Assigning DSP's

[dawman]

Just was wondering if the results I am seeing are similar with others.
Since I am mostly concerned with my live gig for now this is how I get the projects to work for me.
Prowave needed to be semi-optimized so having the largest device in a project loaded first.

Since extra MIDI devices, and other controlling devices such as Modular use small amounts of DSP, I only have MIDI A Source Module & Headphone out as my start-up project.
Then I load Prowave w/ it's stock 2 voices.
Next I Load the STM132 X Mixer and assign it's DSP juice to chip # 7.
Open a preset that has all the effects I use, and try to make sure you don't go over 6600 in the left column of the DSP Meter.
Now I add whatever controllers I need to get Prowave happening so it's ready to play.
Now I can add B2003, and then it's controllers, then assign it to DSP # 8.
Now go to XOR # 1 and leave it at default polyphony and add controllers.
Repeat this for XOR # 2.
Then I add one of the SE-1's into the project window.
Now I add the polyphony to the synths starting w/ Prowave.
Here's the tricky part though. If you see an optimize window while raising the poly on Prowave this is fine. But on the second pop up, avoid raising the poly and take XOR # 1 and assign it the lowest number ( usually 290 ) in the left column.
Go back and raise PWave's poly to where you want it. Once I get Pwave's poly to where I want it I can assign and make all changes accordingly. XOR's get their polyphony settings and then I am done. To make sure I have no issues I save the project with all synths polyphony at their default voices. When I open the project next time I raise the poly on Prowave first, then the XOR's.
I still only use 50% of the DSP power. This is where I start seeing troubles if I add another synth, so this is all I need for now. Once the 3rd party guys get SDK and can work on their devices I am confident these synths will use poly and DSP like the MiniMax and Prodyssey do. 16 voice poly on those is easy and uses a normal amount of juice.
I know I can work fine the way I am right now, so throughout the upcoming year things will get festive as new developers and optimized stuff from 3rd party guys becomes available.
What's cool is this uses zero CPU according to my meters, so when I start loading up sampled instruments in Bidule using Gigastudio and Kontakt 3.0, I can stack and load until everything I need is completed. After that I simply add different amounts of reverb using my AUX channel, and usually don't need any EQ's but have plenty of juice left over if I need more effects.

Happy Camper..

[siriusbliss]

So, are you building up projects this way each time you start Xite/Scope, or are you simply saving the project and are good to go just loading it as a starter project at bootup?

Seems to me like a lot of work just to get all the synths loaded in such a beefy environment as Xite.

I don't have the big beefy synths yet, so I'm only getting about 15% DSP usage with Xor, Atze, and a few others already loaded with one main startup project. Adding in mixers takes up some more, but I'm not finding it to be very much.

I AM still experimenting with DSP assignments, and trying to optimize. Not sure the saved projects are maintaining the DSP assignments 100% yet.

I agree about CPU overhead. I'm able to run all these synths, mixers, etc. in Scope, PLUS Samplitude Pro with Kontakt3 and others with only a 200Meg footprint for the whole deal.

Greg

[dawman]

No I just build them this way.
I save the projects with default polyphony on the synths, and at start up raise the polyphony.
It's a sure way to get everything up quickly.
I wait forever to load my Sampled content though.
Mostly beacuse I am using 2.5 GB's from what I can tell, and that's Maximum RAM using the 3GB PAE Switch under 32bit XP Home.
Scope's sound has always been worth any hassles, but most of my complaints were having to re load CC's, etc. on the old cards. Those days are behind me thankfully.
On dark stages I found that to be slightly risky, cause one slight mistake means fumbling around while playing which is unnacceptable.

[dawman]

I am finding out that it also works well to Assign DSP's just to move large mixers or synths to an out of the way area, and then clear their assignments.
Below I use DSP 7 and then once moved I can go back and clear ( unblock ) the assignment.
I have noticed when DSP is assigned and moved around I can really pack in the effects and add polyphony. But if the DSP's are assigned and not cleared, they act as a blocker on really large stuff.
It seems as though putting the large devices like mixers packed w/ effects on DSP 7 is wise, and having large synths at the upper most numbers like 12 -18.

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[Sounddesigner]

That was what Sonic Core told me to do aswell and it does work good. If i load certain synths i often get dsp overload messages when i try to get alot of voices out of them so i do as S|C stated and assign them a dsp out the way. The assigned dsp will allow for quite a few voices and when i need more voices then the single dsp allows i unassign then increase and the load spreads better and i can then get more voices. Minimax still has difficulty at 96khz with alot of voices but some other synths can load better with certain methods. often the voices need to be added slowly aswell. Also the p100/a100/chorus-delay reverbs are hard to load at 96khz so i lower the samplerate to 44khz then insert one of them into the project window and make the connections then raise back to 96khz and it works (sometimes samplerate must be lowered and raised several times but usually works still). I'm getting far less 'dsp overload messages' as i learn how to load the devices and Voices.


EDITED

[johndunn]

Which DSPs are the new, fast ones, and which are the older, slower legacy ones?

[siriusbliss]

It was posted somewhere else, but I think the first 7 are legacy.

Greg

[dawman]

1 thru 6 are the old DSP's which are used for compatability reasons.
They also have the smallest numbers in the DSP Meter.

