BlackBox 3

General discussion for SpaceF Devices

Moderators: valis, spacef

Post Reply
User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

BlackBox 3

Post by spacef » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:24 am

https://spacef-devices.com/product-category/blackbox-3/

Please note the key is ALWAYS to be purchased separetely : 100% of the key price goes to SC for the activation.


BlackBox 3 is a set of filters, oscillators, and modulators that can be connected together to make synths. It is like modular mixer, but for synths. but not like a modular. It is actually sections of a modular.
- it is made to integrate with external gear such as you synths and euroracks and vstis. don't load a filter when you only need an oscillator, and vice-versa. There will be modulators for those who don't have KrON. It should be nice with polyphony, I have not tried yet.
There should be dev where you can load BB2 osc/effects, but that's for later. The real point in common would be that it can be extended with future developments.

I hope it is ok that I post current "sounds"': it's 4 samples of a sequence put together.
https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... ATOR-1.mp3
I beleive it sounds pretty nice ... The filter is the FIltEq 1 and the oscillator is the oscillator 1 (work in progress).
NB: an eq was used on the first track to remove bass frequencies.


User avatar
yayajohn
Posts: 1243
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:01 pm
Location: Everywhere....Nowhere

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by yayajohn » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:16 am

Wow, those sound really nice. Hooray for BB3!!!

User avatar
Spielraum
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:11 pm
Location: Raumschiff Erde

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by Spielraum » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:06 am

cool, makes me curious
based on the workflow of roys cmn synthi v2!?
pics are welcome...
|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅] Lange Welle ~ Mittelwelle ~ Kurze Welle ~ Ultra Kurze Welle

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by spacef » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:09 am

I don't think it is the same workflow. I think it is radically different. First because it is not "a synth" and it is not "based on another synth" . It is the workflow of analog synth and euroracks = no presets + there will be days when you do fantastic stuff with them, and other days when you can't seem to get anywhere and you won't really understand why (it is because of the mystic of inspiration :-)...
So it works the same as KrOn+CV synths, except that synths are cut in smaller parts so it takes the concept a step further (away from factory presets lol - now you need 2 or 3 presets to get your synth sound back). It is more about looking for new sounds each time than loading presets. So in this point of view, it is for those who are used to working that way. You can also make presets on different devices and mix them together if you are organized enough. There is the full and noCV preset lists. There might be couple of presets to begin with but a factory preset list is not on the to-do list.
The other aspect is that they can work together but they are made to be integrated into other gear such as eurorack filters and oscillators (or vstis). So it is not about stacking function together to do everything in a single device.
Finally, I try to get away from the stock scope oscillators sounds - that doesn't make it for me anymore - and get something more analog. It is difficult: only a couple of scope oscillators are giving good results, and there are a couple of things that can't be achieved in the digital domain anyways. Also, I haven't seen the BB3 oscillator structure in any dsp or vsti or hardware device yet. It can support 2 voices of polyphony max (more than that and it doesn't work anymore).

Sorry no pics, they are not finished yet.

dawman
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by dawman » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:03 am

Im definitely looking forward tonthis.
Cool demos too, they show everything you need to hear and as its modulating.

Ankyu

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by spacef » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:14 am

FilteQ 1 Midi version - Complexity is in the black modules :-)
going into testing phase... I often need to post publicly to see the litle graphics that need to be corrected. Otherwise, I don't see them... I've spotted one already :-) ("pre" in the delay that does not corespond to anything anymore)
Attachments
pic2.png
pic2.png (120.64 KiB) Viewed 943 times

dawman
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by dawman » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:00 pm

Sweetness.

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by spacef » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:54 pm

Spielraum wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:06 am
cool, makes me curious
based on the workflow of roys cmn synthi v2!?
pics are welcome...

I think a reminder of where it comes from is necessary.

