Is there any such Motherboard that ....

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dante
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Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by dante » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:22 am

Is there any such Motherboard (Intel chipset) that :

1) Can run a 6 core Intel i7
2) Has PCI slots (1 or preferably more)
3) Works with XITE-1 (XITE-1D) (or at least has a chipset that is known to work w/ XITE)

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Bud Weiser
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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by Bud Weiser » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:35 am

dante wrote:Is there any such Motherboard (Intel chipset) that :

1) Can run a 6 core Intel i7
2) Has PCI slots (1 or preferably more)
3) Works with XITE-1 (XITE-1D) (or at least has a chipset that is known to work w/ XITE)
Very interesting question but also very hard to find out and to tell when not building such machine.
When comparing available Intel i7 hex core (7th gen) processors, they are ALL socket 2011-3.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... 2931,82932

There´s a new processor announced as to be launched Q2/ 2017 ...
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... 7800x.html
unfortunately the specs don´t tell what socket it will be ... :roll:

Also here https://ark.intel.com/products/123589/I ... o-4_30-GHz no word ...

But I guess it will be LGA2066 and Intel X299 chipset.
The result is "PCI support = NO"
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... /x299.html

Socket 2011-3 mobos come w/ 2 different chipsets.

a) Intel C612 ... PCI support = "PCIe"
https://ark.intel.com/products/81759/Intel-C612-Chipset

b) Intel X99 express ... PCI support = "PCIe"
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... s/x99.html

To me that means if there are PCI slots available on a mainboard, these are "PCI to PCIe" bridged and not recommended for realtime hardware devices.

In addition X99 chipset mobos were reported as not to be ideal or no-go for XITE.
But I might be wrong and it´s matter of individual case (manufacturer, mobo design/ layout) or such.

In any case, it´s damn risky to invest in such build because of the high costs.

You might have a better chance looking for the older socket 2011 mainboards and Intel Sandy- and Ivy Bridge hexcore procs.

But that´s risky too !
A friend of mine has such built and his ASUS mainboard introduced issues.
Then he tried to get a new one, but they were unavailable already because not many customers buy the "highest end" hardware.
In the end there were used boards available @ebay but for the same price as the new product or higher, depending on condition and because these are so rare.
But that´s the situation in germany and might be better in other countries.

:)

Bud

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garyb
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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by garyb » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:57 am

is that for a processor that you already have?
since Jimmy reports that the Z270s work for him, that might be a better solution.

as to your question, i don't think that's been answered definitively. that's a configuration that has been pretty expensive for people to just try out.

by the way, PCI-PCIe bridges work just fine, if implemented properly. they don't work on socket 1155, but they work great on socket 1150.

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by dante » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:49 am

Dont have the proc yet - just thinking in future since Reason can run VST so might get into the u-He and Spectrasonics synths etc. It depends on how well Propheads optimise VST support of course as the u-He/Spectrasonics are CPU munchers.

Hesitant to run 2 seperate systems (one for XITE and the other for PCI) so will see how things pan out.

Thanks for the info's - need more research I spose.

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by garyb » Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:57 am

if the z270 works, that'll be the most powerful system available...

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by dante » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:35 am

Surer but like bud says, it doesnt support hexacore.

So I guess the simpler question is (if I remove the PCI requirement) - what hexacore setup works with XITE-1 ?

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by JoPo » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:41 am

dante wrote:what hexacore setup works with XITE-1 ?
Yep ! Very good question !
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by garyb » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:07 am

if a quad-core is more powerful than a hexacore, what's the attraction?
i'm not being argumentative...

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dante
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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by dante » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:57 am

If an Intel i7 quadcore is more powerful than an Intel i7 hexacore, then why did Intel make i7 hexacore?

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by garyb » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:35 am

isn't the hexacore older?

first, for the money, the new quad blows the 6 core away, then in performance, the new quads look to be pretty competitive. i'm sure that for some apps, more cores = more threads = more work, but this seems to be negated by the newer processors much higher clock. i think it depends on how well the apps handle multiple cores, but in general, music apps are not that good at it. one other thought is heat an power consumption. the quad is MUCH better in that department.

