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 Post subject: Re: ASRock Z270/i7 7700k
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:00 am 
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just a tip, but if you are fine with a 4790k then you will probably be fine with a 4770k as well. It's not complicated at all to put the multiplier on the 4770k to 43x and the CPU voltage to 1.3V, if you have a decent cooler. I've done so on mine, so the CPU runs fixed at 4.3GHz, and on heavy benchmarks such as Prime95 (which is basically stressing the CPU to the absolutely max) i get no throttling and the temp is around 65-67 degrees Celsius. This is on a EVO212 air cooler (http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/cpu ... r-212-evo/).

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Last edited by next to nothing on Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ASRock Z270/i7 7700k
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:02 am 
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All 64 Channels loaded fine and while I only use 24 these days, the extra headroom from a 4790k allows heavier submixing in Host Application.
I usually use 14GBs of RAM 4 Kontakt Instrument Banks, PLAY Hollywood Strings, PianoTeq 5, Zebra2HZ, Keyscape and Omnisphere.
An additional 36 channels of audio clips are submixed down to 2 x ASIO too.

Omni and Zebra are core locked to CPU 2 and 3 and use 60% and 75% respectively.
On the 7700k it's lower by 10%.
So the extra 200MHz helps.
At 5GHz there was maybe an additional 5%, hardly worth the risk of excessive heat.

I'm more into compatability with chipsets than brute force these days.
As long as Scope moves ahead without being trampled by planned obsolescence from Int€£ and Micro$oft I'm good to go.

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 Post subject: Re: ASRock Z270/i7 7700k
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Great to see that all 64 Asio channels could be used with both those beasts (I'd probably never use anywhere near that many channels with my small modest projects, but it's awesome that capability is there for others who may need it. In conjunction with super large DAW sub-mixes and Wave drivers that 64 Asio channels should handle the most demanding projects generally.)'

As for that 10% performance increase you stated the 7700k has over the 4790k, that's around the typical small bump each new generation gets usually. It's usually around 10 or 15% with rare surprises. That 10% advantage the 7700k has may not all be due to the .2ghz speed increase but something else in the newer architecture. You would need .4ghz for 10% speed increase on a 4GHZ processor thus .2ghz is only accounting for 5% increase. But there may be something else I'm not understanding so I definitely could be wrong.

That's very interesting that when you did a huge overclock to 5GHZ there was only a 5% performance increase; overclocking in this situation seems like a total waste, with all risk and little reward.

This is invaluable stuff, you've been a lifesaver :o ..


Last edited by Sounddesigner on Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ASRock Z270/i7 7700k
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:58 pm 
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ASRock always comes out with server versions and workstation versions later in their ASRock Rack section.
I found these to be long life, no frills audio friendly beasts.

Cant wait for the Z270m WS.
If it's anything like the Z97m WS it's a must have.

Im actually quite happy with headroom on the Z97/i7 4790k CPUs.
Just wanted to make sure Scope could move ahead using Windows 10 and Z270s.

A Z270/i7 7700k is a great ASIO rig though, there's a Z270 Pro 4 from ASRock with 32bit PCI Slots too....

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 Post subject: Re: ASRock Z270/i7 7700k
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:26 am 
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dawman wrote:
ASRock always comes out with server versions and workstation versions later in their ASRock Rack section.
I found these to be long life, no frills audio friendly beasts.

Cant wait for the Z270m WS.
If it's anything like the Z97m WS it's a must have.

Im actually quite happy with headroom on the Z97/i7 4790k CPUs.
Just wanted to make sure Scope could move ahead using Windows 10 and Z270s.

A Z270/i7 7700k is a great ASIO rig though, there's a Z270 Pro 4 from ASRock with 32bit PCI Slots too....


Hi, I read the chain and it looks like you've got the i7 / 7700K to work.
I have ASUS STRIX Z270H / i7-7700K/ GTX 1080ti, W10, but there is a problem with ASIO which does not work or it only works for 2-10 channels.
Do you really have all XITE-ASIO 24 channels?
Can you confirm the i7-7700K configuration where everything works?

Did you make bios adjustments or did you work directly?
If your configuration works, can u tell what exactly are the components you are using, such as motherboard, memory (speed), graphics card,
Bios settings if you need to change / set. etc

It would be nice to hear a confirmed configuration.
I think I can use the current 32GT memory, Processor i7-7700K, the GTX 1080ti graphics card, but I need a new motherboard obviously.

I think I'm offering you a beer or a popular lonkero.

thanks...very many.

