Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

The Sonic Core XITE hardware platform for Scope

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elfan
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Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by elfan » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:21 am

Hi everyone,

I'm not sure if I'm in the right forum now but I have some questions regarding Sonic Core cards in general. Both units like the XITE-1 and the PCI(e?) DSP cards (in particular the 14 DSP one).

I'm considering getting me an old Creamware Pulsar 2 or some new Sonic Core card for my studio setup. First of all I'm not primarily interested in the DSP plugins but mainly in using SCOPE as a mixing and routing environment and offering hardware acceleration of my VST plugins. For all my questions below you can assume that I have a computer setup that is set up correctly with working drivers for all other computer hardware besides the soundcard.

1. Does Sonic Core offer any PCIe cards? It seems like that the 14 DSP card is PCI?

2. How does the new Sonic Core products work in comparison to the old Creamware products? I understand that the Sonic Core cards offer more DSP power, but can they offer the same stability? How is the maturity of the products? If I get me a 14 DSP Sonic Core card what is the risk of me running into problems such crashing Sonic Core software, driver issues and such? I'm not worried about running into the PCI(e) bandwidth limit problem since that's always a risk when running high-bandwidth applications, I'm simply wondering about the overall stability and maturity of the products.

3. Will an Sonic Core A16 Ultra work with a Creamware Pulsar 2? Will an old Creamware A16 work with a Sonic Core card?

4. Is it possible to connect more than one A16/A16U to the XITE-1 or the Pulsar 2? I've seen that the XITE-1 and the A16U both have dual Z-link interfaces as well as dual ADAT interfaces. Would it be possible to connect the XITE-1 to one A16U through the dual ADAT interfaces (I've read that the A16/U requires two ADAT interfaces to use all 16 channels, correct?) and then connect another A16U through the dual Z-link interfaces? Or how does it work? Are there any possibilities to expand the number of I/O channels beyond the 16 channels offered by the A16/U?

5. I've understood that the Sonic Core is compatible with older Creamware products such as plugins and the SCOPE system. Of all the old Creamware hardware/software what does Sonic Core _NOT_ support?

Thanks! All help is appreciated :)!

//Tomas

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Fluxpod
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by Fluxpod » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:46 am

Hi elfan,i try to break this down for you short.
Scope xite is extern, connects via pcie on a laptop or a pc.It has around 10 times the process power of the standart 14 dsp cards.
Ok the pci cards aka 3/6/14 dsp´s.They are pci only!
There is no difference in EX creamware/SonicCore dsp cards,same hardware.
The ad/da like sonic core a16 ultra or creamware a16 or ultra connect via adat or zlink,no differences.( you get 16 i/o via zlink @ 96 khz on adat you get 8 ch @ 96 khz via smux.@44.1 khz and 48 khz you get 16 ch via adat.)
You can connect the a16 ultra to the xite via adat and another one via zlink(guessing here but i am pretty sure).
You can get a pulsar 2 with 24 adat i/o or 16 i/o zlink or just the "standart 16 adat i/o pulsar2.
And IMPORTANT:You can not use the scope/creamware cards to run VST plugins!Only soniccore/creamware plugins are beeing processed on the card itself,the vst plugins are still running on the pc(host) cpu.

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garyb
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by garyb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:48 am

the Scope cards from S/C and Creamware are the exact same cards.

there is a PCIe product to be released any moment called XITE that is 10 times more powerful than the big card. it must be used by itself, otherwise any 3 cards of any vintage can be used together.

there are only enough ports on a single card to run 1 A16. you'll need another card's i/o to run the second A16.

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erminardi
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by erminardi » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:08 am

Fluxpod wrote: And IMPORTANT:You can not use the scope/creamware cards to run VST plugins!Only soniccore/creamware plugins are beeing processed on the card itself,the vst plugins are still running on the pc(host) cpu.
Scope DSP plugins are mainly VST host compatible (in XTC mode), but you cannot load standard VST/VSTi native plugins (i.e. Native Instruments, Steinberg, Voxengo, etc.) into Scope DSP
4PC + Scope 5.0 + no more Xite + 2xScope Pro + 6xPulsarII + 2xLunaII + SDK + a lot of devices (Flexor III & Solaris 4.1 etc.) + Plugiator.

elfan
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by elfan » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:17 am

Thanks everyone for the answers and for clearing things up.

So it is possible to run multiple Creamware/Sonic Core cards in parallel and to connect these cards to one A16/U unit each? Neat :)! That is, provided that one can find a motherboard with more than two PCI slots, which might not be so common these days (I know from a friend of mine that the Pulsar card requires two PCI slots in width since the card is so wide).

//Tomas

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Fluxpod
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by Fluxpod » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:22 am

elfan wrote:Thanks everyone for the answers and for clearing things up.

So it is possible to run multiple Creamware/Sonic Core cards in parallel and to connect these cards to one A16/U unit each? Neat :)! That is, provided that one can find a motherboard with more than two PCI slots, which might not be so common these days (I know from a friend of mine that the Pulsar card requires two PCI slots in width since the card is so wide).