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/In ... 3647vs2578
in this benchmark, the hexacore looks slightly better, but not double the price better, and the reviewer calls the actual productivity of both about even:
http://hwbench.com/cpus/intel-core-i7-7 ... e-i7-5930k

looking at the i7 6700 instead of 7700, cpu boss rates the newer processor higher, although for some apps, i'm sure the hex is better:
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-6 ... e-i7-5930K
the 7700 is about $50 cheaper, though...

but if more is always better, then how about 10 cores?
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... ition.html

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by dante » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:18 pm

Reason handles multi cores. So there is discussion here on Reasontalk builds mentioning and recommending hexacores eg 5820. https://forum.reasontalk.com/viewtopic. ... 55b5848915

There is a benchmark song on Reasontalk that measures such things and I have played it over 1 minute 14 seconds on my i7-4790 which isn't bad, but I read such as the following :

"As I mentioned earlier, a friend ended up pulling his hair out with his quad core i7 4790K. He's now got hi 5960X and says he's in heaven. So more cores is the way to go"

The 5960X is expensive 8 core, but Im more interested in working out XITE compatibility first then working down the list on price by going down to 6 core maybe. Theres not much point me asking on Reasontalk about XITE compatibility!

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by garyb » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:20 pm

yeah, i know. everyone thinks that they're doing something special by playing as many midi instruments as possible at once. nobody records anything because nobody actually composes.

well, like i said, i'm not trying to stop you. i just bet a 7700 will work pretty much as well for less money. there's a big difference between a 7700 and a 4790.

you'll need to be your own guinea pig and find out...

didn't i link to the 10 core extreme processor?

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by dante » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:42 pm

Yep - 8 or 10 core expensive - but if jumping over 6 core is what it takes to get worthwhile horsepower jump then so be it. What XITE compatible mobo it runs on ?

Or is it really the case that I would be the guinea pig for running XITE on any system with > 4 cores ?

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by garyb » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:05 pm

yes, that's really the case.
i believe that people have not had any luck with X99, but i don't know about the other 2011 chipsets.
that generation didn't seem to work well, but some chipsets might.
it appears that the current generation of processors/chipsets DOES work well. this is typical when there is a big change in architecture. 1155 is a good example. both AMD and Intel offerings of that period don't work correctly for the type of computing that Scope does.

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by dante » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:45 pm

Damn - well first wait till we see how Jimmy goes with Ryzen in 1U. Then wait a year or two more if someone else goes the guinea pig on Intel. And see which alternative is best when my patience runs out :lol:

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by fraz » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:24 pm

Hello Dante,

I know what you are talking about with the Reason stress test song - The test was created by someone using an Intel 5930K that was overclocked.

An i7 4790K even overclocked probably would not play that stress test song but a 5820K probably would but it would need to be overclocked upto 20%+ [maybe less +/- X %] so you'd need good cooling to safeguard the CPU.

I get what Garyb is saying that nobody would use all those instruments in any given song!

I realise you were asking about Intel motherboards that can use 6 core CPU's that also happens to have PCI slots as well. I've not seen any on LGA 2011 let alone LGA 2011 V3 - And someone else here had a nightmare with Xite on LGA 2011-V3 X99.

Apparently LGA 2011 like 3930K does work well on Xite though I've not tried this yet - but PCI slots will be hard to come by - I'll have a look though and let you know.

An idea would be just to use 1150 Intel which is the best for Scope Xite & PCI cards but add AN other audio interface separate from Scope so when you want to use Reason you can feed audio one way or the other and sync accordingly and test your sanity out while your at it - :lol:

Then you could use any new computer with what ever 6 core, 8 core, 10 core - Haswell-E or Broadwell-E - From 5820K [if available-6850K upwards - Have the new version of Reason on another machine - A big hassle but relatively more simple than trying to juggle the compatibility of motherboards with PCI slots and 6 core+ CPU's !!! - Just an idea so don't bite!

