XITE as an upgrade path for PCI owners

[valis]

Having had some time to install and acquaint myself with my Xite box, I will use this thread to annotate my experiences coming from the PCI cards so that those who have not yet become XITE-d can understand what is on offer in comparison to their aging PCI systems. While there are NEW! 6dsp cards in the SonicCore shop, the support of the PCI card system is entirely at Holger's discretion--something for which we should be greatful--and the 14/15 dsp cards may have some limited lifespan.

One obvious benefit to the PCI cards that the Xite box does not match is connectivity. With a pair of A16u's this would be somewhat mitigated, but it's still the case that the 3 DSP card system I have has vastly more i/o both digital and analog. So, I will continue to use my PCI based system for the foreseeable future.

The benefits of the Xite box are numerous, and well documented here, but right off the cuff I can tell all PCi users two things:

1) if the Scope software is closed, the system CAN SLEEP as long as you leave the rack powered on to save its last state with the host computer.

2) The DSP power and speed of loading the DSPs is quite surprising after using a PCI card system for years. This is to be expected, but it's still a massive boost to productivity using Scope. It becomes as fluent as the native software that you are used to using, even large devices load quickly and are quickly interacted with, and the number of small and medium sized devices I can load exceeds the system's ability to communicate with (across DSPs--SAT limit, again this is well discussed).

So, highly recommended if you can afford it. My Xite and PCI systems are nearly identical, aside from the addition of 3 PCI slots on the Scope PCI system's motherboard. Both are using E3 Xeons (v6 era) and 64GB ECC UDIMMs, both have the same number and size of SSDs, and even very similar cooling systems and cases. This may change if the Xite box ever goes on the road, but for now it makes it an apples to apples comparison with the exception of the generation of the two systems (legacy PCI versus modern Xite).

More as I have time, and I will mirror this topic across both the Announcements and Xite forums for ease of access to all of our visitors and users alike.

[valis]

Note also the resources we have here for getting to grips with your Xite:

Dante's Scoperise's Archives have a wealth of Xite articles about the Xite, including:
[ur=https://www.scopeusers.com/ScopeRise/is ... xite1.html]A Look at the Xite-1[/url]
Getting Xited (thoughts as Dante was getting his Xite)
XITE-1 DSP Usage Tips
Using the XITE in a Live setting & AQOB Live with Xite

Forum threads in this forum area:
LiquidEDGE Xite tips. How to avoid annoying stuff!
XITE-1 PC CONFIGURATION REFERENCE (note Scoperise at one point condensed these posts into a single article: Xite-1 Motherboard Testimonials)

[GordonGekko]

Cool, may I ask how you would go about using two a16u with a single xite1?

[valis]

There are 2 ADAT ports & 2 ZLINK ports on the rear of the Xite-1, listed on the S|C site as: • 2 x Z-Link (16 Channels at 96 kHz)

[GordonGekko]

Yes, but those two ports (a and b) are designed to be connected to a16 a and b?

[t_tangent]

You could use the ADAT ports to connect to one of the A16 U units and the Z-Link ports to connect to the other A16 U

[valis]

I suppose if you're doing 96Khz then you'll be limited to 8 channels on the second A16U, but as I mix in analog I can simply record to 96khz on my RME machines if some project dictates that as the final samplerate.

[GordonGekko]

You could use the ADAT ports to connect to one of the A16 U units and the Z-Link ports to connect to the other A16 U

So one a16 synced to zlink and the other to Adat? Will the xite support it?

[Bud Weiser]

So one a16 synced to zlink and the other to Adat? Will the xite support it?

With XITE you can use everything I/O simultaneously, which in principle, is the same like it is w/ the PCI cards.

When XITE is the master, "word clock" (OUT) is transmitted via Z-Link, ADAT, AES/EBU and BNC.
So, connecting 2 A16U, both as slave and to ADAT and Z-Link as well, is no problem.
The limitation is 48KHz w/ ADAT and you will have to decide for a common sample rate.
I myself, I´m fine w/ 44.1 or 48KHz.

Up to now, I didn´t connect more than 1 A16U in an "all slave" to (Rosendahl Nanosyncs) masterclock configuration where everything is connected "star type" to BNC and where XITE has to be slave too.
Reminds me on, I´d have to check that out too near future,- but up to now, I didn´t need that much I/Os on XITE-1.

It seems, XITE BNC wordclock sync works for some XITE-1 owners here, for others it doesn´t.

So, I´m still waiting for SCOPE v8 progress,- not only because of the ASIO driver but also for bug fixes.



Bud

[GordonGekko]

Ok, thx
That means 32 ins/outs
Not that I have a use case for it, but good to know

[Sounddesigner]

Several other advantages of XITE over PCI Cards is:

1) You nolonger have to wrestle with and squeeze those big PCI Cards into your computer case, the XITE Card is small and easy fit.

2) XITE is designed with portability in mind and had this advantage in the past, but now we are waiting for S|C to upgrade from Expresscard to Thunderbolt/? so that can be a clear advantage again.

3) The bigger version of XITE-1 comes with really good MIC Pre's.

4) The converters are better on XITE.

[Bud Weiser]

Several other advantages of XITE over PCI Cards is:

...

2) XITE is designed with portability in mind and had this advantage in the past, but now we are waiting for S|C to upgrade from Expresscard to Thunderbolt/? so that can be a clear advantage again.

...

I agree on 1), 3) and 4) ...

According to 2),- do you have any info on this or is it just only a dream/speculation ?

