Xite with existing audio interface

The Sonic Core XITE hardware platform for Scope

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auricle
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by auricle »

XITE-1/4LIVE wrote:I have tested VE Pro with a friend who uses Logic/Bidule/Nuendo on the 2.66 MacPro Dually.
It is a serious powerhouse, the extra power is incredible as he hardly goes above 40% on all 8/16 cores.
We hooked up his ancient PC slave that uses the Conroe E8400 w/ DFI motherboard, and a newer AMD on another mobo. The XITE-1 worked well on both PC's, but I liked the way sampled instruments could be controlled by the VE Pro as the host w/ Logic. Audio and MIDI was piped through LAN. MIDI had no noticable latency but the audio had a little latency with and w/o the Scope synths and FX. I could feel it as soon as I hit the notes on my controller, but once the audio started being streamed it tightened up to an acceptable level. He says he changed the buffers and settings of his RME card to fix this, but I haven't tested it with him yet. But VE Pro is a perfect way to bring in 3rd party instruments along with VSL libraries, and network PC's to a Mac.
The XITE-1 connected to the Mac would have to disconnect the RME I believe, but that would be the ultimate DAW IMHO. A MacPro w/ an XITE-1, w/o the PC slaves would still be the strongest combination I can imagine. The XITE-1 would route in your analog hardware too.
XITE-1's MIDI is tight. I use a slew of external pedals to control the synths. I even use Scope's MIDI to control my analog synths externally in a loop and it works perfectly. You could use Scope synths on an upper split and the analog for Bass and be quite satisfied. I cannot find any synth from any platform that will replace the low and ultra low end of an analog synth, so of course I will not part with that. However, I find Scope synths outperfrom analog in the upper ranges and with higher polyphony. I sold my Oberheims for Bowen synths and have zero regrets.
Thanks for that. VE Pro certainly looks like a great tool to integrate many different technologies that would normally be incompatible. There are a couple of drawbacks with it though:

1) All slaves need to have a synchrosoft key
2) VE Pro on a Mac can read AU only, not VST (there are a couple of VST only plugins for Mac)

Other than that, it seems great and quite cheap.

From what you were saying about having the Xite on a Mac - sure that would be great and with the Aggregate Devices as well would allow you to use more than one interface together. But, as pollux implied - when??

No, I would have to have the Xite on a PC which could be controlled via VE Pro from the Mac or just sending MIDI and having the Xite's audio outputs going through the Ultralite on my Mac. Until I can get my head round how Xite's routing works, I have no idea how to set it up!

I'll echo what I asked before, though. How can I expand Xite's audio inputs and outputs?
auricle
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by auricle »

pollux wrote:
garyb wrote:anyway, with a mixing platform as powerful as Xite, you'll want to mix there. you'll have better tools available and you'll have access to the real world in real time(which still won't keep you from using anything in the sequencer that you were in love with)...
it's not like that for everyone :)
By having the synths and FX inside the sequencer, one can benefit of things like, for example, the tight integration of control surfaces (like the MCU or the C4) into the sequencer.
Trying to control both, seq and scope with the same csurf is a nightmare
Very true. You could have two cheap controllers each with a dedicated job. Or, a Lemur/Dexter could be used - it's connected to the network and you just select on the interface which computer you would like to control :)
auricle
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by auricle »

pollux wrote:Plogue Bidule should also do that and give you insane routing options.
I think Jimmy V's been using that for some time
Can Bidule control plugs over a network? I suppose it would accept simple MIDI messages over the network but audio would have to be sent separately (audio cables).
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pollux
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by pollux »

auricle wrote:I'll echo what I asked before, though. How can I expand Xite's audio inputs and outputs?
the XITE has two Z-LINK ports that allow you to connect an A16 ultra (16 analog ins & 16 analog outs), and also 2 adat in+2 adat outs that allow you to connect anything you like :) (a second A16 ultra for example).

