Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

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t_tangent
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Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by t_tangent » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:00 pm

I just recently got my XITE set up again and connected to my DAW. In the same DAW I also have 3 x Scope Pro PCI cards and those have always worked without issues, and I can load large projects with many modules and devices with no DSP capacity issues, up to a point of course.

I have just upgraded to Scope 7 XITE. So I wanted to load up a simple project just to check things out, and this happens.
DSP limit 1.jpg
DSP limit 1.jpg (319.48 KiB) Viewed 2256 times
DSP limit 2.jpg
DSP limit 2.jpg (99.78 KiB) Viewed 2256 times
So I tried assigning the supposedly optimised STM2448 X to DSP 7, then tried to assign SB404 v2 to DSP8 but again I get the same error message. Then tried some other dsp allocations but same thing. Some presets seem to work ok, but others throw up this error.

But.....this is just 2 Devices loaded and 2 other I/O modules. I realise the STM 2448 X is a big device in itself, and for this particular test project I could use the Micromixer for example, but I am hardly loading anything on this project and yet it can't even handle those devices. This cannot be right.

So please could someone out there with an XITE-1 and Scope 7 try to load up a project like this and see if you get the same issue. Just open SB404 and select a few presets. Then try preset 7 Bonanza or 43 Minor Trance, and see if the same error comes up.

I will try loading some other devices to see what else it can handle before capacity is reached, but when I compare what I can load on to my PCI cards and what I cannot load even a fraction of in the XITE it is incredibly frustrating.

An example of a PCI project I can load without issues.
DSP limit 3.jpg
DSP limit 3.jpg (395.71 KiB) Viewed 2256 times
I have seen other XITE users impressively loaded projects and wondering why they dont have the same issues, optimised or not, especially apparently now that Scope 7 is supposed to handle the DSP optimisation much better. Or could it be a problem with this particular unit? Any help would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

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garyb
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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by garyb » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:16 pm

the issue has nothing to do with the number of devices or the complexity. it is a specific dsp module that is not working. if you have both PCI and XITE projects, are you sure the device is loading from the XITE directory? if both PCI and XITE folders are present, try temporarily renaming the PCI folder to see if the device loads correctly.

as far as i was aware, the SB404 is ok in XITE, but it's possible that some presets may not work.

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t_tangent
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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by t_tangent » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:23 pm

Thanks for the help Gary. I will try renaming Scope PCI folder and see if that makes a difference although I am pretty sure the device is loading from the XITE dir. Looking at the second message again, yes like you say it is probably some module that is not working properly.

I will try what you suggest and post back later. Thanks. :)

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by t_tangent » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:59 am

Ok So I renamed Scope PCI folder, then opened Scope XITE, deleted every module in the routing window and rebuilt the project with just some basic I/O modules and the STM 2448 X. Lowered the Samplerate to 44.1, and I am now able to get 1 SB404 running. But if I try to add a second SB404 I get another slightly different capacity limit error.
Capacity Limit 1.jpg
Capacity Limit 1.jpg (149.42 KiB) Viewed 2215 times
But...I can load up lots of other synths without any further error messages.
Capacity Limit 2.jpg
Capacity Limit 2.jpg (229.84 KiB) Viewed 2215 times
So I guess this indicates that there is something wrong with SB404 v2, and perhaps even though the devs may have fixed what was previously wrong with that device, maybe something else has been broken in the process. I will report this as a bug to support and see if they can look at it. But at least it looks like it is just this device. I guess it was just coincidence that the first device I tried after setting up Scope 7 was the SB404.

If anyone here on the forum using an XITE and running Scope 7 can try loading up more than 1 or 2 instances of SB404 and see if they have a similar issue. Scope 7 XITE 64 on Windows 7 Pro 64. Thanks as that would help in letting the devs know if this is indeed a bug with SB404

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by jksuperstar » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:44 am

I know that Faxinadu had worked with S|C regarding sequencers in general, and found a fix for a.long time XITE issue that effected SB404 (sequencer) as well as Modular sequencers.

