Scope w/ FL

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:43 pm

I think I'll be picking up a Scope card (B-stock or used) to use as my soundcard for a new DAW I'm ordering. Anyone have any experience using CW stuff with FLStudio/FruityLoops? That's my main sequencer.

Post by **garyb** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:24 am

it'll work. asio is preferred if you want to achieve low latency.

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:20 am

Hey zircon, good to see you're still considering - i thought you'd pretty much decided against Scope. Maybe we can convince you yet

valis · Post by **valis** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:30 am

Since FLStudio has had proper audio tracking abilities for a few years I see no reason that Scope wouldn't be every bit as useful as it would with any other major sequencer.

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:28 am

Mr Arkadin wrote:Hey zircon, good to see you're still considering - i thought you'd pretty much decided against Scope. Maybe we can convince you yet

Well, I decided it wasn't the best solution simply to add more processing power. However, as a sound card, it looks like a great solution.

Someone recommended ASIO for use in FL. That's good, I've been using ASIO anyway. How efficient are the SCOPE drivers? eg. Asio4All isn't as CPU efficient as my EMU 0404's drivers.

Another quick question, what are the physical inputs exactly? Looks like 2 1/8" from the pics but I can't really tell...

Post by **garyb** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:33 am

the i/o depends on the card. the analog i/o on the home card is stereo trs 1/4". on the other two cards, it's either twin rca or xlr depending on whether you get the unbalanced or the balanced version.

the scope asio driver is nearly flawless, dependable and 64max channels(you will have to set up your computer properly, of course, but setup is easy).

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:52 am

hey zicron you made it over here....

the latency is between 1ms and 25ms

I work with 7ms, I`m sure I could also go down a little more... but I don`t really see the point why I should.

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:15 am

Haha, that's awesome. I run at 50ms typically because if I go really low (given the amount of plugins I use) I get too many underruns.

katano · Post by **katano** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:18 am

zircon wrote:Haha, that's awesome. I run at 50ms typically because if I go really low (given the amount of plugins I use) I get too many underruns.

50ms

i usually work with 4ms and 24 ASIO2-24bit channels, all mixing and effects done in scope

but have to say that i've got 2 scope pro cards and soon i'll get my srb, makes a total of 45 dsps

cheerz
Roman

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:38 am

Yeah 3-4ms here, sometimes up to 7-13ms for big mixdown projects, but i seem to rarely have to do that these days.
How the hell you been using 200+ VSTi with 50ms? i would go mad

Unlike cards that run in the VST environment (also like using XTC mode of Scope). you don't get the latency doubling up, so Scope is effectively realtime all the time.

If you like granular stuff check out Adern's FleXor add on to ModularIII. There's literally hundreds of user made ModIII patches here on the z (thanks megerov and faxi nadu et al), so you don't even have to build your own if you're not into that.

Michu · Post by **Michu** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:54 am

Just be mindful, that older cards (Pulsar 1) don't go below 13 ms of latency because of hardware limitations. Newer ones do

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:23 am

The reason I can work at high latencies is because I don't record anything - MIDI, audio, or otherwise. I like to be able to hear stuff back close to real time (50ms is close enough) but otherwise, it's a non-issue for me.

Here's another question. How would one go about using, say, Optimaster and PSY-Q in real time with a project in FLStudio?

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:45 am

How would one go about using, say, Optimaster and PSY-Q in real time with a project in FLStudio?

Well as they're generally considered mastering tools what i tend to do is get my mix as good as i can without them. Then i record the final stereo track into Cubase. i then setup a small project with just OptiMaster and PsyQ and feed the stereo mix i made (via ASIO Source) straight into them and straight out again to be recorded back in the sequencer (via ASIO Dest). Generally i'l just use OptiMaster first (starting with the Wizard - a great feature) and then only add PsyQ if i feel it's really necessary. PsyQ is a bit like those enhancers like Aphex or SPL produce in 1U racks). It can make things more airy, but you have to watch out you don't make everything sizzle in the top end of the spectrum or it can get a bit tiresome on the ears.

i do know of one person who found PsyQ particularly good on male vocals as i recall too. For daily compression needs (mono sources - vocals, bass, kick etc.) i tend to just use Vinco, maybe with some highpass cut before the compressor to get rid of some of that bass energy that can all too quickly clutter up a mix.

As with all mastering tools it's a good idea to get it to where you think it's perfect and go off and do something else for a while, come back to it and see if you didn't overdo it.

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:22 pm

or if you have enough dsp, you just plug in the optimaster and psy fx into the master fx slots of your CW mixers....

btw:
hey I know the emu chips quite well, and I know the problems with latency and ASIO and so on..... once you load more VST fx and instruments, you get clicks and pops until you raise the latency more up....

thats crazy.... personally I will buy no more emu cards , they are more or less upgarded soundblasters...: Audigy, SB Live!, Emu0404 and all the other stuff is basically the same...with different D/As and A/Ds.... and slightly exchanged software on board...

Another manufacturerer I will never buy again is terratec.... really buggy crappy sounding stuff...

Mr Arkadin · Post by **Mr Arkadin** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:41 pm

or if you have enough dsp, you just plug in the optimaster and psy fx into the master fx slots of your CW mixers....

Actually i have enough DSP for this, i just prefer simplifying things when it comes to mastering, otherwise i think there is a huge temptation to keep tweaking faders, then re-tweaking OptiMaster and so on. It's like switching off the computer monitor when mixing, sometimes you're so busy watching the sound, you don't actually hear it.

katano · Post by **katano** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:38 pm

Mr Arkadin wrote:Actually i have enough DSP for this, i just prefer simplifying things when it comes to mastering, otherwise i think there is a huge temptation to keep tweaking faders, then re-tweaking OptiMaster and so on. It's like switching off the computer monitor when mixing, sometimes you're so busy watching the sound, you don't actually hear it.

well said! I totally agree...

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:09 pm

have you tried fruity loops rewired or vst with nuendo or cubase?
in general it works great for me except the fact that it becomes heavy when moving the window that includes the application.
check task manager to see how much cpu it needs when you move it. this causes clicks and pops. it cannot be used in very low latancy when rewired.
except if there is a setting that will allow FL studio to disappear while moving the window and appear back again so the graphics not to be moved.
Is there such setting for FL studio?
i have also asked about the same in scopes devices.
scopes devices as well become very heavy when are moved.
can it be for scopes devices to be moved without graphics?
reason propellerhead does this, steinbergs applications disappear as well when moving their windows.
that would be very convenient.
is there a way to do it?

hifiboom · Post by **hifiboom** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:38 pm

I have no problem when moving windows in Scope environment...

Have you installed a proper graphics card driver?

ARCADIOS · Post by **ARCADIOS** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:42 pm

yes. tried other cards as well. at the moment i use 7900 gtx.
nvidia seems more stable.
but check it while at the same time there is fl running

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:20 pm

Hm.. lack of proper VST integration is a bit of a bummer... I like to run my mastering stuff directly on the master track of my projects so I can hear the results in real time. It's a weird way of working, but it's effective for what I do. XTC play nice with FL? How does that work?