XTC or ReaInserts

[dawman]

I just found some nice tricks from Nightscope on how to use ReaInserts for integrating Scope Mixers, effects and synths into Reaper.
I will try it this weekend but it sure seems like it can route external hardware and Scope devices w/ no excessive latency issues.
This negates the idea of using XTC as far as I can tell.
I was hoping for project recall and a single screen w/ a Scope Mixer being mirrored by Reaper.
Inside of a mixer track will be the effects I want and even sprinkle some VST FX if I find a few for realtime use.
This would allow me to use a very small system and hire the audio playback engineer while I do another gig down the street.....Sweetness.
I can even have the MIDI on the empty ReaInsert track where my hardware Analog synths, PCM70 or Scope device is placed.
Why would I even need XTC/VSTim...?
For 50 bucks this sure seems like a fine little app.

untitled.JPG

[siriusbliss]

Yes, similar to how I do it in Samplitude.
Set it up routing inserts as 'external' hardware routing for low-latency without necessarily needing XTC.

This way I've also tested 'freezing' the return tracks coming back in from the 'external' Scope hardware.

Much more old school but effective.

G

[at0m]

Cubase does something similar, see F4 > External Effects. It has a button to check their round-trip latency, so recorded tracks will be off-set in anticipation, and you can assign MIDI Src and Dest for each effect.

But of course, VSTi played "live" will suffer triple the latency instead of just following the sequencer > ASIO > DSP path. To circumvent that in the studio, bypass the effect until after recording - but that's not an option when going live eh

[tjsound]

Reaper never ceases to excite me. The unique program with unique capabilities.

ps. On Friday, I work in a nightclub - the first on the scene XITE with modular mixer (thanx spaseF), and Reaper.
bit nervous - express card bad fixed in slot -may lose contact..I will stick with tape.

[dawman]

Pretty much like most other DAW's until you use ReaInsert and then add the SWS Live MIDI tricks.
ReaRouting is much more in depth than the usual DAW built for studio projects.
I'll post back after Nightscope holds my hand for a couple of sessions.
Once weened, I can begin to really set several apps together with a single screen.
This isn't for me but rather to let some young motivated individual run another XITE-1 live with cackling hens. I am tired of not hustling money now and need more.
Maybe this time I can get a couple of groups going and even start a cackling Hen agency where I can pimp out the girls on weeks off to the convenetions for those lucrative one nighters.......

[auricle]

Yes, similar to how I do it in Samplitude.
Set it up routing inserts as 'external' hardware routing for low-latency without necessarily needing XTC.

This way I've also tested 'freezing' the return tracks coming back in from the 'external' Scope hardware.

Much more old school but effective.

G

The only thing I don't like about Samplitude is the way it handles external hardware - you have to set up send and return tracks rather than having it inside a nice neat 'external plugin' which could be routed anywhere in the DAW's signal chain.

[dawman]

Also worth noting about this mighty little router DAW is that the new SWS extensions ( 3rd Party ) have some pretty incredible new MIDI routings which are meant to be used for realtime use.
So thanks to the overwhelming number of DJ types demanding realtime use, old FAT Bastards like me can reap ( no pun intended ) the beneifts.
I might even just start sequencing everything and stand a life sized cut out of me behind the keyboard and operate the show with a remote.
That way I could go down the street and check on my other DAW/gig and then return to finish my cold Brew and flirt with the Waittail cocktresses....

Ankyu.

[garyb]

why is this better than just asssigning the track out to the Scope mixer and using the insert there?

[siriusbliss]

why is this better than just asssigning the track out to the Scope mixer and using the insert there?

It's not. It's just an option - especially if you're doing sequencing and automation - although I get much better results without using XTC or any specialy internal DAW routing schemes.
With the aux channels in Samplitude, I can proactively automate any 'external' Scope device without having to insert it via XTC/VSTim mode.

Greg

[garyb]

you mean as far as aux mutes or aux levels on an instrumnet/vocal channel? well, sure, but you don't need to return the signal to the sequencer mixer, it just gets summed in the Scope mixer, no? why add the extra latency correction overhead?

maybe i don't understand, i'm only asking why use an INSERT in the sequencer mixer instead of just exiting the sequencer mixer for good through the buss? you can't automate knobs on the Scope device, except when using a midi track and ccs if you're not in xtc mode, no?

it just looks like maybe there's some extra complication. probably, i just am missing the point...

[siriusbliss]

you mean as far as aux mutes or aux levels on an instrumnet/vocal channel? well, sure, but you don't need to return the signal to the sequencer mixer, it just gets summed in the Scope mixer, no? why add the extra latency correction overhead?

maybe i don't understand, i'm only asking why use an INSERT in the sequencer mixer instead of just exiting the sequencer mixer for good through the buss? you can't automate knobs on the Scope device, except when using a midi track and ccs if you're not in xtc mode, no?

it just looks like maybe there's some extra complication. probably, i just am missing the point...

You're stating my point exactly.
Why route out/back to the sequencer as an insert, when you can go 'through' the sequencer to pickup automation/MIDI/CC data and then just pass that on to 'external' hardware/Scope devices IF you want or need automation and/or IF you want to mix 'outside the box' in true fashion without adding latency.

In Samplitude I sometimes use an 'aux' channel (not really an auxiliary though) as a grouped fader for automating stuff coming back from Scope that I may want to capture to a separate track. This is the flexibility induced by NOT using XTC mode. No added routing and latency - for audio - but if you need automation or want to track the MIDI performance and then send that out to external Scope synths, then you still need to capture the audio somehow.

