MIDI Source & Destination Pairs

The Sonic Core XITE hardware platform for Scope

Moderators: valis, garyb

User avatar
HUROLURA
Posts: 1287
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: FRANCE
Contact:

Post by HUROLURA » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:43 am

Just one guess: the new module is called Xite-1 because you "only" have 1 midi trio on it.
Then , the Xite-8 would have a full 8 Midi port interface !!! :D

More seriously: I understand what you mean Jimmy.
An 8-port midi Interface with advanced routing possibility would be a good solution as an expansion for XTDM interface: just place it on top of the wishlist.

CheerZ

dawman
Posts: 13244
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Post by dawman » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:34 pm

I might be whing now since I have to really dig in for a solution, But once I can load my favorite synths and Oscillators w/ high polyphony and have several on standby w/ large mix counts, and channel insert preset lists actually all loaded as in the FP / FB series, this slight trauma will be long forgotten.

I might even take one of the upcoming tour dates and just enjoy being a keyboard sideman again. Sometimes trying to cover the job of monitor man, FOH, strings, horns, guitars, and drums gets out of hand. But it sure keeps me busy as a bee.

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2553
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Post by spacef » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:39 am

to use a usb midi device also requires additional software such as a sequencer or midi ox (or any windows or mac midi router). Without this the usb is not available. Midi ox performs very well once you have set up the routing (and saved it for further reference). Like this you can load the 8 sequencer source/dest in the project window in parralel of the hardware Midi Input. I may be wrong but i guess it culminates at 9*16 midi channels (= 144)
This is actually the solution i use (where the external usb midi is from the midi keyboard , which is a CME M Key)

The actual midi ins on my scope are not used, but the two midi outs would be (one to another pc, one to a noah). But I screwed one of the midi outs, so now , as hardware i/o I use only one of scope's midi out, and the midi of a pci soundblaster live value (to noah). Say what you want, but the midi on the SB is rock solid . It requires a pci slot though....

Good luck !

dawman
Posts: 13244
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Post by dawman » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:11 am

Thanks Mehdi 4 The Info,

Not sure what I will do, but need to start getting this ready soon.

I have had problems with USB MIDI. When they get stuck notes I have to use a hardware panic button approach, just to unclog the pipes.

PCI MIDI is THE way for stability, but I have time to experiment.

Thanks Brosky. :)

User avatar
Neutron
Posts: 2274
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Great white north eh
Contact:

Post by Neutron » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:01 am

is it just me or does USB midi suck, timing wise.

Immanuel
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Aalborg, Denmark

Post by Immanuel » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:13 pm

Jimmy - Ok, I understand you better now. When I use MIDI, I use it to automate Scope. I was thinking from my own perspective, and since we can not assign the same controller/channel combo to more than one parameter, it did not make sense to me. I understand your situation now, and you are ofcoarse right. My "solution" does nothing for you.


Neutron - I think I've heard of MIDI audio interfaces with 30-40ms latency. That is a problem, if timing is anyway near critical.

User avatar
spacef
Posts: 2553
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 4:00 pm
Contact:

Post by spacef » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:30 pm

Neutron wrote:is it just me or does USB midi suck, timing wise.
usb midi timing is as rock solid as midi can get in a windows or mac plateform ... (it is bad anyway timing wise, even on mac, and even the midi on atari 1024 that i actually retested 3 years ago is not "perfect"). From what i experimented, it really depends on the current state of the machine (age, performance, softwares running etc etc).
40 ms midi ? isn't it about playing vsti in a regular sound card (where it is audio latency that is the 40 ms ? or more, on sb live it can go to almost 1 second, which is why you can't use it to play vstis).

pci could be a better solution.

ps: when i talk about timing, i mean "after recording in audio some midi that is in the sequencer".
The latency of keyboard note pressure to sound hearing never was a big issue to me whatever the interface (is it for some of you ? )

User avatar
zangsta
Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:25 am
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Post by zangsta » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:29 pm

Hey Jimmy, have you found a solution for the Xite-midi problem?
Maybe you´ll have to set up a new DAW, to get an extra whip?
Any size card would work, right?

Jörgen :wink:

dawman
Posts: 13244
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Post by dawman » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:26 pm

Actually I have a workaround, but I have to start using multiple MIDI Ports in GS4, and they are not capable of switching back and forth to unless you click it with a mouse.

It's an 8 port MIDI application that can load 128 libraries via 8 ports, and 16 channels pre port.

I will simply use instrument stacks on seperate ports until the XTDM options are a reality.

This way of port switching is a simple mouse click, since all of the content is preloaded into a project, I will just use 1 of the 8 ports where the instruments are stored to suite my particular needs for the song / performance.

It would require some preparations which I am undertaking as we speak.