AFter BlackBox II, I designed multisynth (2008/2009 ?) , . It is a multitimbral device made of 3 synths that shared an ensemble of modulators that were either "inside" or "outside"' of each synth - but all inside the same device. MultiSynth came in several versions and took 1 full scope PCI card to enjoy. Basically I wanted to have something mutitimbral, splittable, and with shared modulators. It could also do limited rythms thanks to a noise generator (the 4th synth, hidden bnehind the 3rd one).
ms-screenshot001.jpg
ms-screenshot001.jpg (374.99 KiB) Viewed 884 times
After Multissynth - which lacked a step sequencer- came LBH VIII (2009?) , an 8 tracks 32 step sequencer . LBH VIII was also a giant host that could load oscillators and filters, but also drum modules. It was made like a workstation and improved the MultiSynth concept a lot by removing any "non-shared" modulator. It could manage 8 synths/tracks, instead of 3/4 with Multisynth. it also required a full Scope PCI to make it work with all oscillators and filters, you had room for a small mixer after LBH, and a mixer was actually made for this. It had some timing issues but overall worked fine and could be used for production. It's my first attempt at a step sequencer. It also had the infinite-preset-sequencer, the absolute first in scope... you could trigger pattern changes in various ways, such as "pressing a button" or with specific notes of the keyboard ( it was tricky to make them change by specific notes, but it worked...sometimes). The preset sequencer takes a lot of power to work, and so it was replaced by Program Changes in further devices, because Program Changes are part o scope preset list function, and require 0 additional module to get them to work.
It looked so huge back then...
LBH-X1-full-size.jpg
LBH-X1-full-size.jpg (174.89 KiB) Viewed 884 times


Then came Modular Mixer 1 (2011), then v 2 (2016) . SpaceF makes mixers since the very early days of Scope. The concept of the Modular Mixer is unique to the scope platform, and dates backs years before other companies even begin to think about modular mixers. It also included VCA modules, LFOs, ADSR, modulation crossfaders.... Modular Mixer has always been thought of as "a mixer", but also as a "post oscillator synth", where you can modulate filters and levels directly inside the mixer, while using any sound source that you wish. So with a basic oscillator in front of a channel, you could create a basic synth. I confess that this was the "last step" of the concept and was not naturally achieved with Modular Mixer, because a bit too far from the concept of a mixer, only 1 modulator (or two in chain, which is not ideal gfor a synth) and because only a handfull of devices allowed to play this part nicely. Modular mixers v 1 and v2 were crucial in understanding how to mix sounds together properly. All further devices, like CV synths, include the mixing tricks learned with modular mixers and whithout which they would not sound the same.
Modular_Mixer_4c2fbab2367c3.jpg
Modular_Mixer_4c2fbab2367c3.jpg (87.96 KiB) Viewed 884 times

Then came KrOn, which is an évolution of LBH VIII as well as a refinment of the MultiSynth concept: you are not obliged to load "lots of synths" at once anymore, and you wer not limited anymore by a synth arhitecture fixed inside the device. Now you can load any synth you want and enjoy each synth's own architecture. It means more variety, less compromises, all united under the same workflow of devices connected together, each doing different stuff, to achieve a final sound.
KrOn is both a Modular Mixer and CV modulator (built inside the guts of LBH VIII). At first it was made to control a KorG MS 20 (LogiQuencer) , but then evolved into something different: because KrOn is a modulator, you can connect it to any synth. The principle is ismply to remove the oscillators and filters from inside the device, and keep the modulators only. KrOn is - akaik - the first and only attempt to manage CV signals from Scope in an advanced way ie supporting V/Oct, Hz/V , DSP etc. It is also in the tradition of spacef modulators, that were made over the years (I hope you have the free LogiQuencer?). KrOn is also an evolution of multisynth, in a more manageable way as synths are completely seperated from modulators.
KrOn+FMZ shows this pretty well, and it works much better than the old Multisynth. KrOn+FMZ is the definitive update to MultiSynth and it kicks ass ;-) KrOn is also a "re-discovery" of the power of CV and all the things it can do.
https://spacef-devices.com/kron/kron-updates/

BlackBox III is a step further on the same road of "multisynths", CV/DSP Modulators/Step sequencers , refining concepts that have been in the work for more than 10 years now.... but in an even more flexible way because devices are smaller and accessible to more plateforms (not only xite or large dsp boards) .... It also supports both DSP and CV modulators like KrOn. BlackBox III also takes the Modular Mixer v2 "effect routing" to the maximum compatibilty.

So to answer the question, the workflow on BB3 is not to be compared to third parties, but to previous spacef devices, as they are all part of the same idea born years ago and pushed to new limits each time :-) .