There are also I/O expansion modules for the XITE announced by S/C, but there are no details nor dates yet.
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by dawman »

Most of the PPC/PT guys here in Vegas use 64bit PC slaves.
It expands their access to developments that always come to Mac last.
Plus 64bit PC's are running very well w/ 16GB's and larger templates for a much cheaper price too.
I would build a cheap PC and use the XITE-1 there. I would also use the fastest Core 2 Duo I could find ( E8600 ) and pack the board with RAM after SC releases 64bit drivers. That way if you want to, you could use the Mac or the PC, whichever works out better. I believe when 64bit arrives it will also release OSX too. But at least with the cheap PC you could always use it for sample libraires in 64bit if you decide to use the XITE-1 w/ the Mac, but the best beneift would be having the XITE-1 working now, and not having to wait around.
My Mac Bro's have seen the XITE-1 in action and are debating buying a MacPro or the XITE-1...To even be considered as an option along side of an 8 Core Mac is quite an achievement on it's own.
They already have the slaves and can get going right away.
Hopefully I don't shoot myself in the foot by losing work from their purchase. Right now I show up with analog and a DSP rack for my synths. In a mix where all VSTi's are used it's passable, but just the introduction of a Bowen synth or the SE-1X's to the mix, crushes the VSTi's like the worms they are. 16U full of FAT BASTRADS is pretty tough to beat. When the hardware Solaris is released, the punishment of VSTi's will only be multiplied exponentially.....Ankyu.
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siriusbliss
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by siriusbliss »

auricle wrote:Samplitude does look impressive but it's Windows only :(
Plenty of people running Samplitude under bootcamp, including some mastering houses. :wink:

Greg
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by siriusbliss »

pollux wrote:[Plogue Bidule should also do that and give you insane routing options.
I think Jimmy V's been using that for some time
Yes, Bidule and/or MIDI-OX are useful for insane routing schemes IF you're heavily reliant on the host-side for routing. However, Scope handles an amazing amount of flexibility with re: to routing in/out/thru hosts and/or external devices, or 'external' Scope devices that are seen as external by the host.

Greg
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garyb
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by garyb »

:)
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siriusbliss
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by siriusbliss »

pollux wrote:
auricle wrote:I'll echo what I asked before, though. How can I expand Xite's audio inputs and outputs?
the XITE has two Z-LINK ports that allow you to connect an A16 ultra (16 analog ins & 16 analog outs), and also 2 adat in+2 adat outs that allow you to connect anything you like :) (a second A16 ultra for example).

There are also I/O expansion modules for the XITE announced by S/C, but there are no details nor dates yet.
The A16 is a good option, or in my case a Yamaha 01V96V2 mixer, which has allowed me to handle both the Xite AND older Scope PCI cards in one PC, and I've been able to trick multiple synths via ASIO in Xite, which leaves all the other I/O coming in from the Yamaha for all other external instruments.

You can also obviously submix into the analog front-end via balanced/unbalanced.

Greg
auricle
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by auricle »

Wow, thanks for all the really useful replies. You guys are great :)

The A16 - is that the Lynx Aurora 16?

Here's a question that got me stoked this morning. In the modular software, is it possible to use multiple physical inputs and outputs within a patch? e.g. so I can use elements of my hardware modular within the software one. I'm not sure if Xite's latency would be low enough. If it is, that would indeed make my day - no, make my year! :)
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pollux
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by pollux »

auricle wrote:Wow, thanks for all the really useful replies. You guys are great :)
We know :lol:
auricle wrote:The A16 - is that the Lynx Aurora 16?
Nope.. It's the Sonic Core A16 Ultra.
see here
auricle wrote:Here's a question that got me stoked this morning. In the modular software, is it possible to use multiple physical inputs and outputs within a patch? e.g. so I can use elements of my hardware modular within the software one. I'm not sure if Xite's latency would be low enough. If it is, that would indeed make my day - no, make my year! :)
XITE's ASIO latency is around 3-4 ms. Without using ASIO (directly in the scope environment) it's even lower.
I'm not an expert on modular, so I cannot tell if you can use several I/Os on a single modular shell.
I do know that with XITE you can have quite a bunch of Modular shell instances, each using separate I/Os (with a single XITE you can have up to 36 physical ins / 34 ph outs), and if you have an extra converter (say a fireface 800 for example), you can also route those I/Os through Scope using ASIO.