The issue was that the devices needed to be assigned to only a specific DSP to work. I am guessing with "SB404 V2" the root cause of the issue wasn't solved yet, but a fix was added to the device. Since part of the fix was for somethings to be placed only on a specific DSP, that may come with limits such as only being able to load/use 1 SB404 in a project...I don't know though. But that gives you some background on the SB404 issue, and what may have an affect on other .devs that have midi sequencing built in if you see similar problems.

Also: STM2448X (and also STM 4896) is distributed across DSPs 7-10, so it shouldn't be assigned specifically to any 1 DSP.

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by t_tangent » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:46 pm

Thanks jksuperstar. I will have a look through the forum to see if I can find more info about faxinadu's fix and placing the SB404 on a specific dsp. It does sort of ring a bell now you mention it. So yes very helpful and thanks for that.

Thanks also for the info on the STM 2448 X mixer, and that makes things a lot clearer now. Much appreciated. :)


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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by JoPo » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:12 am

But, when you try to launch your project without the SB404, do you still get the message ?
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by t_tangent » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:54 am

No. Project works fine without sb404. I can get 1sb404 working but adding 2nd gives error. Will double check later as am right now

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by t_tangent » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:31 am

Ok, had time to try that again, and yes project works fine when I launch without SB404. I was also able to load a project that was saved with 1 SB404, but some presets cause capacity error and the synth needs reloading in order to get sound back.

Managed to get 1 SB404 running, but then I selected another preset and now presented with a new error. Module SDRAM XiteDelay is not appropriate for your hardware...

I quit Scope XITE OS and restarted, loaded up SB 404 and selected another preset and had some other error about cant find Mix 1 module

So as far as I can see this device has not been fixed 100% or something else in it is broken.

As a comparison I just loaded about 21 other synths all randomly selected and that loaded and plays fine, so yes the work spent optimizing Scope 7 is very much appreciated. But I have given up trying this SB404 out and will wait until they try to fix it properly

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by Bud Weiser » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:00 pm

t_tangent wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:31 am

As a comparison I just loaded about 21 other synths all randomly selected and that loaded and plays fine, ...
Which ?
Are you able listing ´em ?

Would be great to know what works flawlessly when loading and leaving alone w/ S|C´s XITE DSP distribution !
32 and 64Bit separately please,- if possible.
If you´re on 64Bit only,- then just this.
Maybe other´s come up w/ similar stuff for 32Bit systems.

I think, for the future and newbies, it would be great to have some spread sheet available for waht works out of the box and what needs some "help" in the sense of "workarounds" or manual DSP assignment,- at least for a period of time until more and more gets fixed.
Could be useful for some kind of user-manual addendum too ...
t_tangent wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:31 am
... so yes the work spent optimizing Scope 7 is very much appreciated.
Excellent news !

:)

Bud
S|C Scope/XITE-1 & S|C A16U, Scope PCI & CW A16U

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by t_tangent » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:07 pm

Hi Bud,

Ok I will try and set up a new project again as I deleted the last one because it was just a quick test to see what would load, so I hope it wasnt just a one off, haha :) Earlier I just went to the synth devices dir from Scope's drop down file explorer and dragged across one of every SC synth that was in that directory. I think those are all set to 1 voice polyphony by default and I didnt try to add more voices, but I might try to add a couple voices on some to test that out next time. I also added a couple of other third party devices including CWM Blackbox. Will also try some of the other 3rd party devices. Also, I didnt do any manual allocation at all, just left it to Scope. I didnt try adjusting any presets on that earlier project so I will try to do that on the next one and see which devices work well and others that might not.

I am running Scope 7 XITE 64 on Win 7 Pro 64. I also have Scope 7 PCI 64 on same partition but will leave that alone in the background when I do this test. I havent had time to update my 32bit partition yet but will try to do similar test on that when I have more time.

Yes a spreadsheet would be good if I can find my old copy of Excel. But I'll make a list of devices that work well and others that might have issues. For example we know that Solaris has some polyphony limitation on XITE and also in 64bit some presets might crash Scope if they use the sample slots, but I'll see what I can get working and post back. It would be good if we could get a few XITE users trying the same project out or similar so as to get a more realistic idea of what works across the board, as there might possibly be some variation of what works on one xite mght not work on another, due to PCIe bandwidth etc.

