with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

The Sonic Core XITE hardware platform for Scope

Moderators: valis, garyb

jksuperstar
Posts: 1526
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:57 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by jksuperstar » Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:13 am

(posted about using z-link, but you have an A16 mkII, so that won't help...)

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21554
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by garyb » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:06 am

i believe that you have encountered a problem, but there aren't any fundamental problems between those two units. none.

DragonSF
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by DragonSF » Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:01 am

OK, I got my device back - checked by Gary, who found no problems.
I stripped my PC down to nothing but the PCIe XITE interface and still seeing the 3 problems:
- no sync on ADAT when A16 is master
- crackles on ADAT A, when S/R is > 32k
- crackles on ADAT B, when s/R is > 44.1K

I contaced ferrofish again, mayby Juergen has new ideas. As last resort, maybe I'll try to get hands on a used Behringer ADAT. Other advices are appreciated.

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21554
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by garyb » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:06 am

yes, it was perfect here.

that's very troubling...

User avatar
t_tangent
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: UK

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by t_tangent » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:14 am

Not sure if this helps you but thought it was worth mentioning. I have my older Scope PCI cards connected via ADAT to my XITE-1. When I have both Scope PCI OS and Scope XITE OS running and then connect ADAT Modules from XITE to PCI I sometimes get crackling on one of the ADAT ports, sometimes even on both. I usually have Scope PCI set as ADAT master (samplerate 48KHz) and XITE as ADAT slave. But I found that if I change Scope PCI to ADAT Slave and Scope XITE to ADAT master and then wait a few seconds, then even if I switch back, the crackling has gone. This works for me.

I figure its worth a try just in case. Hope that helps. Also check the XITE PCIe card is correctly seated in the motherboard

DragonSF
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by DragonSF » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:14 am

I tried to put the card into every possible slot, result was always the same.
I got hands on a different ADAT interface. Result:
connected the new device with the A16: no crackles inkl. 48k
connected the new device to Xite-1: no crackles at 44.1k, some at 48k (every 10 sec when the CPU is busy, otherwise none). Sync is working.
connected the A16 ADAT B to Xite-1: some crackles at 44.1k (every 10 sec when the CPU is busy, otherwise none). Sync is not working.

Conclusion: there seems to be a problem between A16 MkII and Xite-1. I can't see any other explanation.

DragonSF
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by DragonSF » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:40 pm

Today I got my A16 replacement from ferrofish: same behavior!

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21554
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by garyb » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:08 pm

wow, that really upsets me(i'm sure it upsets you more!)!
i don't know what to say. your XITE handled ADAT exactly as it should here...

DragonSF
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by DragonSF » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:23 pm

garyb wrote:wow, that really upsets me(i'm sure it upsets you more!)!
i don't know what to say. your XITE handled ADAT exactly as it should here...
What upsets me most, is the unruly behavior. Both work fine as is with a 3rd ADAT interface and together differently on the A and B port.
And also using BNC wordclock as sync giving the best results.

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21554
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by garyb » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:27 pm

bnc should be better than lightpipe, but both should be click-free.
also interesting that it works with other ADAT devices...

DragonSF
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by DragonSF » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:41 pm

garyb wrote:bnc should be better than lightpipe, but both should be click-free.
also interesting that it works with other ADAT devices...
And also interesting is: 32K: no crackles on any port. 44.1: crackles on Port A, 48+: crackles everywhere.

User avatar
garyb
Posts: 21554
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: ghetto by the sea

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by garyb » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:49 pm

yeah, i never saw that behavior.
i think we need to exchange some emails.

DragonSF
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by DragonSF » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:47 am

garyb wrote:yeah, i never saw that behavior.
i think we need to exchange some emails.
If I can be of help, yes!