If you want to combine hw modules with Scope modular modules, I'd suggest you to have a look at Flexor.. That little baby is totally insane.
You can find extra Scope Modular modules at CWModular and Modular Corner

Have fun :)
auricle
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by auricle »

Thanx Pollux :)

Thanks for the link, I'll check out the A16.

Yes, I would love to use multiple inputs and outputs from within the same modular patch - if that's possible then I really would be stoked for this thing! If anyone can confirm this then I would be grateful.

3ms or lower is a fantastically low latency! :) Seems like the Xite is becoming more and more of a 'must buy'.
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by the19thbear »

if you go straight into the xite routing/modular you have 0.-something latency!!
But if the sound has to go to and from your daw(cubase or whatever) and thereby via the asio drivers it will be as low as 3 ms
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next to nothing
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by next to nothing »

The modulars on the cw system are built within a "shell". The shell can have up to 8 inputs and 8 outputs. the 8 in/outs of the shell can be routed to/from whatever audio source you have available, be it from a sequencer ASIO, or physical inputs of the xite-1. I havent tried this, but in theory i don't think there is a problem with ,in example, routing the audio of a CW osc to one of the modular shells outputs, from the shell output to a physical output on xite, a cable from your physical output to your HW modular filter, a cable from the filter to a free xite input, then from the xite physical input to the modular shell input, and from the modular shells input to the next step in your modular patch. And all this with close to zero latency.

If that was what you ment :)
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by auricle »

next to nothing wrote:The modulars on the cw system are built within a "shell". The shell can have up to 8 inputs and 8 outputs. the 8 in/outs of the shell can be routed to/from whatever audio source you have available, be it from a sequencer ASIO, or physical inputs of the xite-1. I havent tried this, but in theory i don't think there is a problem with ,in example, routing the audio of a CW osc to one of the modular shells outputs, from the shell output to a physical output on xite, a cable from your physical output to your HW modular filter, a cable from the filter to a free xite input, then from the xite physical input to the modular shell input, and from the modular shells input to the next step in your modular patch. And all this with close to zero latency.

If that was what you ment :)
That's exactly what I meant!! :D That's great and expands the flexibility of my hardware modular and the CW modular tremendously! :)

Thank you!
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by auricle »

Well I've decided to definitely buy one.

I just have one more question for now, guys.

As I live in Moscow, I need to estimate all the different shipping options. Can anyone give me the dimensions of the box? (the outer cardboard box) and the approximate weight of it (with the Xite-1 inside).

Thanks.
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by pollux »

auricle wrote:As I live in Moscow, I need to estimate all the different shipping options. Can anyone give me the dimensions of the box? (the outer cardboard box) and the approximate weight of it
About this big and not too heavy :lol:
auricle wrote:(with the Xite-1 inside)
a bit heavier then :lol:

(sorry.. temptation was too big)..

it's like 22" wide, 7" tall and 12" deep
weights less than 10 pounds

Mine was posted by S|C through DHL courier.
auricle
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by auricle »

pollux wrote:
auricle wrote:As I live in Moscow, I need to estimate all the different shipping options. Can anyone give me the dimensions of the box? (the outer cardboard box) and the approximate weight of it
About this big and not too heavy :lol:
auricle wrote:(with the Xite-1 inside)
a bit heavier then :lol:

(sorry.. temptation was too big)..

it's like 22" wide, 7" tall and 12" deep
weights less than 10 pounds

Mine was posted by S|C through DHL courier.
There's one born every minute :D

Thanks for the info. I'll make the calculations.
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by johndunn »

auricle wrote:I've just ordered an Xite-1. I'll hopefully get it in a couple of weeks - I can hardly wait. I bought it mainly because of Scope's modular synth. I have various native modular software (Reaktor, VAZ Modular, Tassman, etc.) but I like to use wires in the interface so it's easy to see the signal flow. I love the sound of VAZ, by the way.