[cortone]

Just a note, if you are getting messages that refer to one DSP chip or another, this may help sort out which chip is which:

DSP 1 = Chip 0
DSP 2 = Chip 1
DSP 3 = Chip 2
DSP 4 = Chip 3
DSP 5 = Chip 4
DSP 6 = Chip 5
DSP 7 = Chip 6
DSP 8 = Chip 7
DSP 9 = Chip 8
DSP 10 = Chip 9
DSP 11 = Chip a
DSP 12 = Chip b
DSP 13 = Chip c
DSP 14 = Chip d
DSP 15 = Chip e
DSP 16 = Chip f
DSP 17= Chip 10
DSP 18= Chip 11

So if your error message says something like 'dsp 11 can't communicate with dsp a', you can check them in the DSP Load window at DSP18 and DSP 10 and see what the status of them are. Based on hexadecimal, normal stuff for hardware/software engineers.

Cory

[dawman]

I was wondering what the letters reffered to.
Thanks to JLCooper hardware I had to learn hexidecimal but was unaware that it applied in the XITE-1.

New discovery too.
A synth that spans multiple DSP's like Prowave, Solaris, Multisynth, LBHVIII or QWave works great when saving the polyphony to Zero.
I noticed my DSP assignments weren't being saved the way I liked, and oddly enough Modular and certain effects will load with the assignments still showing in the drop down window.
The ancient Early First reverbs love Scope 5.0 and XITE-1. They use the new preset list and remember everything again on load up, almost as if they were made for the XITE-1....
But large projects work great on start up by saving multi DSP based synths to zero polyphony.
Then just raising those synths up to the proper polyphony will allow larger projects and retain the DSP assignments even if some do not show up in the drop down menu.
I use a note tool to retain the assignments just in case.

[siriusbliss]

I've been saving all projects with all synths set for poly, but am noticing that these (now) relatively large projects containing multiple synths are taking a LONG time to load.

I also have large recording/mixing/master projects with multiple mixers, effects, and tons of I/O, and those project load much faster.

Have you notified the gentlemen that they should look into a possible issue with re: to saving projects with multiple synths applied with poly? I don't want to have to go through all my synths and revert back to zero and have to set it all up again when I load the project.

I guess I've really pushed the envelope even with Xite

Greg

[katano]

Hey,

regarding the DSP assigning, I find it ok to give the users the possibilities to do so. However, when I buy a state of the art 3000 € professional audio platform, i'd expect it to handle all this stuff itself. Why am I forced to care about the technical stuff and being prevented from doing what this is about - making music!?

My Xite works fine so far, nevertheless I'm slightly disapointed about the loading time of my large mixing project, which is taking longer to start on xite than on the Scope Pro card!? Maybe I'm just doing something wrong...

/rant_off

Cheers,
Roman

[dawman]

That's normal and until you use a totally optimized project, i.e. All S|C devices, you need to do work arounds.
For the best results when large unoptimized synths are concerned I store them w/ 2 voices and then always assign them to DSP 7. Then go back and clear the assignment and pack it with poly.
Lately I have found I prefer using Modular only w/ a B2003 and a SpaceF mixer.
It's temporary due to the nature of the gig, but as I get more sure of myself w/ Modular I see the advantages of an all Modular project with a pair of B2003's.
All of the little PITA's we have are minor inconveniences IMHO.
Plus I prefer to see what I can do that I couldn't do before, so I am thinking along those lines.
The best advantage is having the MPC from SHroomz or Wolf sending simultaneous PChnge messages to multiple Modulars and using it as a giant preset synth.
I always had to load Prowave and play another instrument, and even then I would lose audio on ocassion. Presets are a snap in Modular and the patches run out of poly and MIDI channels before they gag on DSP optimizations.

[siriusbliss]

I've been meaning to PM Holger and request that they add an assignment window in either the main project window (at the device slot) or a separate module, that shows which device is assigned to which DSP. I shouldn't have to keep track of this on a piece of paper, and if they have this option of assigning (over a more robust transparent distribution scheme), then I will need to see what is assigned to which - especially if I load an old project a year from now.

Ideas?

Greg

[netguyjoel]

I started a new project with 6 STS 2000 samplers (loading them one after another) and after trying to load a 6th one, I got a DSP overload error on DSP2. I only had 1/3 total DSP load on the meter (with the mixer some OEM synths & no FX or EQs loaded)..but still got the error. I did however, divide the load, and assign the samplers to specific DSP numbers...but samplers (fwik) don't need that much DSP power, which did fix the problem. I'm just surprised, the loading of 6 samplers, could not distribute the load, automatically, across several DSP, (like the large JB synths and others alike) without having to manually assign them. I'm just busting out some old loops I have (which was no problem on the Pulsar II card I have) (but I was using just the basic stereo sample player & Z sample player)...does the STS series really require that much juice to operate?
Just an observation, for any loopers out there, using Nuendo (which I'm know has nothing to do with it)...

[maky325]

They (probably) still need optimization or something..

[auricle]

Do we have a wiki anywhere? Some of this research work (mostly done by Jimmy) would be invaluable as a 'how to' for project optimisation for the beginner.

[dawman]

Well I loaded 8 x of the STS5000's before it asked to optimize, and since I don't use them I didn't feel like spanning them across a project. I am sure I could have loaded 16 of these if assigned in groups of 4 for each DSP chip. Probably uses system RAM too as I saw so error in regards to the XRam as they call it.

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[netguyjoel]

I'm also under the impression that the STS 2000 uses the Gen 1 DSPs, therefore, the message of running out of DSP took place. I'll try this with the STS 5000s, like Jimmy...but once the DSPs were assigned for the STS 2000...I could just throw tons of them onto the project.

[siriusbliss]

Back when I got my Xite, I initially tested the STS5000's (which were buggy early on), but I seem to remember finally getting also about 5 loaded.

It's just too bad I don't have many libraries for it anymore

They need to lift the memory ceiling now (been there since 2002 or whatever).

Greg