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by spacef » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:53 pm

some mp3 from the archives:-)

Some vintage sounds from Multisynth. each synth could have a different polyphony. they could do a lot of stuff thanks to advanced filter section.
oscillators are blackbox oscillators.
https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... gen-03.mp3
https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... -mix-2.mp3 (drums by multisynth)
https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... urvive.mp3 (warning, loud drums)


a 7minute track with LBH VIII rythmic sequence + gated sounds (it can b used as an fx). Solo synths = multisynth. Added drums = maschine
https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... 20VIII.wav

LBH-LE is a two track version of LBH VIII. Blackbox II oscillators & filters
https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... oGates.mp3 (with a drum machine)
https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... -LE-02.mp3 (with a drum machine)

A pattern of LBH VIII "T-Drums" oscillators (kick, snare...) along with synth oscillators (bass, rythmic organ) .... with a BlackBox II "AnOsc" synth string. LBH on left hand, an-osc on right hand, no other synth/drum machine used.
https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... _ANOsc.mp3

now i am working on this
https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... ATOR-1.mp3

User avatar
Spielraum
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:11 pm
Location: Raumschiff Erde

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by Spielraum » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:31 am

many thanks for the insightful story :o
spacef wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:54 pm
It is a multitimbral device made of 3 synths
cool, what a coincidence, i have just finished a multitimbral studio helper.
beta testing and then...


..i love the LBH, very complex seq philosophy! and i really love the creative moments of surprise
mmhh sometimes too much... and then i'm even scared
because of the performance spoilsport
X~~ sat connection limit, or pci bus overkill ~~X

YEP, LogiQuencer is fantastic!

+and for me,
i am currently testing events (example pitch+gate+vel) to "one midinote" converter with stable time

ps.: very nice pics
!ROCK ON!
Last edited by Spielraum on Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
|̲̅̅●̲̅̅|̲̅̅=̲̅̅|̲̅̅●̲̅̅] Lange Welle ~ Mittelwelle ~ Kurze Welle ~ Ultra Kurze Welle

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by spacef » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:21 am

Yes LBH is a very complex device inside and includes too many good stuff :-) I wanted to make LBH as "THE" workstation for scope. It is stable if you use only LBH+osc/filters, a small mixer...and thenit is better not to add anything else. record every cool stuff and then finish the work in the daw.


BB3 is like that but smaller & lighter.
Here is something that I added yesterday. It is not FM but paraphony modifying the oscillator sounds. The stereo is the filter's LFO phases.

--->>> https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... honics.mp3


what's next:
I still hesitate to add trigger on all EG / VCA.... what do you think ? (ie, to trigger envelopes by LFOs or any signal. Now you can only trigger them by midi notes. You can have the VCA as drone (bypassed VCA) and still trigger the Pitch and Filter EGs by midi notes, so it is already unsyncable EGs... i will try later and see if there are nice results, otherwise the EG/VCA will stay like that (only pitch or filter EGs to bee triggred independantly, when VCA is in drone mode (ie, VCA bypassed)).

I will leave for a couple of days before getting back to it. Thanks for your patience, the recipe is evolving while it is being cooked ;-)

here is the parameters of the sound posted above... still a bit of gfx work to do...
you can see osc 1 , filter 1 and modulator 1 :-)
Attachments
pic3.png
pic3.png (284.85 KiB) Viewed 711 times

dawman
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by dawman » Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:21 pm

Nice crazy mods there.
Having a filter sweep at the same time would bd cool.

Oh btw.
Threw Fat II S across 6 channels and use three or four depending on complexity of the layer of audio I seek, bug the cumulative effect of the Fats on the summed sound coming out of the mains was Greasy Bacon.

Awesome

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by spacef » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:04 pm

- 4 sounds easily made with Osc 1 + FIlter 1 . Modulations are those of the filter only.
- 2 sounds are played without sequencer ("bass" and "string")
- An 8 step sequencer is used only for the pitch of the oscillator on 2 sounds.

On the "bass", the sound evolves by itself. No human manipulation.
stereo effects made with the filter (it is not delays).

https://spacef-devices.com/DOWNLOADS/au ... 3-osc1.mp3

dawman
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by dawman » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:03 pm

Fuckin’ A.
Nice sounding stuff, how much?

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by spacef » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:58 am

At first, the price will be reasonable and will not reflect the amount of work put into these devices nor will it reflect their quality in comparison to other devices/software available on the market etc :-)

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by spacef » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:10 am

It is released.... https://spacef-devices.com/product-category/blackbox-3/

Please note that the activation has ALWAYS to be purchased separetely and 100% of the key price goes to SC (I will transfer to them everyweek or every month.... if there are any sales :-)
You can get the devices seperately or in a bundle (Core Pack 1 https://spacef-devices.com/product/bb3-core-pack-1/).
There will be more devices (2 oscillators are being worked).

https://spacef-devices.com/product-category/blackbox-3/

dawman
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: BlackBox 3

Post by dawman » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:39 am

Mehdi.
Do the Trigger Lights below the LFOs in LFO Step engage/disengage the LFOs?

Im thinking I would assign MIDI CCs to those, then when I want an LFO to modulate my pedals knobs and sliders I send a CC to activate/

Is that correct?

Post Reply