//Tomas
The pulsar2 cards take just 1 slot.And there are lots of very good Intel/Msi boards with 3 pci slots available.I run my 3 cards in a cheapo dell as second ..scope only pc and it works perfekt.No crashes no pci error no nothing except great sound.I have 1 pulsar 2 and 2 pulsar 1(4dsp) so 14 dsps overall.That gives me 48 adat inputs right away.Not that i need em..but having a lot of inputs sure is nice;).

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garyb
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by garyb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:46 am

the Intel dp35dp is proven with three cards.

elfan
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by elfan » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:02 am

Fluxpod wrote:
elfan wrote:Thanks everyone for the answers and for clearing things up.

So it is possible to run multiple Creamware/Sonic Core cards in parallel and to connect these cards to one A16/U unit each? Neat :)! That is, provided that one can find a motherboard with more than two PCI slots, which might not be so common these days (I know from a friend of mine that the Pulsar card requires two PCI slots in width since the card is so wide).

//Tomas
The pulsar2 cards take just 1 slot.And there are lots of very good Intel/Msi boards with 3 pci slots available.I run my 3 cards in a cheapo dell as second ..scope only pc and it works perfekt.No crashes no pci error no nothing except great sound.I have 1 pulsar 2 and 2 pulsar 1(4dsp) so 14 dsps overall.That gives me 48 adat inputs right away.Not that i need em..but having a lot of inputs sure is nice;).
Really? You can squeeze in three pulsar cards in three slots? My friend needed two slots to fit one card because it was so wide (not that it needed to be connected to both PCI slots but it needed the space). Interesting. Maybe it's dependent on the motherboard. Some boards might have more space between the slots. Anyway, that definitely sounds like a way to go :). And since I probably like to get me two A16/U boxes at some point I need two cards anyway (unless I get a XITE-1 box but that'll be a bit too expensive I think).

Thanks for the info!

//Tomas

elfan
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by elfan » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:09 am

garyb wrote:the Intel dp35dp is proven with three cards.
Ah, you mean you run three Creamware cards on that motherboard? Or is that some official recommendation from Sonic Core? Anyway, sounds sweet! Thanks for the tip. Otherwise I just tend to pick any motherboard that supports the processor of my choice together with the cards that I need.

//Tomas

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Fluxpod
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by Fluxpod » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:11 am

elfan wrote:
Fluxpod wrote:
elfan wrote:Thanks everyone for the answers and for clearing things up.

So it is possible to run multiple Creamware/Sonic Core cards in parallel and to connect these cards to one A16/U unit each? Neat :)! That is, provided that one can find a motherboard with more than two PCI slots, which might not be so common these days (I know from a friend of mine that the Pulsar card requires two PCI slots in width since the card is so wide).

//Tomas
The pulsar2 cards take just 1 slot.And there are lots of very good Intel/Msi boards with 3 pci slots available.I run my 3 cards in a cheapo dell as second ..scope only pc and it works perfekt.No crashes no pci error no nothing except great sound.I have 1 pulsar 2 and 2 pulsar 1(4dsp) so 14 dsps overall.That gives me 48 adat inputs right away.Not that i need em..but having a lot of inputs sure is nice;).
Really? You can squeeze in three pulsar cards in three slots? My friend needed two slots to fit one card because it was so wide (not that it needed to be connected to both PCI slots but it needed the space). Interesting. Maybe it's dependent on the motherboard. Some boards might have more space between the slots. Anyway, that definitely sounds like a way to go :). And since I probably like to get me two A16/U boxes at some point I need two cards anyway (unless I get a XITE-1 box but that'll be a bit too expensive I think).

Thanks for the info!

//Tomas
They fit 1 slot 1 card usually.If you want 32 inputs i suggest to get 1 pulsar2 and 1 cheap pulsar1.You can do low latency and get 32 inputs via adat.Pulsar 1 cards are going for 120 to 180 € without special plugins.Pulsar 2 cards going for 200 to 400€,depending on plugins.Good luck!

elfan
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by elfan » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:15 am

Cool! That's really cheap! I've checked eBay a couple of times but I haven't found that many cards there yet. Any other good places to look?

Thanks for the help :)

//Tomas

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Fluxpod
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by Fluxpod » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:17 am

Here in the sales or e-bay.You need to wait a little:).

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garyb
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by garyb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:34 pm

elfan wrote:
garyb wrote:the Intel dp35dp is proven with three cards.
Ah, you mean you run three Creamware cards on that motherboard? Or is that some official recommendation from Sonic Core? Anyway, sounds sweet! Thanks for the tip. Otherwise I just tend to pick any motherboard that supports the processor of my choice together with the cards that I need.

//Tomas
i've built many of these systems for clients. yes, i've built systems with 3 cards using this motherboard.

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dbmac
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Re: Creamware Pulsar 2 vs Sonic Core cards

Post by dbmac » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:00 pm

elfan wrote:
garyb wrote:the Intel dp35dp is proven with three cards.
Ah, you mean you run three Creamware cards on that motherboard?

//Tomas
I do. Works beautifully.

/dave

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