How many XITE-1s?

The Sonic Core XITE hardware platform for Scope

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HUROLURA
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by HUROLURA »

Bud Weiser wrote:
Well,- there´s always the BANK ... :D
... and the risk for insolvency in case of user not making up their mind to buy the stuff designed quick enough.
Bud Weiser wrote: What about a small box incl. the MADI electronics of the A16mkII on a small circuit board and w/ a D-SUB25 connector to the XTDM bus connector of XITE-1/ 1D ?
That's it. But, there you have to design such a new board providing a smart feature compromise to make it a successfull expansion product.
It looks like MADI would be a good idea there, maybe a kind of cutdown size A16 MK II with more MIDI I/O and no direct audio I/O except for ADAT ports for example but no analog part.
- Providing MADI interface for the Xite-1 would allow to expand the Xite-1 I/O buy adding one or more A16 MK II.
- Integrating an additionnal set of 16 ADAT I/O could be a good idea as tyhis would allow to re-use other third party analog front end interface to get some specific pre-amps for example
- Integrating some MIDI I/O port would aloow to go beyond the limitation of the lonesone MIDI trio available on Xite-1 without the need to buy one extra A16 Mk II unit each time you wish to have one additionnal MIDI trio.
- Wordclock to sync all that stuff

What would you pay for such an interface providing XTDM bridge to MADI + 16 ADAT I/O + 4 MIDI I/O ?
Last edited by HUROLURA on Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by garyb »

it could be 48 or maybe even 64 i/o plus some midi.

as you said, it has to be made, and profitably. it makes no sense to kill the company to do it.

there are lots of plans. more money spent with S|C assures that many, if not most of them come true. that's the bottom line in the real world.
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by Bud Weiser »

HUROLURA wrote:
Bud Weiser wrote:
Well,- there´s always the BANK ... :D
... and the risk fro insolvency in case of user not making up their mind to buy the stuff designed quick enough.
True,- but that´s how the biz works.
As musicians or music producers, for us it´s much more risky investing in gear since music biz changed to be a "for free" and "peanuts" biz, compared to the 80th / 90th.

HUROLURA wrote: What would you pay for such an interface providing XTDM bridge to MADI + 16 ADAT I/O + 4 MIDI I/O ?
You think much too big !

I think about a very small breakout box,- just the XTDM connection on one side and 1 optical (and coax ?) MADI I/O on the other, ext. walwart PSU, size like a pack of cigarettes or such.

All the other connectors are in a A16mkII anyway.

When it comes to MIDI over MADI from within SCOPE,- I´m not sure if it will be really necessary because there´s the CopperLAN stuff announced too.
So, maybe CopperLAN makes MIDI over MADI for XITE-1 obsolete,- but remind on it as a option if CopperLAN won´t come.

Thinking on circuit board design for a single, little XTDM/MADI adapter box,- actually I´m not sure if it exists already too because I don´t have a Ferrofish A16mkII.
Is the MADI integrated in the mainboard design or is it a separate board in A16mkII,- that´s the question.

Hard to say what to pay for such a box.
A RME I64 MADI card for the Micstasy converter costs EUR 659.- @Thomann and it includes the converter MADI optical > MADI coaxial.
Maybe we could be fine w/ optical only,- I would.
Given the fact it needs a enclosure,- let´s say EUR 599.- streetprice incl. the 19% VAT.
That´s realistic to me.

What about S|C buys these from RME, puts ´em in a S|C box w/ the SUB-D25 for XTDM and sells a cable w/ it ?

That´s the way Steinberg did w/ their hardware products which were mostly re-branded RME (Nuendo converters), ESI (VSL2020 PCI card), Access (Midex-8) and Rosendahl (Nuendo Timelock Pro) stuff.
98% development costs for hardware gone and it would be out very quick.

Just only the software device for SCOPE would be left.

Bud
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by garyb »

that won't work.

rebranding an RME product and adapting it for Scope would take as much work and money as doing it from scratch, maybe more.

believe me, if it was as simple to provide the product as you think it is, it would already be manufactured.

no, banks are not a help.

as i said, there are plans, we'll have to see what happens.
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by Bud Weiser »

garyb wrote:that won't work.

rebranding an RME product and adapting it for Scope would take as much work and money as doing it from scratch, maybe more.
Was just only a example, especially for the pricepoint.
The RME product is more than we need anyway because it´s 192KHz and has AES/EBU and ADAT in parallel (that´s what the Thoman site says in german).
48Khz is what we need for connection of 4 Ferrofish, or 96KHz at best to be on par w/ XITE´s max. sample rate.
AES/EBU and ADAT we have in XITE itself.
garyb wrote: believe me, if it was as simple to provide the product as you think it is, it would already be manufactured.
O.k., but I won´t believe the MADI I/O circuit board prevents production of a interface because that´s what we have in every Ferrofish A16mkII,- otherwise it would be impossible to link 4 of these.
So, for the hardware,- it´s only the new board layout because is already clear which components to use because these are in the Ferrofish already.

