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 Post subject: Minimax ASB, stuck notes.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:59 pm 
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My Minimax works fine played live from a keyboard, but I've had problems with stuck notes when running it off of a sequencer. Namely, the stuck notes occur when two instances of the same note overlap (triggered at the same time or just with overlapping gate times). I made a little diagram using the Korg EA-1 (if you're not familiar with it, it's a basic hardware step sequencer with two mono tracks; the two tracks are being transmitted on 2 different MIDI channels, btw) as an example.

STEPS:_1--------2--------3--------4--------5--------6--------7--------8
TRK. 1:_C1
GATE:__(3)------------------------->
TRK. 2:____________C1___E2___G2
GATE:_____________(1)---->(1)---->(1)---->

So, if that C1 in Track 1 is still sounding when the C1 in Track 2 starts, bang, stuck note. Although if I put all of the notes in the same Track (even with overlapping gate times), it works fine, no stuck notes. I'm running the Minimax in Poly mode, and sequences as simple as the above example (i.e. nowhere near the 12-note max) are enough to cause a stuck note. Similar things happen when I use my Yamaha AN1X's sequencer, so I know it's not the EA-1 that's screwy.

Any other Minimax users had problems like this? Do I have a defective one, or is this just a limitation of the machine?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:05 pm 
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What software version are you running? Is it the latest? If you've never updated email Ralf at rb(at)soniccore.com - replace with @ - with your serial number. Don't know if this will solve the problem but it's a good place to start.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:49 pm 
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Yes, I did install the latest software and firmware. My "Overload" LED does light, which is supposed to be the sign that everything is properly up to date.

I did e-mail Soniccore support with the same question I posted here. Maybe they'll have something for me. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:29 am 
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This is a commoon problem for the ASBs, the Pro12 has the most hanging notes.

It also occurs when running a monophonic ASB line from my Sequentix P3 sequencer when I play an note on the keyboard that is already beingseqqed at the same moment.

When putting it into mono voice mode, the problem vanishes aswell.

I mostly regret this bug on the Pro12, because I use this almost only in poly modus, I can eihter seq a track or play it live, not the 2 together...

Damn shame, becuase the Pro12 is a very good synth (the Best imo of the 3 ASBs), removing this bug would make my phun with it increase with at least 123,56% :)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:14 am 
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This is a pretty big limitation. Especially for products that cost $800-$1000. I would think this would be one of the first things Soniccore would need to address if they ever hope to get the ASB product line back up and running.

It's kind of pathetic that my Prophet 600 from 1982, first MIDI synth ever(so presumably a fairly primitive MIDI spec), can handle the same stuff that sends my state-of-the-art Minimax into a fit of stuck notes.

I love the sound of my Minimax, and I was thinking about saving up for a Prodyssey, but there's no way I'd spend $900+ on one if it's likely to have the same problems.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:48 am 
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Yes your totally right, sonicore need to fix this bug asap...

The Prodyssey has the least note hanging of the 3 ASBs BTW..

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:29 pm 
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i have a minimax and a prodyssey. the only time i have a problem with stuck note is when i try to change a patch in mid note. I sequence both regularly. I would investigate that you are not sending some extra data. connect only the minimax to your sequencer, if it still hangs notes, send a couple of notes to the midi monitor and see if there is more than note data being sent. (if you can do it without it locking up) if not, can you step edit the sequence and delete all data except for the note data? maybe try creating a new sequence of two or three notes of the sequence you are trying to use to make it easier to diagnose the problem. good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Minimax ASB, stuck notes.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:27 pm 
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pricklyrobot wrote:
My Minimax works fine played live from a keyboard, but I've had problems with stuck notes when running it off of a sequencer. Namely, the stuck notes occur when two instances of the same note overlap (triggered at the same time or just with overlapping gate times). I made a little diagram using the Korg EA-1 (if you're not familiar with it, it's a basic hardware step sequencer with two mono tracks; the two tracks are being transmitted on 2 different MIDI channels, btw) as an example.