I have a hardware modular (Eurorack of various manufacturers) and I use a software based one for polyphony. I'm also excited about incorporating some hardware modules within a Scope patch. Have you ever tried this?

Mainly, I wondered how you would compare the sound of Scope's modular compared to other modular soft synths and even a hardware one.
Each of the top soft synths has module combinations - usually filters - that are unique, and if you have been using them and switch to Scope, you will spend some time trying to get back to that VAZ British sound or Reaktor clinical sound or Tassman woodwind sound or whatever, with mixed success. Same with analog synths, no soft synth can beat a good analog patch for immediacy and complexity of feedback patches. But with Scope you have a complete environment that isn't cobbled together from this and that (maybe the best of this and some mind blowing that), and so all the fuss of trying to get multiple complex systems to work together becomes transparent, it just goes away and you are left mostly with the fun part, making patches that make great sounds that make music.

It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't gone through it, like color to the blind. You know and love those sounds, especially certain sounds you get with a particular setup, that you really don't want to be without, so you know you will still need all that good stuff. Besides, it's what we modular freaks love to do, right? Put all the synths in a big pile in the middle of the room and start patching.

But with Scope, you will find that 1. the sounds are as rich and subtle as anything you have used before, 2. the modular is well thought out, especially for people who actually patch modulars, 3. some of the 3rd party stuff is amazing, and bumps the whole thing up a few more notches, and, finally, 4. YOU CAN GET BACK THERE! #4 is the clincher: I found with my analog synths, I never really learned a patch because I was constantly redoing a patch or pulling all the patchcords and putting in another fresh patch, and you never really get back to that angelic patch you got that night at 4 AM when you were half loaded and forgot to turn on the tape recorder. With Scope, you just say "yes" to all those annoying pop ups and next morning or next month you have your patch back. The whole patch, including mix and effects.

So, yes, Scope and Xite-1 can be made to play nice with your other soft synths and with your analog modular, but as time goes by I predict you will use the other stuff less and less, all those big complex projects that took half a day to set up properly being replaced by a single Scope project load. Perhaps it wouldn't be a big deal if Scope Synths and processors and mixers weren't otherwise as good as it gets, but they are and it is. You'll see.
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auricle
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Re: Xite with existing audio interface

Post by auricle »

Thanks for a great, thought-provoking reply John.

Yes, I agree that some synths have a 'character' about them that makes them different to anything else. Trying to find a direct replacement is pretty pointless with something else - and I'm not really trying to. I do love the sound of VAZ but I haven't really compared it to Scope Modular yet so I may rather use the Scope synths and not use any native at all but I'll reserve judgment until I've tried it. You're right in the fact that working in a single, convenient environment is a good enough reason on it's own to shun any other plugins - workflow is vitally important for me (as I'm sure it is for a lot of people) but as I've heard some samples of Scope's synths that have blown me away that have convinced me that Scope will be the 'heart' of my setup. I'll probably end up selling a lot of native softsynths I have (if possible as some forbid reselling).

As for my hardware modular I'm not so sure. Yes, it has it's drawbacks you mentioned - no patch recall (unless you photograph and write everything down), running out of patch cables, occasional faulty pot or socket, etc but there's no disputing the sound. The sound wasn't the reason why I bought a modular, though. I mentioned that workflow was very important for me. I like the immediacy of setting up a patch with a hardware modular - patching in cables, twisting knobs and pushing buttons in a clear and tactile way. It's not really the same with a mouse and although a MIDI controller can be used - it can't be used for setting up a software modular patch, only for tweaking existing parameters. This is very important for me and although I may change my mind after some time of using the Xite-1, it still suffers from a mouse-and-screen paradigm that made me buy a hardware modular in the first place. Yes, I could have bought a reel-to-reel, mixing desk and a load of hardware but a) I don't have the money b) I don't have the space.

That's why I'd prefer to use both hardware and software together. There are somethings that software excels at that is very difficult in hardware (large sample libraries, etc).
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