considering a minimax asb

[skylab001]

Hello Everybody!

I'm new around here and have been thinking about picking up a minimax asb. A friend of mine told me to check out this site so I gave it a nice looking at over the weekend.

I have a couple questions as I've been looking at a lot of reviews on the minimax asb and some seem to point out different issues.

A) I use only Macs here in my studio, intel, and PPC, will the ASB editor work for me?

B) System bugs, have they been worked out yet, if not what is still problematic? I am mostly concerned about 2 things I read in an older SOS review, one about stair stepping in the controls

I was surprised to hear stepping on the oscillator frequency and patch volume controls, but most noticeably on the Amount Of Contour knob in the Filter section"

and the other about envelope decay not adjusting on knob turns until current note decays

if you play a note with a long decay/release, and then shorten the time, instead of changing instantly, as on a Minimoogthe note still continues to its original length on the Minimax, the change only becoming apparent when you retrigger the note. All the envelope stages behave in the same way.

C) Does it need a midi to USB interface or does it connect directly to DAW MIDI via its USB connection (I already know no audio is transferred via USB)

D) I've been going back and forth between getting the minimax or the Arturia Minimoog V, I have a lot of hardware and prefer it, but the software is much cheaper. Other than the hardware interface, has anybody used both enough to know if there is really a huge difference? That being said, I like what I hear from the Arturia Minimoog V demo, but do feel it gets pretty thin with the emphasis turned up and of course there is no dedicated control surface.


Any info to the above questions would be much appreciated.

[RP_001]

Hi,

just for my 2 cents;

[/quote]
C) Does it need a midi to USB interface or does it connect directly to DAW MIDI via its USB connection (I already know no audio is transferred via USB)[/quote]

It has both midi and USB. Right now im using it only as a controller because i dont have enough audio inputs on my card to use it. I use it to control my minimax software and other SC synths. You can plug it in the usb port and then becomes visable within you sequencer. I havent tried midi yet, but usb works without a problem, except that the controller "forgets" to remember the "buttons" and "waveform select" knobs once you try to save them in the midi CC assign list. I hope that they will fix it some day. But this only occurs when you use it as a controller. Im pretty sure the usb cable is not included when you buy a new asb.

[/quote]
D) I've been going back and forth between getting the minimax or the Arturia Minimoog V, I have a lot of hardware and prefer it, but the software is much cheaper. Other than the hardware interface, has anybody used both enough to know if there is really a huge difference? That being said, I like what I hear from the Arturia Minimoog V demo, but do feel it gets pretty thin with the emphasis turned up and of course there is no dedicated control surface..[/quote]

Ive been comparing them when i first got my minimax asb and the asb sounds so much better and fatter. Never used Arturia again. Furthermore the asb is a rock solid controller and doesn't feel cheap or light at all. If they would only make it a fully operational midi controller as well. Now i have to assign some of the buttons and rotary knobs everytime because they arent stored in the midi CC assign list. Anyway..... im loving it

I hope someone else can shine a light on the subject also.....

[skylab001]

I thought the CC#s were pre-assigned for all parameters in the firmware? I found conflicting posts on the stair-stepping issue around the net, I guess in firmware 2.0 it was supposed to be resolved, but has it really been? Also any words on the envelope bug?

[garyb]

the stair stepper issue was resolved.

i'm not sure about the need to retrigger to make filter changes, sorry. i don't remember that behavior, but i don't want to lie, either....

the Arturia really can't compete with the Minimax, imho.

i think the card is a better value(you can still assign realtime controllers and then you'd get a B3 and Prophet 5 clone, too), but the ASB is a very nice package, if you prefer that type of product and interface. neither is exactly a "software synth" any more than a triton is. both are really hardware, which is the difference with the Arturia plugin. the Aurturia must share the processor with the rest of the computer. the Minimax has exclusive access to all the processor it wants in realtime. as you say though, the Arturia is cheaper......

[ScofieldKid]

I like the "Klangbox" format as well, just from a studio arrangement.

You might also consider the Moog Little Phatty.

[Le Bone]

The envelope 'problems' are features on all of the ASB's (I have the PRO12 and Prodyssey). There are a limited number of controllers that work in realtime (filter, res are two of the ones). The others need you to trigger another note.

Other than that they are good (the PRO12 is excellent - the Prodyssey has big flaws, I ahve never used the minimax).

[skylab001]

I have considered a little phatty but there is something I prefer in the 3 osc minimoog sound. I have a few other 2 osc analog synths that can get similar sounds to the little phatty. I'm also not really considering the Klangbox minimax just because If I buy hardware i really want it to have an interface, otherwise it just seems more like a soft synth and I'd prefer something that incorporates directly into Logic in that situtation.

