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 Post subject: MIDI Source & Destination Pairs
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:05 am 
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I am concerned about the single MIDI I/O config. on the XITE-1 rack.

I am sure not many guys need tons of MIDI Channels, but by having the old cards allowed multiple MIDI Source & Dest. Modules, which is great for having 16 MIDI channels for each app. / controller.

Would there be a workaround by adding my own external hardware, or DIY from ................http://www.ucapps.de/

I will not be dissuaded in my purchase, but must have 32 Channels simultaneously, or I will be loading different projects for the first time onstage,....I am not looking forward to that.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:14 am 
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Isn't it just a question of logistics?
How about MIDI mergers/splitters?
Would any of the 3rd part MIDI tools help you?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:39 pm 
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use a usb midi interface as well....


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:00 pm 
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The trick is that Scope integrated MIDI interfaces allow MIDI assignement storage within projects files ... which is not so easy with other solutions.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:06 pm 
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On the Hardware I/O dropdown menu you get MIDI Source and MIDI Destination choice.

You'll notice that once you insert a module from the drop down menu, it's name is grayed out. Hence no duplicate entries.

That means 16 MIDI Channels only. Just merge / splitting, etc. doesn't create an additional 16 channels.

This means I will be loading new projects during a performance.

Definately Uncool.

It's a hardware restriction.

Perhaps they can release a daughterboard for extra MIDI I/O's, and AES / EBU's etc.

I also have to consider the MIDI Channels the Bassist and Guitarist will need to control their seperate DynaTube configs.

Maybe I will have to have a seperate Gigastudio DAW. That way I can avoid the hassles I am starting to see.

I really miss just being the keyboard player.

But I have made my bed, and I'll have to sleep in it. :(

:wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:32 pm 
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If your midi controllers are USB-equiped, then do as Gary said...
Use an USB interface and something lightweight to distribute the midi to several 'sequencer midi source'.
I bet you could make a simple default project for Bidule that opens at start up.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:41 pm 
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I am well aware of the MIDI routings available Brotha' Man Borg.

I believe we will only see one Source and one Destination Module in XITE-1.

It appears as though only one set of MIDI Ports.

That means one set of S & D Modules.

Go to the hardware I/O dropdown menu and load just one pair of the S & D modules from one of your cards. It won't load multiple instances, that's why it becomes gray, as it is in use. The only way it would allow this is by having multiple whips from multiple cards.

XITE-1 has a single MIDI I/O, and hence will only have 1 pair.

Just adding a MIDI interface like MOTU or M Audio 8 x 8 MIDISport will not force Scope's software to somehow create more Source and Destination Modules.

I really do wish it was that simple.

This could be an Achilles Heel for the XITE-1, unless they make a daughterboard with additional I/O options. I will be needing a MIDI I/O for sure, and others here besides me would like an AES / EBU or extra ADAT's.

Such power necessitates this.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:51 pm 
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yes, but you can have as many sequencer midi source/dest modules as you want.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:22 pm 
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Jimmy, I probably do not understand your actual problem. Either that or the solution is dead simple.

If you need to connect more hardware, use a hardware midi-merger.
If you just need another midi source module, then just split the signal inside Scope.
It goes the same way on the output side of things - use a Scope midi merger ... or split it hardware style.

or are you running 16+ pieces of MIDI hardware, which then all needs their own paths? :o


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:10 am 
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O.K. Guys,

Here's some pics since I am having difficulty explaining myself.

This is my current set up using a single card ( others are sold ).

Notice it is a Type II ADAT that has 2 sets of hardware MIDI I/O's on the cable whip, and dual ADAT's with an additional daughterboard for the extra ADAT I/O's, as the drop down menu demonstrates.

On a Pulsar Classic or Plus card, there's only a single hardware MIDI I/O configuration, only one MIDI Source and Destination will appear, MIDI A would be the choice.

Since I have a dual MIDI, dual ADAT card pictured above, there are 2 sets of hardware associated with the 2 x piars of Source and Destination Modules.

Look closely at the drop down menu. You san see that once MIDI A Source has been chosen, it's name is displayed still, but has turned gray. This means that it can be used once. This is due to the amount of I/O's associated with the hardware I/O's............it cannot re create another MIDI Source Module like the MIDI Sequencer and Source and Destination Modules do. It is restricted to one module per one hardware input or output. Even if we could re create the extra Source and Destination Modules, there would be no hardware attached to them, as it doesn't exist. These type of Modules are associated w/ the hardware I/O's, hence the need for more MIDI I/O's on a future daughterboard.

