bass traps etc. In this way they can apply the desired space during mixdown.
Are you looking to alter a recording that needs some added space,w/o having to apply reverb?
Gigapulse will actually place the source material in the stereo field where you want it w/o colorising the sound. If you are looking for a solution to just back and forth there are other options. But GP will just take it and place wherever you want in the stereo, or surround field.
I am not exactly sure what you are trying to achieve, but picture a group of musicians sitting in a semi circle outdoors, for the sake of a stereo spread.
You could literally have them recorded w/ mics close or far, or have an overheard. The actual bodys of the musicians would be the first source of an early reflection. The overhead mic is a movie industry favorite as it catches those pleasing floor or ground reflections as well the body's. It sounds too deep I know. But that's exactly why people deaden the recording area w/ bass traps etc. In this way they can apply the desired space during mixdown.
Are you looking to alter a recording that needs some added space,w/o having to apply reverb?
Gigapulse will actually place the source material in the stereo field where you want it w/o colorising the sound. If you are looking for a solution to just back and forth there are other options. But GP will just take it and place wherever you want in the stereo, or surround field.
Reflections are one part of the acoustic phenomenapeksi wrote:Thanks a lot for your tips. So basically you think that a reverb-like effect is also present even when increasing distance in open outdoor environment?
for outdoor scenarions I think the air damping is also very important the more a sound is away from listener and the loudness of the wave itself.
Think of clapping your hands in some sort of canyon, its not only a long delay, the sound itself changes too.
I always think of the water in the sea. think of a big wave that is running through the sea and is influenced by the other small waves in the sea and changes the look of the source wave.
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hubird
[/quote]peksi wrote:Thanks a lot for your tips. So basically you think that a reverb-like effect is also present even when increasing distance in open outdoor environment?
without any reflexions it's hard to place sounds backward otherwise than by volume and hi cuts.
But you don't wanne have your music placed in a flat desert, isn't it.
The hi's of the reverb tells you what kind of materials do reflect.
Tiles do this differently from trees or stones.
A good ambient reverb is hardly noticable as a reverb, if done properly.
Just put as much effect on it as is hearable disappearing when muted
many people misuse reverbs. they can be used for all kinds of special effects, but the main use is to create a room. to do this the reverb is used in an auxilliary bus and all signals are sent to to that bus, some more than others. in order to get the experience of an environment, all signals must be in that environment. sounds are judged in relationship to other sounds. more reverb, more distance. this is the way your ears work. the more reflected sound, the further away, the more direct sound, the closer a sound is.
Thanks again for info, that helps.
Here is what I'm really after: I have a drum loop and I use it in a similar manner to ... remember Madonna's Frozen? Nothing that fancy due to my inferior skills to Ferry Corsten (?) but I want the loop to be clearly audible and still make room for other instruments. Be behind other instruments but have it's own place in the audio field / space.
Yesterday I tried compressing the sample, EQ it and add some delay. Got half way there now, almost happy. Also tried reverb but the Scope standard reverb sounded like my toilet. When I set it to a big stage it sounded like my garage.
But in general I easily fill up the audio space too much leaving the end result noisy, every instrument trying to jump out of speakers. I'm doing EQ to clear room but still not there as I'd want it to be. That's why I'd like to be able to control the depth too.
In addition to my love towards Scope I also found out but the stock reverb / delays suck I have to get better FX plugins.
edit: that Gigapulse looks nice. It's not available as a Scope plugin?
Here is what I'm really after: I have a drum loop and I use it in a similar manner to ... remember Madonna's Frozen? Nothing that fancy due to my inferior skills to Ferry Corsten (?) but I want the loop to be clearly audible and still make room for other instruments. Be behind other instruments but have it's own place in the audio field / space.
Yesterday I tried compressing the sample, EQ it and add some delay. Got half way there now, almost happy. Also tried reverb but the Scope standard reverb sounded like my toilet. When I set it to a big stage it sounded like my garage.
But in general I easily fill up the audio space too much leaving the end result noisy, every instrument trying to jump out of speakers. I'm doing EQ to clear room but still not there as I'd want it to be. That's why I'd like to be able to control the depth too.
In addition to my love towards Scope I also found out but the stock reverb / delays suck
I have to get better FX plugins.edit: that Gigapulse looks nice. It's not available as a Scope plugin?
be careful, the early reflection pattern of masterverb isn`t exactly what I would call perfect....
that really makes the sound stand out strangely...
So you could try to turn down the er-part in masterverb section or even check other reverbs....
I don`t think masterverb is bad, but there may be other tools that fit better to your task.
IMO reverb is the most critical music fx available.... you can use cheap delays, weak eqs, low end distortion but a weak reverb is a no-go if you want great results...
try the better scope reverbs, or integrate a better class hardware unit like a PCM70 or 90 for authentic subtile room signature.
The limit is about money you want to invest....
that really makes the sound stand out strangely...
So you could try to turn down the er-part in masterverb section or even check other reverbs....
I don`t think masterverb is bad, but there may be other tools that fit better to your task.
IMO reverb is the most critical music fx available.... you can use cheap delays, weak eqs, low end distortion but a weak reverb is a no-go if you want great results...
try the better scope reverbs, or integrate a better class hardware unit like a PCM70 or 90 for authentic subtile room signature.
The limit is about money you want to invest....
they don't 
you just may try to use them in a way that's not intended - not all are created equal...
it's easy to overdo and/or misadjust
you may have a complex sound idea that's not (easily) covered by that device alone.
beware of the individual wet signal - as Gary wrote, it's the context that matters
admittedly, I wouldn't use Masterverb as a high quality ambience generator either, as I have the STW A100 for that, but as great as the latter creates a room, as lame it is on guitar or a synth track - usually a waste of resources
cheers, Tom
you just may try to use them in a way that's not intended - not all are created equal...
it's easy to overdo and/or misadjust
you may have a complex sound idea that's not (easily) covered by that device alone.
beware of the individual wet signal - as Gary wrote, it's the context that matters
admittedly, I wouldn't use Masterverb as a high quality ambience generator either, as I have the STW A100 for that, but as great as the latter creates a room, as lame it is on guitar or a synth track - usually a waste of resources
cheers, Tom