Greg

[garyb]

ok, we're on the same page, although i'm not sure about the last point. you're just recording the audio from the synth after you complete your arrangement? well, that makes sense.

[dawman]

The intended goal is to have Scope and Kontakt automations set up and shown in Reaper.
The basic Audio Playback Engineer ( APE ) will find Reaper more familiar and easier to use than Scope. This is just my opinion, but I know dozens of youngstas' that use FL Studio or Reaper, and Reaper has really nifty routing schemes, and the SWS Extensions can even store snapshots and scenes and call them back in realtime.
This comes form having a 64bit Pallette with all ASIO samples stored and waiting.
In Scope, one wrong move and you are faced with unnacceptable load times.
I have done this while performing and it sucks.
At the end of the day, I might just render to wav. and be done with it.
But I always find in a live venue that MIDI controlled synths in realtime have way more presence than a recording. I will decide once I have a project for comparisons sake.

I want the APE to concentrate on the live inputs and montioring while Scope, Kontakt and all other hardware can be automated. This is my personal choice. For my live work I am sifting through the options to see if I also might find this useful.
I run my apps at such a low latency that Kontakt inside of Bidule, is a meger 7msec.
I see no extra resources being used in any of the 4 cores of the i7 and live I find that even 13 msec. is plausible for live work.

Everyone has different needs and the fact I have these options is great. I will let S|C know
as well as the members here on what I find, but one things certain, Reaper is really blooming nicely. I even sent a donation to the developer that hasn't charged me a penny in 3 years, as well as the developers at SWS that made these marvellous realtime benefits.

[siriusbliss]

ok, we're on the same page, although i'm not sure about the last point. you're just recording the audio from the synth after you complete your arrangement? well, that makes sense.

Or I can just pass-through the MIDI in real-time if I'm layering with MIDI guitar, and record directly.

Greg

[garyb]

The intended goal is to have Scope and Kontakt automations set up and shown in Reaper.
The basic Audio Playback Engineer ( APE ) will find Reaper more familiar and easier to use than Scope. This is just my opinion, but I know dozens of youngstas' that use FL Studio or Reaper, and Reaper has really nifty routing schemes, and the SWS Extensions can even store snapshots and scenes and call them back in realtime.
This comes form having a 64bit Pallette with all ASIO samples stored and waiting.
In Scope, one wrong move and you are faced with unnacceptable load times.
I have done this while performing and it sucks.
At the end of the day, I might just render to wav. and be done with it.
But I always find in a live venue that MIDI controlled synths in realtime have way more presence than a recording. I will decide once I have a project for comparisons sake.

I want the APE to concentrate on the live inputs and montioring while Scope, Kontakt and all other hardware can be automated. This is my personal choice. For my live work I am sifting through the options to see if I also might find this useful.
I run my apps at such a low latency that Kontakt inside of Bidule, is a meger 7msec.
I see no extra resources being used in any of the 4 cores of the i7 and live I find that even 13 msec. is plausible for live work.

Everyone has different needs and the fact I have these options is great. I will let S|C know
as well as the members here on what I find, but one things certain, Reaper is really blooming nicely. I even sent a donation to the developer that hasn't charged me a penny in 3 years, as well as the developers at SWS that made these marvellous realtime benefits.

dude.
regardless, the automation will be a midi track and ccs in Scope mode. you will NOT be able to have the Scope gui in reaper.

[dawman]

Thats exactly what I am trying to avoid......
I want their information available w/o the GUI.

Here's some other little extras worthwhile for a young kid who knows Reaper well.

Live Enhancements.zip

[garyb]

there's no magic there. Reaper is just another sequencer. they all do the same thing, whatever one that works for you is the best, but the fundementals never change.

it's no big deal, you make the Scope project that the monkey-faced soundboy needs to use the default project. when the computer is booted by said simian, he merely opens reaper, loads the project and goes. the Scope project doesn't need to be touched. or use xtc mode. or just show him what to do and withhold bananas if he gives you any crap.

[dawman]

True, but none the less the young simians are tweakers and will be instructed to use their imagination with Reaper and change its workflow to suit their needs, but Scope will remain hidden. Kontakts GUI can be summoned by hitting the FX buttons on the track but their GUI has zero benefits. I learned from the last Cackling Hen Production that Scope is great for live work but one wrong move now means loading a 6 minute 12GB pallette that would surely be my demise. This is why I am debating using the extra quality of live MIDI controlled instruments or just rendering to wav. for safety.
I cannot afford to pay a " real " engineer and prefer one of these new style DJ's/FOH since people actually think they are somehow making the music anyways...........

There's this silly Mouse DJ that even gets to stand behind some desk and push buttons that is famous.......??? I am getting old I suppose, but I will even allow this simian to wear a giant afro like OJ Chimpson did in the Naked Gun movies..........They can be the star I dont care,............pay me now.
The beauty is when they get a big head and actually think someone is watching them and not the girls, another simian for 600 a week can take his place and wear a Green Bay Packers Swiss Chees Head................I dont care....................Pay Me Now.

[garyb]

well, automating stuff with a midi track and ccs works reliably, so you can just sequence things and do it yourself in that case. you can start/stop the sequencer with a foot switch and send the count-in only to your in ear monitor....

[siriusbliss]

Just my worthless opinion as always, but IMO Reaper is not necessarily setup well for live use.

Would be easier just to use Ableton and a touch-screen i-pad interface to start/stop cells (as songs or whatever), and just let Scope run in the background.

Greg