The envelope bug/feature is a bit of a bummer. I'm not sure how that would work when using my sequentix P3. I like to be able to adjust all sorts of parameters throughout my sequences and really animate them. So it leaves me wondering how well the minimax would perform, especially if only a couple of the features are actually 'realtime controllable'. That was one of the the things that seemed great is that it looked as if everything could be tweaked in realtime. So this is not the case? It seems a lot to pay for a handicapped synth. I almost feel like it may be worth the tradeoff of 90% sound authenticity and 99% functionality of the minimoog V, to the better sound and less functionality of the minimax. Or do these limitations not really hinder the use of the minimax as much as I might think?

[ScofieldKid]

The Minimax ASB is not bad. And yes, absolutely, you can do most of your changes in real-time. It works fine for all that, and sounds quite good. Some
things are a little harder to get to unless you use the GUI helper.

But I would say, yeah, of all the ASB's, if you don't have any other Creamware,
then the PRO-12 is the better one to get. It's a bit of a religion, but I just happen
to use the prophet type stuff a lot more often in my setups. So that's just my
own preference.

And having mentioned that, I would have to mention the Dave Smith synths,
the Mono Evolver Keyboard and the Prophet 08. It's hard to beat a dedicated
piece of hardware. I have a Mono Evolver and it is a great synth.

John Bowen's upcoming Solaris synth is actually a smart buy at this point
as well, as it will give you a huge landscape of sound possibilities, including
a bunch of those listed above, all in a neat package.

Again... hard to recommend unless you can actually try them out yourself
or listen to them yourself.

[astroman]

...The envelope bug/feature is a bit of a bummer. ...
So it leaves me wondering how well the minimax would perform, especially if only a couple of the features are actually 'realtime controllable'. That was one of the the things that seemed great is that it looked as if everything could be tweaked in realtime. So this is not the case? It seems a lot to pay for a handicapped synth. ...

it's not a bug at all, it's just how these things are implemented in that special case - afaik there is not one single synth device on SFP that does it differently.
I think the very same topic was discussed a couple of years ago.
You're absolutely correct in your finding - if you don't like it you'll probably have to leave it...
but... it took at least 6 to 8 years (if you include Miniscope) before someone even mentioned the feature.
Since Minimax and it's Noah implementation there have been literally hundreds of reviews - all ending with the bottomline ...as close as you can get to the real thing..., some even made by well regarded synth experts - and noone considered this a showstopper. Most didn't even mention it.
And no SFP live synth player ever complained about limited creativity because he or she couldn't kill the envelope at that point you mention.

It's up to your choice of course - but you might restrict yourself severly by overestimating a tiny part of the picture.
I recently had some good laughs about keyboard players from south-east Europe: the typical setup seems to be a $$ Korg Triton for pads and accompaignment, but they play solo or melody lines almost exclusively on a small Casio mini-keyboard mounted on top of the expensive workstation.
A 4 voice, non touch sensitive piece of plastic - but it was truely amazing how much emotion they squeezed out of that toy

cheers, Tom

[Le Bone]

As mentioned some ASB controls work in realtime on the sound. Some like the ADSR controls only work when a new sound is triggered which thenpicks up the new setting.

When using a sequencer that would rarely be a problem. You just cannot alter the sustain for a filter or amp and expect it to alter a single drone. It is a slight problem but should not turn you away from the ASBs. They are very good.

I tried to use a klangbox (Prodyssey) but found it a nightmare without the control surface.

You have to think about how many times you want to change settings on a drone and how often you want to alter/animate a sequence. As the settings affect the next note a sequence is fine and you should not overlook a great piece of kit. You could even use the so called bug as a feature and alter so the next drone has different sustain etc.

All the controls have cc numbers and so can be stored as part of a sequence. It really is great equipment. The mp3 sequences do not do full justice to these machines.

[skylab001]

I guess the envelope bug would not be that big of a deal, it just scared me after reading about it. It really sucks that these are not readily available in the US so I could actually try one before I bought it. Can anyone comment on how well the software works on a Mac or if it works at all on an Mac intel machine?

Oh yeah....anyone in the US interested in selling one?

[Septic]

I guess the envelope bug would not be that big of a deal, it just scared me after reading about it.

Well actually it is a problem, I got all 3 of em (well sold the proddy, my PEK does the trick now for me for the Arp style sounds)

But when playing polyphonic or even monophonic (fast playing) with a long attack (for instance strings en filtersweeps) de attack stage gets cut off and starts directly at the decay stage. It occurs not always and is kinda random. That is really annoying. The Prodyssey is somehow less buggy regarding the env retrigger (yes it is in retrig modus ofc) Pro12 seems to have the most glitches with the Env attack retriggering. The Minimax lies in between those two.