STEPS:_1--------2--------3--------4--------5--------6--------7--------8
TRK. 1:_C1
GATE:__(3)------------------------->
TRK. 2:____________C1___E2___G2
GATE:_____________(1)---->(1)---->(1)---->

So, if that C1 in Track 1 is still sounding when the C1 in Track 2 starts, bang, stuck note. Although if I put all of the notes in the same Track (even with overlapping gate times), it works fine, no stuck notes. I'm running the Minimax in Poly mode, and sequences as simple as the above example (i.e. nowhere near the 12-note max) are enough to cause a stuck note. Similar things happen when I use my Yamaha AN1X's sequencer, so I know it's not the EA-1 that's screwy.

Any other Minimax users had problems like this? Do I have a defective one, or is this just a limitation of the machine?


Thats a sequencer / procedure problem....
Your Minimax is not receiving the note off message from your earliest track because you have trggered a new note on.....How have you assigned your Midi channels to your tracks???
There should be a clue in the fact when you combine the instrument to 1 track , it works right.... What mode is your minimax in ....omni??? or is it assigned to 1 channel???How are your tracks assigned....

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:33 pm 
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pricklyrobot wrote:
This is a pretty big limitation. Especially for products that cost $800-$1000. I would think this would be one of the first things Soniccore would need to address if they ever hope to get the ASB product line back up and running.

It's kind of pathetic that my Prophet 600 from 1982, first MIDI synth ever(so presumably a fairly primitive MIDI spec), can handle the same stuff that sends my state-of-the-art Minimax into a fit of stuck notes.

I love the sound of my Minimax, and I was thinking about saving up for a Prodyssey, but there's no way I'd spend $900+ on one if it's likely to have the same problems.


Your prophet 600 would have been in Omni mode...and you are right .... you wouldnt get the stuck notes because the last note off event would be sent "OMNI" across all Midi channels.....thus no notes would stick......
Set your midi channels to match

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:42 pm 
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fx1mark wrote:
i have a minimax and a prodyssey. the only time i have a problem with stuck note is when i try to change a patch in mid note. I sequence both regularly. I would investigate that you are not sending some extra data. connect only the minimax to your sequencer, if it still hangs notes, send a couple of notes to the midi monitor and see if there is more than note data being sent. (if you can do it without it locking up) if not, can you step edit the sequence and delete all data except for the note data? maybe try creating a new sequence of two or three notes of the sequence you are trying to use to make it easier to diagnose the problem. good luck.


You will only get a stuck note while changing patches mid note if your new patch is on a different midi channelfor that held note.....
What is happening is you play a note on patch 2 (midi channel 4) and change your patch to one in midi channel 3 lets say....when you lift your finger you send a note off message on channel 3 that doesnt change the position of the hanging note on channel 4.... you then must turn your new patch to midi 4 and replay the hanging note to shut it off.......
If the ASB is not multi timbral..... I suggest setting all patches to the same midi channel so you can patch change during note on and release in the new patch.....
This also happens live if you are playing a Multi assigned controller with split points on separate channels.... if the next multi preset moves your held note out of the split range for the original note on events midi channel.....guess what happens??? HANGGGGGGG

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 12:49 pm 
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The Minimax still gets stuck notes in Omni mode. It seems to just not like getting a lot of MIDI info at once.

I've tried running it from my Yamaha AN1X; it does fine if I'm just playing the keyboard live (you can hold down as many keys as you like and it doesn't seem to trip up the Minimax), it does fine playing from the AN1X's onboard sequencer (just a simple 16-step sequencer). But then you start combining the two --I usually have the left half of the keyboard controlling the sequencer (hitting different keys to change the root note of the sequence), and the right half of the keyboard normal to play notes over top of the sequence-- and it's stuck note city. Usually it works okay for a minute or two, then I'll notice a note hanging in the background. So it's hard for me to pinpoint the exact culprit in this scenario. I've tried setting the AN1X to send regular note info on one channel and sequencer info on another (with the Minimax receiving in Omni); I've tried setting them to send on the same channel and set the Minimax to receive on that specific channel. And I've tried various permutations of these two with no success.