Then the older Scope technology [but excellent :) ] is kept away from the newer technology but merged together - Then you could add a UAD or RME or Red Net or Orion or what ever - Just an idea then you can stop chasing your tail - I know the feeling :lol:

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by garyb » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Z270 works, so far.
7th gen i7s work, so far.

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by fraz » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:41 pm

garyb wrote:Z270 works, so far.
7th gen i7s work, so far.
OK - Please provide some more info!!! - :) - 1150 > 1151 [-Z-170] > 1151 [Z-270]-And this works, wow - :) - How well does it work compared to Intel socket 1150? -

There was another guy on here who mentions it works to a point - But up to the point of 1150? - ??? - If so it is interesting - Intel i7 7700K gets another 10% in 4790K, is 4 core so is very similar to 4790K - But is it on a par working wise with 1150?

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by Sounddesigner » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:45 pm

Gary is right the newer 7700k Quad is likely to outperform the older 6-cores in every way. The mewer 7700k has more speed and a newer architecture to counter the extra cores of the older 6-cores.

Both quads and 6-cores have their advantages and both outperform each other in certain situations generally. E.g. if you have a newer 6-core that's of the same architecture of the newer quad and if your DAW is good at core-scaling many cores then that 6-core can handle a much larger load of effects that are not super-cpu-intensive. BUT if you use hungry instruments that eat up a whole core then a Quad will serve you better cause you'll get more voices due to the quad-core having a bigger core (by bigger I mean faster due to more GHZ). There are some situations where there is no substitute for more speed when needed. The Quad will usually outperform the 6-core in some situations and if the quad is super fast it can outperform the 6-Core basically in every situation. More cores, threads, etc are generally a form of substitute-power for lack of higher-speed capability wich is true-power.

I work at 96khz Samplerate and the need for and superiority of more speed is a lot easier to see since a core's power is cut in half at that Samplerate. Since the power of my 2.66GHZ Quad core is cut in half thus many of my most demanding plugins easily eat up a whole core and beyond causing pops, clicks, drop-outs, etc and low-latency is impossible with quite a few of my demanding plugins, more cores will not help me my next upgrade I simply put need bigger cores to handle the extremely demanding plugins that eat up a whole core and beyond as well as better low-latency.

When it comes to less-demanding plugins used in large projects the 6-core of same architecture will out-perform the quad, but when it comes to extremely-demanding plugins and lowest-latencies (especially at high samplerates where a core's power is cut in half) then a faster quad will serve you better (as long as the speed difference is big enough, I think about .5ghz or better). 6-cores have traditionally handle larger amounts of samples better due to more L3 MB Cache. Some people are better served from the 6 core and some people like myself are better served by the faster quad.


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Last edited by Sounddesigner on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:31 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Is there any such Motherboard that ....

Post by dante » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:01 pm

The PCI slots are not a critical requirement - since I run mostly for example only a monophonic proTone on them which I have a good replacement for in Reason - the Legend synth is a moog synth rather than a pro one but does a good job. Or I can move some of the mastering load back into reason allowing me to run proTone, proWave and Brickmaster on the XITE-1D (@96KHz).

Yes, you don't need to be running millions of soft synths (and not composing much) to chew up 4 cores when your running 96Khz. Now with Reveal Spire on board Reason and the possibility of running Omnisphere etc in Reason I can see the day when more headroom would be valuable.

I'm not often maxing out the i7-4790 and when I do its easy to trim some reverb or delay trails, group tracks more efficiently etc to avoid the problem (I very rarely have to render-in-place anything).

The concept of running a new system in 1U is also attractive and do-able if keeping the PCI cards in a second system, so will be following Jimmy's Ryzen adventure with interest. I would keep reason and XITE on the same system and PCI on the second though rather than Reason on one and XITE/PCI on the other. That way I could do 95% of what I wanted to do by only booting 1 system not 2 all the time.

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