To me, it sounds like the XTDM bus itself is the culprit.
garyb wrote: no, banks are not a help.
same here !!!! :D
garyb wrote: as i said, there are plans, we'll have to see what happens.
I agree !

Bud
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by HUROLURA »

Then if you think about the minimal setup:
- power supply (nice idea :D )
- 2 MADI optical connection for chaining purpose like what is available on the A16 mkII
- Wordclock (to keep everything synced)
- 2 XTDM connector (to be able to connect 2 Xite-1 units when this would be possible)

... and an expansion port to be able to add a multichannel MIDI I/O board later ... :D
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by garyb »

btw- Ferrofish is NOT Sonic|Core.... :)
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by HUROLURA »

garyb wrote:btw- Ferrofish is NOT Sonic|Core.... :)
Yes, but I wouldn't expect these 2 companies to fight agaisnt each other ... :)

And the MADI connection is not only available on Ferrofish A16 Mk II but also on some other similar devices.
The only thing is the value/price ratio is tremendous on the A16 MK II in a similar way as the value/price ratio on the Xite-1.

These two devices would be a nice setup and the only ADAT way of connecting them together is kind of frustrating ...
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by Bud Weiser »

HUROLURA wrote:Then if you think about the minimal setup:
- power supply (nice idea :D )
Somewhere above I said "walwart" ... :P

But,- if not all the pins of the XTDM and SUB-D would be in use,- it probably could be powered from there ?
Just a idea if the design allows ...
HUROLURA wrote: - 2 MADI optical connection for chaining purpose like what is available on the A16 mkII
Hmmm,- do we need that really,- once a A16mkII would be in use ?
I´d need a 16 channel converter anyway, maybe 2 ...
HUROLURA wrote: - Wordclock (to keep everything synced)
Isn´t the clock in the MADI signal like it is in ADAT, SPDIF and AES/EBU ?
I only use wordclock for sync w/ tape MTRs which could be over soon anyway,- and if not and I use a syncronizer like my Timelock Pro,- the wordclock would go:

Tape-MTR (master,- playing SMPTE), Timelock Pro reading SMPTE and transmitting MIDI to DAW sequencer / WC Out > A16mkII (slave) > XITE-1 (slave).
Only that way it varies the SR of the XITE or any audiocard according wow and flutter of the tape MTR.

That´s how I did it w/ Timelock Pro, Nuendo 8 I/O and RME card and now do w/ XITE-1 (replacing RME card).
HUROLURA wrote: - 2 XTDM connector (to be able to connect 2 Xite-1 units when this would be possible)
O.k., that´s what I forgot,- but IMO would be a simple "loop thru" connector.
HUROLURA wrote: ... and an expansion port to be able to add a multichannel MIDI I/O board later ... :D
What for ?
A16mkII has MIDI I/O.
If there will be no MIDI over MADI, it will be obsolete anyway.
If CopperLAN is coming for MIDI control, there will be a box w/ RJ45 network connectors and physical MIDI ports like the Kiss Box, which will be connected to the computer.
Or,- simple recognition of USB ports comes w/ CopperLAN, means:
Use your standard USB MIDI keyboards and 8x8 MIDI interface in addition to XITE-1 / 1D physical MIDI.

Construction and costs wise,- the biggest task might be the conversion from electrical to optical because the XTDM is a electrical connection and A16mkII is optical MADI.

Bud
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by Bud Weiser »

HUROLURA wrote: ... and the only ADAT way of connecting them together is kind of frustrating ...
This !

Bud
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by dante »

To me it seems logical as hell to have MADI on XITE. And whilst by extension it would seem logical to do MADI over XTDM because the STDM is already there on XITE back panel, I really dont know what the intended purpose of the XTDM is/was in the first place.

I can speculate that the XTDM is the XITE version of STDM, in which case it's purpose would be more to join 2 x XITE-1 together with inter DSP communications rather than digital audio. And if thats already set in stone in the XITE-1 circuits then a XDTM <==> MADI bridge would not work.

So GaryB's maxim of 'if it was easy it would have already been done' rings true to me.

One scenario could be that an XITE-2 is released with both MADI and XTDM operational for thier own specific purposes.

Speculation is fun, but thats all it is at the mo.
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by garyb »

:lol:

you guys don't hear me though....

madi over x/tdm is VERY possible. if it happens, it will be that way. the connectivity was already built into the expansion port. the product just needs to be made. if there were 4 or 5 more employees, 3 programmers and a design guy, and the money to pay them and to make a prototype and then an actual package, we'd be in business for ALL of the obvious things that would be nice or necessary to make Scope the greatest thing EVER. the plans are in place.
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by Bud Weiser »

garyb wrote::lol:

you guys don't hear me though....