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 Post subject: Re: ASRock Z270/i7 7700k
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:40 am 
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SamT I didn't do thorough testing, onlny verified audio, SSDs, M.2's and ASIO in Bidule.
There's a chance I got the Z270 to work because of a tweak to the portaudio.dll by the developers from Plogue.
I would wait until I can either take the RME AIO/FL Studio PC apart and re install with another DAW more thoroughly, or get the i7 4790k/Z97.

Later this summer I am going to try some AMD boards out since they are cheap.
The AM4 chipsets are suppose to work on all of their CPUs, so a cheap 1500X would be fine for testing.

Id hate to see guys dropping 1,000 bucks and not getting their rigs to work.

Changing the thread title before anything else goes wrong..

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 Post subject: Re: ASRock Z270/i7 7700k
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:17 am 
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dawman wrote:
SamT I didn't do thorough testing, onlny verified audio, SSDs, M.2's and ASIO in Bidule.
There's a chance I got the Z270 to work because of a tweak to the portaudio.dll by the developers from Plogue.
I would wait until I can either take the RME AIO/FL Studio PC apart and re install with another DAW more thoroughly, or get the i7 4790k/Z97.

Later this summer I am going to try some AMD boards out since they are cheap.
The AM4 chipsets are suppose to work on all of their CPUs, so a cheap 1500X would be fine for testing.

Id hate to see guys dropping 1,000 bucks and not getting their rigs to work.

Changing the thread title before anything else goes wrong..


Alright. clear.

Well throw the ball to others ....
If anyone has a functional Z270 line-based i7-7700K configuration then they can yell at loud loud YEEEs.

My old slow HP i7 / Win10 works great with Xite-1, but the problem is that it's a really slow machine. And Asio work with all channels. I tested the new Roland plugs and those eat almost half the power of the machine. (System-8, Juno-106, Jupiter-8, System-100 etc.)

7700K will kick you pretty comfortablyj and Roland plugins running well.

It would be interesting to hear how Ryzen 1800X works with audio programs.

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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:27 am 
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Well I am going to test the 1500X first, and if it works its from the chipsets.
AM4 will support all Ryzen CPUs so fingers crossed there.

My long support from Plogue developers had made fixes for me over the years.
I shall try to get an explanation on why their x64 portaudio.dll trick works.
I had to change some code that dealt with WASAPI.

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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:36 am 
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dawman wrote:

I shall try to get an explanation on why their x64 portaudio.dll trick works.
.


What does this "x64 portaudio.dll trick" do?

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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:45 pm 
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Have no clue but was given fixes on different occasions by the Devs with instructions on changing the code manually, or received a new exe.
Since the Bloomfield i7's the x64 portaudio.dll seems to always need extra code which they always provide.
Right now I see 2 x instances of PianoTeq in my Bidule window, even though only one is active, and projects can only be loaded from the desktop instead of Start, Task Bar or Program Files/Plogue/Bidule/Layouts folder.
Each fix made something else work differently, but I suppose what it takes to keep Bidule & Scope working.

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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:56 pm 
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dawman wrote:
Well I am going to test the 1500X first, and if it works its from the chipsets.
AM4 will support all Ryzen CPUs so fingers crossed there.


Well AMD socket AM4 motherboards come w/ 4 (four !) different chipset variants,- X370, B350, A320 and A300.
Now test ´em all across motherboard-manufacturers/ brands, w/ different processors and especially AMD,- w/ only the RAM accepted by AMD´s QVL.
In the AMD Ryzen tests I´ve read and already mentioned in the other thread, the test systems were much more picky w/ type of RAM than Intel systems were,- probably another hurdle in addition and maybe more than ever when large amounts of RAM will be the demand as well.
So, better test w/ 32GB RAM or 64 where you have to use the large (8 or 16 GB) RAMsticks,- and see if this is possible at all and listed in AMD´s QVL.
In the tests mentioned above the AMD systems only worked w/ DDR-4 2667 even mobo manufacturers advertised DDR-4 2133 and 2400 !
When I read such stuff I refuse believing AMD will be the better solution than Intel now.

The processor-socket alone doesn´t matter much,- it´s all about the right chipset and the motherboard design around a given chipset.
Same rules for Intel socket 1151 and processors using this socket,- they aren´t the culprit when XITE doesn´t work as expected.
The motherboard and chipset are and the socket´s number is just only the indicator for it working or not.
All we know is that almost everything BEFORE socket 1151 worked,- at least socket 775 and 1150 motherboards.
Are/ were they Win10 ready ?
The software industry moves on.
Win7 will be discontinued soon too and it will not last for long until we´re forced to use Win10 since we use(d) many other software in harmony w/ SCOPE.