The card displayed above has a daughterboard attached to it that allows the dual ADAT's, and dual MIDI hardware connections. I now realise it's value, and can only hope SC addresses this dilemma I have in a future I/O daughterboard for extra hardware connections.

These dual ports are the only way I can use 32 MIDI Channels live. I have so many MIDI controlled mixers and even Sur Audio's PJR device which takes snapshots of the current project, and saves them as a preset, operates on it's own MIDI Channel 1.

This project below allows me 16 MIDI Channels on my top KS88 controller that correspond to Gigastudio 4 and Solaris.

The bottom KS88, since I use dual 88 note controllers, also has it's own 16 MIDI Channels which correspond to Cubase 4 and QWave.

This gives me the ability to have 14 channels of sampled content, like Piano, Strings, etc. 2 channels for synths, and 3 more channels for MIDI controlled mixing, and preset changes. That's 19 MIDI channels used. I can and do use more, and with XITE-1, I will have a Bass, and Guitar using Dynatube w/ their own channels, and I am quite sure I will use the rest of the channels for more synths and samples in XITE-1.

Hopefully this demonstrates my concerns.

With such a powerful platform in a 1U like XITE-1, they surely are aware of the I/O's that are necessary to harness all of it's power.

I could always scrap this group and just go play as a sideman w/ an extremely ridiculous amount of polyphony and synths.

But not having additional I/O's for XITE-1 would be a step backwards IMHO. Especially since the old cards allow this, and even with single port cards like the Plus, or Classic, that can be combined in a 3 x 32 bit PCI DAW for additional ports.

I guess I could build another DAW, but will wait for Ralf to respond before I do that.

I am sure I am one of the few guys who performs live, so my needs do not outweigh the needs of the many chaps with studios that use Scope.

But XITE-1 will be seen on many stages within a couple years, trust me. I see this taking many guys out of the studio to do gigs. It's too portable, and too powerful to remain a secret for long.

I have many contacts in the " Business " still that while not to excited about anything Un-Hardware, this will change their mind. And all of those poor chaps that struggle with their under powered Muse Receptors live are going to wish that they had one. Their whole justification of using the Receptors is it's portability, which IMHO should be secondary. Once they see a 1U with so much power, and with synths that just punish those weak sounding NI, Arturia synths, it will help with their decision to jump ship and get an XITE-1.

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:25 am 
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Here's a temorary fix until further developements are released.

GS4's program changes are used for keyswitched instruments, i.e. instruments various articulations, so the instruments used are all loaded at once.

Cubase 4 hosting GVI's will use no key switched instruments, but can reload samples very fast, so that will be the extent of my loads, not too bad.

DynaTube purchases will have to wait. The Bass and Guitarist were leary of using a PC DAW anyway.

This project should suffice for now.

MIDI Channel 1------------------------------------------Sur Audio PJR
MIDI Channel 2----------------------------------------FP106C Main CC's
MIDI Channel 3------------------------------------------FP106C Inert FX CC's / Wax-S
MIDI Channel 4------------------------------------------KeySW Horns
MIDI Channel 5------------------------------------------KeySW Strings
MIDI Channel 6------------------------------------------Rhodes, Wurlizer, Clavinet switched by CC's controlling Mutes.
MIDI Channel 7------------------------------------------Grand Piano
MIDI Channel 8------------------------------------------KeySW Acoutic Guitar
MIDI Channel 9------------------------------------------KeySW Electric Guitar
MIDI Channel 10----------------------------------------GVI Various Preset samples
MIDI Channel 11---------------------------------------- " -----
MIDI Channel 12---------------------------------------- " -----
MIDI Channel 13---------------------------------------- " -----
MIDI Channel 14----------------------------------------CW B4000 ASB
MIDI Channel 15----------------------------------------SE-1X Analog Synth
MIDI Channel 16----------------------------------------All DSP Synths

All DSP Synths will have to share a single MIDI channel, and CC's could mute their sounds.

A major PITA, but it should suffice fror now.

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:21 am 
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by controlling the GS4 stuff via usb, the single port on the xcite won't be so limiting for your Scope devices....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:13 am 
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1 is sick enough. :wink:

Brotha' Man GaryB,

Would you care to elaborate on the USB idea. At this point I believe I would be willing to try any idea.