[slammah2012]

the stair stepper issue was resolved.

i'm not sure about the need to retrigger to make filter changes, sorry. i don't remember that behavior, but i don't want to lie, either....

the Arturia really can't compete with the Minimax, imho.

i think the card is a better value(you can still assign realtime controllers and then you'd get a B3 and Prophet 5 clone, too), but the ASB is a very nice package, if you prefer that type of product and interface. neither is exactly a "software synth" any more than a triton is. both are really hardware, which is the difference with the Arturia plugin. the Aurturia must share the processor with the rest of the computer. the Minimax has exclusive access to all the processor it wants in realtime. as you say though, the Arturia is cheaper......

I found this interesting in the 4th Quarter of 08.......
Use any of your VST or VSTIs without a computer running......live
You load all your VSTs on to it through the USB ports....
Works with Mac or PC..... You set up mixes and programs across all of your vst plugins......8 analog ins and outs XLR.....
No special code like on the Muse Receptor......your existing licences are accepted.....2 extra usb connections for Dongles or controllers......

http://www.smproaudio.com/index.php?opt ... view&id=76

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[johnbowen]

Yet another VST player....yawn.

The V-Rack will cost a little bit more than Muse Receptor (I think they said $1899 at Messe), and all of these types of products are fine if you like the output of VSTi code....and don't care about having specific real-time controls. That's one of the reasons for the ASB products - control surfaces that can be used intuitively (and sound good!).

-john b.

[skylab001]

yes I will admit as cool as it looks, I'm not really interested in a VST player, thats what I have Logic for. I am interested in the Minimax because I really want a minimoog(but want midi and to not have to worry about analog upkeep) and the interface is about as close as you can get to a minimoog---and it seems like the sound is too. I've found it is really more beneficial for me to have a few great units that I know my way around really well, than a bunch of plugins.

[slammah2012]

yes I will admit as cool as it looks, I'm not really interested in a VST player, thats what I have Logic for. I am interested in the Minimax because I really want a minimoog(but want midi and to not have to worry about analog upkeep) and the interface is about as close as you can get to a minimoog---and it seems like the sound is too. I've found it is really more beneficial for me to have a few great units that I know my way around really well, than a bunch of plugins.

I am interested in it for Live Reasons....

primarily the CS80V and AAS String studio.....
the Multiple outputs and inputs also allow for use as a standalone giving 8 channels of SSL strip using Duende or the SSL4000 buy Waves...much more diverse than the Muse receptor.which never reveals its Polyphony on any info sites.....My creameware sliders can integrate giving oodles of quick control like I am used to on my CS80...

[alfonso]

...The envelope bug/feature is a bit of a bummer. ...
So it leaves me wondering how well the minimax would perform, especially if only a couple of the features are actually 'realtime controllable'. That was one of the the things that seemed great is that it looked as if everything could be tweaked in realtime. So this is not the case? It seems a lot to pay for a handicapped synth. ...

it's not a bug at all, it's just how these things are implemented in that special case - afaik there is not one single synth device on SFP that does it differently.....

Except for FleXor Envelopes. They do work differently.

[Shayne White]

I haven't used any of the ASB boxes, but I have both the MiniMax plugin for Scope and the MiniMoog V from Arturia. MiniMax is far superior! You've been hearing a lot about MiniMax bugs, but Arturia's version has its own problems:

-There's no interpolation for the filter control (or any of the controls for that matter), so either on-screen movement or MIDI control sounds horribly steppy. Don't think you can do any smooth filter sweeps. In contrast, MiniMax's filter is completely smooth and sweet.

-The envelopes aren't built to handle polyphony properly -- on each new note the envelope starts at the current level of the envelope of the previous note played, so it doesn't really "retrigger."

-There's no velocity control.

-When you turn up the resonance, all the bass cuts out and it sounds really thin. Also the resonance doesn't really sound like saturated analog rez -- just a pure sine wave. MiniMax' rez is much better and more vintage.

-The tuning knobs don't work at all like the MiniMoog -- it has a left-click/right-click coarse/fine system. Really annoying and makes it impossible to emulate old MiniMoog patches.

Basically, I found Arturia's version unusable. MiniMax really sounds like an analog synthesizer, whereas MiniMoog V sounds like a bad emulation. If you're worried about a few minor bugs with MiniMax, you can also check out G-Media's MiniMonsta VST -- still not as good as MiniMax, but better than Arturia.

Just my own 2c.

Shayne

[hifiboom]

minimax is maximoog

[skylab001]

Shayne thanks for the comparison. I did notice some of those things on the Arturia minimoog V, but I'm curious were you talking about the Arturia having an envelope issue of sorts too

-The envelopes aren't built to handle polyphony properly -- on each new note the envelope starts at the current level of the envelope of the previous note played, so it doesn't really "retrigger."

or was that the Minimax you were referring to?