:)

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Windows 10 is fine and works fine, but the plan is to have everyone on the web, in the cloud with NOTHING on a local computer.

for those who haven't figured it out, it's time to consider Scope hardware and software as audio tools and not computer toys, that is, if you want to enjoy Scope hardware and use it for it's intended purpose.

i've said it many times, there's nothing wrong with playing with the computer, if that's what makes you happy. most of the angst isn't about what can or can't be done, however. it's about the goals of the computer industry. really, those goals aren't mine. i want the computer as a tool, not as culture itself. again, this is my own personal, old guy opinion.

also, please don't misunderstand. i want Scope working in the latest computers RIGHT NOW as much as anybody.


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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:34 pm 
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garyb wrote:
...., but the plan is to have everyone on the web, in the cloud with NOTHING on a local computer.


When that happens, I will not use a computer at all anymore as also not a smartphone.

garyb wrote:
for those who haven't figured it out, it's time to consider Scope hardware and software as audio tools and not computer toys, that is, if you want to enjoy Scope hardware and use it for it's intended purpose.


Well,- nice prospects !
Especially because SCOPE and related hardware NEED a computer.

garyb wrote:
i've said it many times, there's nothing wrong with playing with the computer, if that's what makes you happy.


Thx,- I hate computers.
My profession as a musician, especially being a keyboardist, forced me using computers already early 80s when the Commodore 64 was available.
Today I wished it never happened.

garyb wrote:
again, this is my own personal, old guy opinion.


I´m a old guy myself ..., eventually older than you are ...

garyb wrote:
also, please don't misunderstand. i want Scope working in the latest computers RIGHT NOW as much as anybody.


Yes, I know and I also understood you´re not S|C ...
But and as you said,- XITE is not a computer toy.

XITE-1 officially costs EUR 3.890,- and IMO it´s understandable owners of XITE want to use it to it´s full potential, not only a fraction of.
Users might expect some resale value for XITE and software devices too.
It will be hard to explain a potential buyer has to ressource computer trash to make it work in future.

XITE is a piece of external hardware.
Windows (10 or not) does not know what it is and XITE doesn´t know if there´s Windows on a computer as long as there isn´t a driver w/ the instructions in between.
SCOPE moved on from Win XP up to Win 7 (64Bit w/ some limitations) ...

I don´t believe that cannot be done for Win10 and higher as well as for new and upcoming hardware.

:)

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:25 pm 
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of course.

there's no reason not to use Scope stuff to it's fullest potential right now. yes, things could be otherwise, and yes, that might be good. i'm only speaking of perspective.

then again, i can't understand the idea that Scope hardware is expensive. 4000euro might be a heck of a lot of money to me right now, but i have a lot of gear that doesn't sound much better or do all the things the Scope stuff does, that cost much more for less. of course, just what those items are and the specific job they do, makes them more than worth the money. it's great when something makes things easy, but that's not what makes things valuable or worth using, either, except when it does...the point is, people are being phased out of what makes music, even electronic music, wonderful. i wish i could express this in a more clear fashion, but somehow much of the world has lost the love and is now just interested in the image of the love...

4000euro is cheap for audio gear. it's expensive for consumer toys, but even as consumer toys, it's at least as cool as a Ferarri LeFerarri convertible and just as impractical for mundane tasks like picking up groceries. it's too late now, but at the start, Creamware should've charged a HECK of a lot more money. the company would be quite strong now.

:lol: rant over...

i suspect that some Z270 motherboards DO work and that for the one's that don't, there will be bios revisions that make them work, assuming a few people let the manufacturers know about their problems. there may be other types of industrial cards that may also be affected. the socket 1155 motherboards never worked with PCI cards. everyone was sure that socket 1156 was the end of the line. then socket 1150 came out and worked wonderfully. there are always some problems when new designs are implemented. that's why we communicate here, to share experiences and learn faster than just making mistakes alone. thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:45 am 
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I do not know if this is the right place to ask, but why did Sonic Core not write the official W10 drivers? However, the current driver works so why Sonic Core has not acquired signatures for the driver. In fact, I used the Xite-1 and W10, and not any problems with the operation. But now that I change the machine, I have this problem with Asio2. Win 10 is not a problem.However.
Xite-1 is meant for win machines so it feels a bit odd.

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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:18 am 
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garyb wrote:

i suspect that some Z270 motherboards DO work and that for the one's that don't, there will be bios revisions that make them work, assuming a few people let the manufacturers know about their problems. there may be other types of industrial cards that may also be affected...


That´s a statement now.
In a former post here or the other thread I said it might be best not buying anything NOW and waiting what happens when the computer hardware incl. chipsets is been tested by audio-hardware and software manufacturers.