But yes it does seem that Scope 7 has been optimized quite a lot. It just seems smoother, quicker and more efficient compared to Scope 5.1. So many thanks to Holger and others involved. Still things that need to be fixed of course, but as the saying goes, "start as you mean to go on" :)

If you can give me a day or 2 to do this as I might be out tomorrow but will try to set this up asap :)

Cheers mate

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by Bud Weiser » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:23 pm

t_tangent wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:07 pm
Hi Bud, ...

If you can give me a day or 2 to do this as I might be out tomorrow but will try to set this up asap :)

Cheers mate
Hey, no pressure at all !

32Bit / 64Bit ... every report is welcome for sure !

Once I have the time and room to set up my studio better and install SCOPE v7, I´ll come up w/ reports too.
So, what I can find out by reading other´s reports is big help !

The "spreadsheet" was a general idea and not meant to be your task.
Maybe we all in the forum collect experience w/ S|C and 3rd party devices running in SCOPE v7, 32 and 64Bit separately and in a different thread we can use as a info base for such spread sheet later.
I´m pretty sure experiences will change when SCOPE 7.1 will appear,- so it will be some future task.

Anyway,- I look forward your report once you´ve set up your lost project again.

good luck and all the best

:)

Bud
S|C Scope/XITE-1 & S|C A16U, Scope PCI & CW A16U

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by t_tangent » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:54 pm

As promised, I loaded up a new project with most the SC synths that come with Scope to the XITE routing window. Connected each one to STM2448X and did no further optimising. Selected diffrerent random presets on each device and that all worked without an issues.
I am triggering these from a Cirklon sequencer, but since I only have one midi port allocated to the XITE from my external sequencer I have set a few devices to the same midi channel.

This was tested on Scope 7 XITE 64, on Windows 7 Pro 64bit

Project is using the following devices.

B-2003
BlueSynth
EDS16i V2
EZSynth
Inferno
Lightwave v5
Lightwave v7
Lightwave
MINIMAX v7
MINIMAX
miniscope MKII
miniscope
Poison
Prisma
Prodyssey
Profit 5
proTone
Six-String v5
Six-String
U KNOW 007
UKNOW_v112tm
Vectron Player
Vectron
And finally John Bowen's Solaris v4.1

That is 24 synth devices running on this project.

All devices are at 1 voice polyphony apart from the B-2003 and the EDS16 V2 which are unlimited by design, the two six string which I set to 4 voices, and the Profit 5 which I set to 5 voices. I was able to add more voices on several other synths, but I wanted to leave a little headroom for dsp loading and in order to reload the saved project without any problems.

Routing windows showing all the devices loaded in to project.
Routing Window.jpg
Routing Window.jpg (188.98 KiB) Viewed 1940 times
DSP Load, etc
DSP Load & Devices .jpg
DSP Load & Devices .jpg (121.28 KiB) Viewed 1940 times
STM2448X with all tracks playing the synths
STM2448X.jpg
STM2448X.jpg (509.27 KiB) Viewed 1940 times
I will try to load the project when I can find out how, and also a short example piece of all the devices playing sequentally.
When I have time I will also try to swap out some of the devices and try out some of the third party devices and see which ones work well and others that have issues loading up. I dont have time to try every parameter on these devices as this is just a rough and ready exercise to see how the devices load up on Scope 7. So far the only one that is really causing a problem is Sb404. There may be others that have some bugs here or there, such as the sequencer bug, etc. But otherwise I am very impressed.

Hope that helps some :)

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Re: Capacity limit of DSP cards Scope 7 XITE 64bit, but HARDLY ANYTHING loaded

Post by t_tangent » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:10 pm

Ok, I have added the project if anyone wants to try this on their XITE, it should load fine but does take a short while to load up.
XITE64 Synths test Project.zip
(956.44 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
Also I have added a zipped copy of a 2 minute example mixdown encoded to MP3, just to show the synths all playing back fine. Just take it at face value though, this was not intended to be a masterpiece, just some random patterns thrown together, but hopefully will give an idea that 24 synths can play back fine on the XITE :)

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