...and the money to pay them ...
Let´s kidnap the pope ! :D

Ransom = 10ct / each catholic in the world = $ 1.170.000.-

Is that enough for the product and a PlanetZ forum party hangout ?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bud
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by dante »

Yes, should be enough ... and enough money for me to buy an A16II to connect to the XITE ... and enough money to fly all XITE users to Germany for the party at Holgers house :lol: :lol:
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by garyb »

:lol:
i'm in.
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by siriusbliss »

Hardware development is a costly pain-in-the-ass.
I've dealt with this end of the industry for over 30 years, and it sucks.

Development of Xite was brilliant in that SC built something that other companies could use - or even license.

Open Scope can also mean sub-licensing or branding deals with other manufacturers (such as a RME), that may or may not already be developing forward-looking products similar to the MADI interface already discussed.

In the end it's about integration with other manufacturers to forward a common protocol that gets picked up and bridged by other partner manufacturers. Back in the early days it was MIDI. Now it's Thunderbolt.

Sure SC could do it for a cost, but this is too linear thinking, and too time-consuming process overhead to get the job done.

IMO it would be cheaper to just partner up with other larger manufacturers such as even a Behringer, that has a whole friggin' CITY in China that builds hardware crap all day long.

A Behringer doesn't have Xite, and Xite doesn't have a Behringer.
Xite fits into a mid-to-high-end market niche that many studios are looking for, and that some other companies would like to access.

I have yet to see any other company build this many DSP's into one platform to date as SC has done, so I can presume that many other companies can see the value in this.

I'm hoping it will be a good Summer for Soniccore!

Greg
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by Neutron »

HUROLURA wrote:
garyb wrote:btw- Ferrofish is NOT Sonic|Core.... :)
Yes, but I wouldn't expect these 2 companies to fight agaisnt each other ... :)

And the MADI connection is not only available on Ferrofish A16 Mk II but also on some other similar devices.
The only thing is the value/price ratio is tremendous on the A16 MK II in a similar way as the value/price ratio on the Xite-1.

These two devices would be a nice setup and the only ADAT way of connecting them together is kind of frustrating ...
i think connecting by XTDM/MADI converter would be better, maybe you could have MADI in the scope environment. i was surprised they(xite and a16 mk 2) couldn't connect together at at least Zlink speed. now i have 2 a16 ultras, (one without working meters) and i have to only use 8 I/O on one of them with adat if i want to run at any samplerate over 48k.

a box with XTDM to maybe a couple of sharcs for routing, which had lots of connection options, maybe 2x Z-link, some extra dual pairs of ADAT, 2 more pairs of MIDI, and MADI.
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by dawman »

I think we expect way too much.
I bought this beast and it paid itself off in 1 month. So 34 months of gravy have been placed in my hands, where I bought a Solaris, a Privia 3XS, Ventillator for the B2003, Behringer BCF and BCR to replace all of the buttins and controllers on the KS88. Hit a 5000 USD Royal flush, and who knos how many other bills I've paid from this investment.
If they do add Thunderbolt, I hope they wait for Thundebolt II/Lightpeak, as the Copper wire Thunderbolt seems to have turned off sound card developers, except for the bold UAD guys.
But talking with Scott from ADK according to him everyone is waiting for the next version of TBolt w/o the Copper wires.
Not sure what Light peak will be, but some fiber optic laser lights like ADAT who knows.
But if XITE-1 takes until next year for bells and whistles, cool by me. But right now I am making Bank as is, so they can take their sweet time far as I'm concerned.
In my experineces when something works 100% everynight,..............why in the Hell fix it...?
But if others will buy it becasue it has some new connector, etc. that's fine by me too. I just don't see getting all excited about new problems as they never work 100% anymore like when I use to buy a synth, so I am relucatant and often fear change..........

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I do look forward to the new revised Mattomat though, it seems to fill the gaps I am interested in right now.
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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by dante »

None of my music gear will ever pay for itself coz I dont gig :) But XITE-1D is by far away the best value $2K purchase Ive made for studio.

yes MADI would have been nice but I'd never even heard of MADI when XITE was first release so what the hell....

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Re: How many XITE-1s?

Post by Neutron »

nope, i havent made much with m,y studio either. i have too many different things going on all the time. sometimes i feel guilty when i walk past the studio door :)

i ought to price everything but i think its just a little less than 50k. (its the modular, hard to price though i build most of them myself)

i dont drive a car though, and no kids, everything is "high efficiency" so cheap, and house is paid off so what the hey! I only live once.
Last edited by Neutron on Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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