That´s what I´ll do now,- holding back my money and use my old socket 775 Gigabyte, Win7 32Bit and Intel quad Q6600 for XITE.
But cannot upgrade to Reason 9.5 when not building a separate 64Bit machine and buy a new audio interface,- p.ex. RME.
The machine will be too lame for Studio One Pro 3.5 too, so Reaper will be the choice.

garyb wrote:
... there are always some problems when new designs are implemented. that's why we communicate here, to share experiences and learn faster than just making mistakes alone. thanks.


Yes,- and that´s why I try to understand what´s not working here really.

You said, drivers aren´t affected by chipset http://forums.scopeusers.com/viewtopic.php?p=328985#p328985 and you also said it all matters how the motherboard handles data.
I take it that you´re right ...

Now, when investigating z270 mainboards, I see at least 1 PCIe x16 (gen3) slot, another PCIe X16 (gen2) working on x8 speed in many cases as well as PCIe x4 or some PCIe x1 (gen2) which is what we want for XITE even PCIe standard 1.5 might be enough,- and there are now 2 M.2 slots where you can choose for SATA3 or PCIe connectivity.
In PCIe mode, the M.1s are typically PCIe x4.

While z270 PCIe standard is 3.0, the configuration for expansions is 1x, 2x, 4x (whatever that means) and there are 24 PCIe 3.0 lanes at max., it supports the following "Processor PCIexpress PORT" configurations:
1x16 or 2x8 or 1x8+2x4
You can see it all here https://www.intel.de/content/www/de/de/products/chipsets/desktop-chipsets/z270.html.

In fact I dunno what the difference in expansion´s PCIe configuration and processor PCIexpress port configuration really is, but I imagine it might be the key.

The XITE PCIe card is PCIe standard (gen) 1.5 or 2.0 ?
So, when there´s a free PCIe x1 (gen2) slot w/ an exclusive IRQ available on a given board, not sharing any USB 2.0, 3.0 or 3.1 controllers, it should work,- no ?
Up to now I thought that is what we expect.

But when the scenario mentioned above doesn´t work, I guess there are some changes in the PCIe bus adresses/architecture or similar now.
Also, when looking at the chipset´s diagram,- I recognize the Intel integrated 10/ 100/ 1000 MAC, Intel internet connection device is sitting on the PCIe x1 and System Management-Bus.
https://www.intel.de/content/dam/products/catalog/global/images/16x9/z270-chipset-block-diagram-16x9.png

I might be wrong, but to me that means, when the machine is connected to the internet via the one and only RJ45 connection available on most mobos, a/the PCIe x1 card always shares IRQ w/ the internet connection,- no ?

So I wonder if the XITE´s PCIe card might not be fully compatible anymore and waiting for any firmware/software updates might be completely worthless.
Maybe we need a new card in future,- maybe x4,- and not new drivers etc. in 1st place ?

:)

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:23 am 
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SamT wrote:
... why did Sonic Core not write the official W10 drivers? However, the current driver works so why Sonic Core has not acquired signatures for the driver.


Costs and not enough manpower perhaps.

OTOH, I don´t think the drivers are the culprit.
Maybe they are part of, but not all.

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:36 am 
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SamT wrote:
I do not know if this is the right place to ask, but why did Sonic Core not write the official W10 drivers? However, the current driver works so why Sonic Core has not acquired signatures for the driver. In fact, I used the Xite-1 and W10, and not any problems with the operation. But now that I change the machine, I have this problem with Asio2. Win 10 is not a problem.However.
Xite-1 is meant for win machines so it feels a bit odd.



getting the drivers signed is freakin' expensive.
the next driver will probably be signed, however.


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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:38 am 
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i don't think the problem is the PCIe card, anymore than the problem with PCI cards and socket 1155 machines was the PCI cards.


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 Post subject: Re: Disregard Thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:35 pm 
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My ASRock Z97m WS board has no PCI-e 1X PCI 2.0 slots.
It has all PCI 3.0 (Blue) slots and the PCI-e 4X slot is where my PCI 2.0 PCI-e 1X connector card is seated.
It's my best DAW box actually.
Fast, cool and quiet for a 1U.
Using the Dynatron 1U L3 water cooled CPU AIO.
Side firing Dynatron Fan for PCI Slot area keeps things cool too.

I have 3 x different PCI-e 1X cards.
2 are HDMI the other is the older card which also works well...

Also use a PCI-e 1X riser card/Ribbon for horizontal placement of the card in a 1U.
Everything's fine.
But whenever there's heat that's when I saw problems.
These outdoor globally warmed summertime shows are hard on the PC and XITE-1.
Temps must stay around 65C Max or shit becomes uncool....literally.

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