User avatar
ronnie
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Varies Between 30Hz & 20KHz
Contact:

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by ronnie » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:49 am

Have you tried increasing the latency in ULLI settings? Sounds like an audio latency issue, not a sync issue. BNC works because there's no audio sharing the pipe? Just a wild hunch. Jus' sayin'.... Sync issues would be really jitter and timing but crackles would more likely be latency or IRQ ot IO type stuff related like network, USB, video hardware, software and/or drivers. Not to knock DSP in the least but CPU power would also figure into the latency soup. Have you run Latency Mon to see what's sucking your CPU cycles? Could be something basic or weirdly unique to your PC like hardware or drivers from chipset, network, video or other audio etc. I only say these things because I don't see this obvious stuff being addressed. Likely you've checked and adjusted them. Clue is issue seems related to CPU being busy as you say. Real time shit like audio and sync and video suffers competing for cycles limiting your low end latency numbers. Bump up the milliseconds to increase the audio buffers. Can't hurt. Again, you've probably done all this so I'll put my ears down, eyes up and tail between my legs. Rolled over and out. Sigh.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays

DragonSF
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by DragonSF » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:33 am

ronnie wrote:Have you tried increasing the latency in ULLI settings? Sounds like an audio latency issue, not a sync issue. BNC works because there's no audio sharing the pipe? Just a wild hunch. Jus' sayin'.... Sync issues would be really jitter and timing but crackles would more likely be latency or IRQ ot IO type stuff related like network, USB, video hardware, software and/or drivers. Not to knock DSP in the least but CPU power would also figure into the latency soup. Have you run Latency Mon to see what's sucking your CPU cycles? Could be something basic or weirdly unique to your PC like hardware or drivers from chipset, network, video or other audio etc. I only say these things because I don't see this obvious stuff being addressed. Likely you've checked and adjusted them. Clue is issue seems related to CPU being busy as you say. Real time shit like audio and sync and video suffers competing for cycles limiting your low end latency numbers. Bump up the milliseconds to increase the audio buffers. Can't hurt. Again, you've probably done all this so I'll put my ears down, eyes up and tail between my legs. Rolled over and out. Sigh.
Yes, everything considered and tested. CPU is way beyond good and evil (4.4 GHz Quad CPU- idling most of the time). I also removed also any non relevant hardware during testing- no changes. I'll give ULLI another try, becaujse only once I tested that.
EDit: I tested all available settings: crackles when S/R > 44.1. Using the AD8200 as input: no crackles at all settings.

User avatar
ronnie
Posts: 682
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2003 4:00 pm
Location: Varies Between 30Hz & 20KHz
Contact:

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by ronnie » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:14 am

Ouch! I've had my share of inexplicable ADAT sync issues between different boxes. I generally avoid it if possible or put on different pipes than audio but even so..........pfft
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays

User avatar
53E7
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:45 am
Location: New York

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by 53E7 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:25 am

I had this problem with my XITE-1. Try to connect out AES/EBU from A16 to the input of the XITE-1 and select AES/EBU to sync to. If that doesn't work reverse. Audio will still go through ADAT. Syncing via AES/EBU worked for me.

DragonSF
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by DragonSF » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:02 pm

53E7 wrote:I had this problem with my XITE-1. Try to connect out AES/EBU from A16 to the input of the XITE-1 and select AES/EBU to sync to. If that doesn't work reverse. Audio will still go through ADAT. Syncing via AES/EBU worked for me.
I'd love to try that, but my A16 MK 2 doesn't provide an AES/EBU interface.

User avatar
53E7
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:45 am
Location: New York

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by 53E7 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:08 pm

I looked at a picture of the A16 MKII and noticed it has wordclock. The XITE-1 has wordclock as well. I (embarrassingly) don't know very much about wordclock, but if I understand correctly, it is for syncing, and I think your problem stems from bad syncing. I'd get 2 BNC cables and try that. I'll bet that will give you rock solid stability and completely eliminate the crackles and dropouts.

DragonSF
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:28 pm

Re: with 6 inputs crackles at higher sample rates

Post by DragonSF » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:10 pm

53E7 wrote:I looked at a picture of the A16 MKII and noticed it has wordclock. The XITE-1 has wordclock as well. I (embarrassingly) don't know very much about wordclock, but if I understand correctly, it is for syncing, and I think your problem stems from bad syncing. I'd get 2 BNC cables and try that. I'll bet that will give you rock solid stability and completely eliminate the crackles and dropouts.
Already done that and having above described results. WC actually helped to get a crackle-free input on ADAT-B at 44.1k.

Post Reply