I use the PCIexpresscard34 w/ "outdated" Lenovo Thinkpad W540/541 workstation laptops, which I consider being very robust, reliable and powerfull machines.
That works well for SCOPE/XITE standalone operation.
Nonetheless, it´s possible running a few carefully assorted VSTis in addition,- stuff being fine w/ 2.5 - 2.8GHz per core.
The above are i7 quad core Haswell with 16GB of RAM and SSDs and offer a UEFI (BIOS) allowing to deactivate all the E.I.S.T, C-States and Turbo mode XITE hardware urgently needs.
But it´s not a solution for large "high track count w/ lots of native plugins" DAW projects.

Now, WHEN we got Thunderbolt (3?) interface, it will be questionalble if we still find laptops w/ for true realtime processing required BIOS features.
I´m sceptical ...



Bud

[Sounddesigner]

Sorry if i was not clear, i should've worded that better. When i stated "we are waiting for S|C to upgrade Expresscard to Thunderbolt/?" I was'nt trying to imply i had inside knowledge on S|Cs Roadmap or if they even plan to fix the problem. Only saying that a fix is what we are waiting for. More hope than anything. But i will state this, if XITE is to have a bright future then a upgrade to Thunderbolt or something else will need to be. So i certainly hope it will be fixed and i'm sure S|C is aware of the severity of the problem.

[valis]

There are TB to PCIe enclosures that would work fine.

[valis]

This may interest those doing new builds: Windows-as-a-nuisance: How I clean up a “clean install” of Windows 11 and Edge

[circlingkailas]

Quick question as I still want to start using my XITE-1 that has been sitting in a box for 10 years, but scared of all the IT and build-your-own-PC postings. A recent post by Valis mentioned using a Thunderbolt-to-PCIe box. So, will this work? If I use a modern PC with thunderbolt, and connect it to a TB-PCIe box with the XITE card installed, and then connect that to the XITE, will that work?

Thanks for any advice. I am exclusively a Mac person, the only reason I have a PC for music was for my original 15-Sharc PowerPulsar.

[Bud Weiser]

Quick question as I still want to start using my XITE-1 that has been sitting in a box for 10 years, but scared of all the IT and build-your-own-PC postings. A recent post by Valis mentioned using a Thunderbolt-to-PCIe box. So, will this work? If I use a modern PC with thunderbolt, and connect it to a TB-PCIe box with the XITE card installed, and then connect that to the XITE, will that work?

Thanks for any advice. I am exclusively a Mac person, the only reason I have a PC for music was for my original 15-Sharc PowerPulsar.

Well, do you have a laptop in mind or a desktop PC ?

Thunderbolt IS PCIe.
As long you have free PCIe x1, x4 slots on a mainboard, there´s no need to use Thunderbolt at all.
Ideally you´ll use a PCIe slot offering an exclusive IRQ for XITE-1 PCIe card,- but also this is not urgently neccessary since it depends on WHAT shares IRQ w/ XITE-1 PCIe card.
The most disturbing devices are USB controllers.
When there is more than one free PCIe slot, find the one w/ fewest IRQ sharing by inserting PCIe card, reboot and execute "msInfo32" and go to hardware ressources>conflicts/sharing.
When you see a lot of IRQsharing for that slot, try the next one and repeat/compare until you´ve found the best one.

You also have the option using a PCIe x4/x8 slot for the PCIe x1 card when this slot seems to be the best choice.

I used XITE-1 / PCIe card in one of the blue "graphic cards" slots, directly connected to processor and used iGPU instead of a graphics card,- which worked fine on my Z97 board.
It was the only way to get an exclusive IRQ for XITE and for the price of some memory address sharing w/ iGPU,- which had no negative influence on audio and MIDI and only rarely introduced very minor graphics issues w/ less than a handfull of native VST plugin´s GUI.

For a modern laptop, using Thunderbolt might be the only way.
The most portable interface "bridge" might be the PCIexpresscard34 for XITE, inserted in something like that Sonnet device,- https://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo ... rbolt.html.

IIRC, there was at least 1 guy here at PlanetZ running Windows on Mac, installed SCOPE/XITE and using the Sonnet Expresscard34/Thunderbolt adapter device.
The Sonnet works for PC and Mac.



Bud

[circlingkailas]

Bud - Thanks for taking the time to write up a detailed reply. At this point I am thinking laptops, and current models. So, it may have to be a Sonnet TB-PCIe box.

I do recall that someone on this site said they were running Scope on a Mac Mini that was loaded with Windows using Boot Camp. This would be easy for me to try, although I think if it was straightforward there would be hundreds of Mac-related posts on this forum!

Thanks again!

[valis]

I would skip the Mac route (unless it's just an experiment) and grab a decent windows laptop and get to work. As long as the TB port uses an Intel chipset, you will have zero compatibility issues.

Ideally you want an Intel Alpine Ridge, or the new Titan Ridge chipset for Thunderbolt 3 (Intel allows 3rd party implementations based on the Motorola TPS65994AD controller), with support launched in 2015/16 with Intel's Skylake architecture chipsets (and Xeons) or Goshen Ridge for Thunderbolt 4 will give you the best support if daisy chainnig (TB4 also supports a new type of Hub).

Get a compatible cable with the spec of chipset you go with, and remmeber USB4 is optionally compatible with Thunderbolt 3, but most of the time simply uses USB4 "PCIe" mode.

If you purchases from vendors that accept a 30 day return window, or re-use existing gear you have on hand, you will avoid frustration from investing in hardware where there is limited direct information on compatibility (ie, there's no single approved hardware standard for us to recommend). Note I run these forums as an aid to the user community, but am not tied to S|C's support nor do I have extensive usage of every hardware configuration, and so we rely on users to report back their experiences.

[circlingkailas]

I am also considering trying to use a Startech PCI-PCIe adapter card in my studio PC. For $57 that would be a cheapest way to get to where I need to be, assuming it works. Thanks for all your help.