Gigastudio can accept 128 MIDI channels on 8 virtual ports this is true. The solution I had before I was seduced by Scope was the Oberheim MC3000 & the ESI Wami-Rack 24. Both had 8 physical hardware MIDI Ports, and the Wami-Rack was an excellent Korean made 1U rack and PCI 32bit soundcard.

That was w/ GSIF 1.0 drivers and Gigastudio 160 vrs. 2.54.

I believe you are describing he USB / MIDI interface on the KS88's into another USB MIDI interface like MOTU's Timepiece?

What would the MIDI A Source module's role play.

Here's a little information on GS4's MIDI implementation.

http://www.tascam.com/i-3622-232-128-0-1CA7126F.pdf

:wink:

I guess we are on the clock? :D

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:48 am 
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i think you can select the KS88 midi in GS. that would allow the keyboards to feed GS directly. in addition, you can route midi through GS into Scope. you can still connect to the XITE midi port in order to go directly to Scope synths. in addition, you could still route to GS or whatever other app you wish. in fact, i think Bidule can use all of these midi devices(Scope and USB from the KS88) simultaneously.

i can see why the extra midi connectors on the XITE box would be better(to keep things simple and because Scope midi is a bit quicker than USB), but in real life, i don't think there's any problem.

nah, this ain't on the clock...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:10 am 
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Yeah it is........................cause now you can read this. :x :lol: :roll: :wink:

http://www.plogue.com/bidule/help/index.html

As my lawyer so eloquently puts it..................................time is money. :D


Bidule hosting certain VSTi's that GS4 is having trouble with is actually killing two birds with one stone. MTron and Chris Hein Horns being a couple.

Right now all VSL / NI VSTi's are working.

I will use Bidule as a workaround.

But this means an XP 32bit O.S. only.

There are so mnay reasons to NOT go w/ 64bit. Money, compatability, etc.

XP Home SP3 is suppose to have addressed the memory limitations of XP negating the need for the 3GB switch.

I'll believe it when I see it.

GS4 doesn't allow the switch anyway, but it seems that it doesn;t need it right now.

I have 6 of the 10 channels I planned on using full of gsp's and stacks, and it only shows 23%.

50% is unstable regardless of what the worthless fuckin' meter says.

I wish ONE developer would be honest with their meters !!!!

Once again old proven technology I already have to the rescue.

Bidule was rock solid live, just like giga, just like Scope. :D




Let Us Proceed then on the assumption of a 32bit XP SP3 config, that won't cost me another dime. :D

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:43 am 
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Just one guess: the new module is called Xite-1 because you "only" have 1 midi trio on it.
Then , the Xite-8 would have a full 8 Midi port interface !!! :D

More seriously: I understand what you mean Jimmy.
An 8-port midi Interface with advanced routing possibility would be a good solution as an expansion for XTDM interface: just place it on top of the wishlist.

CheerZ


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:34 pm 
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I might be whing now since I have to really dig in for a solution, But once I can load my favorite synths and Oscillators w/ high polyphony and have several on standby w/ large mix counts, and channel insert preset lists actually all loaded as in the FP / FB series, this slight trauma will be long forgotten.

I might even take one of the upcoming tour dates and just enjoy being a keyboard sideman again. Sometimes trying to cover the job of monitor man, FOH, strings, horns, guitars, and drums gets out of hand. But it sure keeps me busy as a bee.

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http://soundcloud.com/jimmyvee/sets/sol ... akt-tunes/


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:39 am 
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to use a usb midi device also requires additional software such as a sequencer or midi ox (or any windows or mac midi router). Without this the usb is not available. Midi ox performs very well once you have set up the routing (and saved it for further reference). Like this you can load the 8 sequencer source/dest in the project window in parralel of the hardware Midi Input. I may be wrong but i guess it culminates at 9*16 midi channels (= 144)
This is actually the solution i use (where the external usb midi is from the midi keyboard , which is a CME M Key)

The actual midi ins on my scope are not used, but the two midi outs would be (one to another pc, one to a noah). But I screwed one of the midi outs, so now , as hardware i/o I use only one of scope's midi out, and the midi of a pci soundblaster live value (to noah). Say what you want, but the midi on the SB is rock solid . It requires a pci slot though....

Good luck !


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:11 am 
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Thanks Mehdi 4 The Info,

Not sure what I will do, but need to start getting this ready soon.

I have had problems with USB MIDI. When they get stuck notes I have to use a hardware panic button approach, just to unclog the pipes.

PCI MIDI is THE way for stability, but I have time to experiment.

Thanks Brosky. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:01 am 
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is it just me or does USB midi suck, timing wise.


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