For Example:
Rhodes sounds are never used simultaneously w/ a Wurlitzer 200A, so each EP would be a choice to have on a seperate port.

Horn sections, strings, Grand Piano, and Rhodes are mostly used, so on port one they will reside.

This means that the same MIDI channels would offer different instruments of the same catagories on the same MIDI channels, but different ports.

A final example is the strings. I would have the Symphonic Strings, ARP String Ensemble, and Melotron on the same MIDI channels, but different ports.

My particular needs will use channels 7 thru 16 ( 10 MIDI Channels ) x 8 different ports, for a total of 80 possible instrument libraries.

Since I only use 37 different libraries, the extra slots in the extra channels and ports could double certain instruments that are used more.

This is a slight pain, but it only requires that I hit a port number w/ my mouse. No problems loading during a gig, and everyone is happy as I have access to VSTi's hosted by GS4, and all of my synths will be on their own channels in Scope. :D

But this doesn't mean I am letting Ralf and the boys off of the hook.

XITE-1 customers will be asking for extra AES / EBU's like warp69 has mentioned, and many others have their needs as well.

But as our beloved Spock once said.............................................

dawman
Posts: 13244
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Post by dawman » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:19 pm

This still is a pain in the ass though.

Scope's MIDI implementation should be the role model for others to follow.

Gigastudio's 8 port LED's should have CC's attached to them. It is an incredible 8 x 16 matrix that allows such vast possibilities and layering, but no automation? WTF, they act as though someone should stay glued to their DAW.

At any rate I have solved my problem and have actually made the rig much more versatile.

In a perfect world Tascam, and SonicCore would collaborate together for new drivers, and make GS4 and XITE-1 the unbeatable combo that it's surely capable of becoming. They were wise enough to add the drivers in the first place back in 2000. It's amazing how well these 2 apps perform together, and sad that no attention or follow ups have occured. Still a very noble feat.
Last edited by dawman on Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tau
Posts: 787
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Re: MIDI Source & Destination Pairs

Post by Tau » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:21 pm

Re: USB MIDI interfaces, there were a lot of problems in Cubase SX with MIDI timing some time back. I got tired of waiting for their solution (which eventually did come), and I got myself an old MOTU MIDI Timepiece - Parallel port. Everybody said it was impossible to configure, and completely unstable, but it wasn't at all - works pretty well with XP apps (Reaper, Cubase, etc, can send to Scope as Seq MIDI sources), and it can also serve as a MIDI router / filter etc. It's programmable from the front panel, and has presets, so you can have multiple configurations available at a button switch, or a program change. You can route any of the 8 inputs to any of the 8 outputs internally (great for using multiple controllers, for ex)- and also, at the same time, access those ports in software and route to any application.

At the moment, I'm using the MTP on my Scope-only DAW, that has USB disabled. It's timing seems to be tighter than the USB MIDI interface I have on my main DAW, but since that computer is doing some heavy duty work with audio, which uses higher latency settings (Scope's Ulli is at 6ms) I guess it's understandable for MIDI performance to suffer a bit. But the ability to use it as a patchbay / merger / filter / etc. without the need for a computer connection is really what sets it apart.

Maybe something like this could be of help in your problem? Cost me less than 100 EUR on Ebay... Question is if new mobos still have parallel ports :) though there's also a USB version of the MTP still in production...

Cheers,

T

dawman
Posts: 13244
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: PROJECT WINDOW

Re: MIDI Source & Destination Pairs

Post by dawman » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:08 am

Macs w/ parallel ports for MIDI work great, even though they are long in the tooth.

I do prefer PCI hardware as USB just negates the benefits of GS4's kernel level MIDI.

I have a workaround for now, thanks. But it came from a QWERTY shortcut app., using a one touch approach to enabling / disabling GS4's 8 x MIDI Ports.

Since my QWERTY keys will sit next to the LCD vertically, a one touch solution is acceptable live. As long as all content is loaded one time, and I can access it somehow, that is my goal.

Extra hardware MIDI I/O's will arrive as an upgrade later via XTDM I believe, so when it does arrive, it shall be a welcome bonus. Now I have to have way too many controllers and automation information ganged on less channels. That makes me nervous, as my various controllers has their own channels.

If this is the biggest pain I will experience using XITE-1 live, I consider myself lucky. Hardware and software upgrades simultaneously are usually overwhelming. This was a walk in the park actually. :wink:


Good Scope'n Brotha' Man Tau.

User avatar
Neutron
Posts: 2274
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2001 4:00 pm
Location: Great white north eh
Contact:

Re: MIDI Source & Destination Pairs

Post by Neutron » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:15 am

stardust wrote:the Asus p5q with P45 has no parallel port anymore.
And this will be the case for most.

So PCI 32bit lives lomger than parallel port.
well you can get usb parallel adapter. the worst of both worlds :D

Post Reply