I guess I either need to figure out how to keep my keyboards/sequencers from transmitting anything other than note on/off data (i.e. aftertouch, velocity, whatever, etc.) that may be confusing the Minimax. This would require me learning more about MIDI than I really want to know (none of my other rack/module gear has ever required anything more complex than hooking it up and setting the receive channel), or maybe getting one of those MIDI filters that allows you to cut out everything aside from note data. Either way I'm spending time or money, and I have a surpluss of neither right now. Annoying.

If there are any Minimax people out there who also have AN1X's or EA-1's and have some specific tips on dealing with these issues, I'd love to hear from you. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:07 pm 
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slammah2012 thanks for the reply, I am not using multiple midi channels. if i am auditioning sounds, playing with one hand and changing patches with the other, and i change a patch while i am holding a note it will hang.

pricklyrobot what you are doing, playing on top of a sequencer sounds like it would hang notes on the minimax. can you record the sequence part and then play along with it? that would solve the problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:34 am 
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fx1mark wrote:
slammah2012 thanks for the reply, I am not using multiple midi channels. if i am auditioning sounds, playing with one hand and changing patches with the other, and i change a patch while i am holding a note it will hang.

pricklyrobot what you are doing, playing on top of a sequencer sounds like it would hang notes on the minimax. can you record the sequence part and then play along with it? that would solve the problem.



Better still is to fix the bug by Sonicore :)

Only my ASBS have hanging notes not the rest of my gear.....I got the Pro12, Minimax,Prodyssey and a Novation SuperbassStation connected to my Sequentix P3, only the ASBs would hang, not the SBS, so it is just a creamware bug,no more no less...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:47 am 
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fx1mark wrote:
pricklyrobot what you are doing, playing on top of a sequencer sounds like it would hang notes on the minimax. can you record the sequence part and then play along with it? that would solve the problem.


Well, yes certainly multi-tracking would be a workaround if I needed the Minimax doing sequence plus notes on a recording project. The thing is I'm not always recording, sometimes I'm just playing and I don't want to have to fire up ProTools just to have a background sequence to play along to (not to mention that tweaking the sequence on the fly is a non-option in this scenario). And the bigger point is I shouldn't have to, the Minimax claims to be 12-note poly with full MIDI capabilities, so it ought to be able to handle this kind of thing.

None of my other gear (Yamaha TX81Z, Yamaha A3000, Roland JV1080, and as previously mentioned, even my old 6- voice SCI Prophet 600) has any problems when I send them the exact same MIDI.

I know not everyone is having this problem with their ASB's, but enough people seem to be complaining about it that the answer can't just be that we're all stupid about MIDI.

I'm with Septic on this one, Soniccore (if they are in fact taking charge of the ASB product line) need to fix this.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:38 pm 
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i too have quite a few synths, none with the glitches the asb boxes have. I will be very surprised to see any updates to any existing asb boxes. no money to be made from it. the boxes are already sold. I wish they would prove me wrong.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:37 pm 
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fx1mark wrote:
i too have quite a few synths, none with the glitches the asb boxes have. I will be very surprised to see any updates to any existing asb boxes. no money to be made from it. the boxes are already sold. I wish they would prove me wrong.


Hell, I'd be willing to pay a few bucks for a firmware upgrade that fixes this. Or if Creamware/Soniccore really aren't going to continue producing and supporting the ASB, they should release the code for the software running on these things so that some benevolent hacker could fix this for us (assuming there's no hardware element to the problem).

I'd think, if Creamware or its remains is going to continue as a company in some form that they'd want to address problems with past products (even if they are discontinuing them) just for PR reasons.

I know if Creamware/Soniccore came out with some awesome-sounding new product right now and I had the money for it, I'd think twice about buying based on my experience with the ASB.

And certainly if any of my friends asked about Creamware products I couldn't honestly give a totally positive recommendation at this point.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:08 pm 
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I got both my boxes cheap, and they sound good, listen to some of the stuff bluescreen has gotten out of it. I use the minimax for mono leads and and basses myself and get a lot of use out of it. it certainly is not perfect. but for me acceptable as is. as i said, i wish they would fix some problems, but i really don't expect it to happen.

http://home.earthlink.net/~fx1mark/


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:50 pm 
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fx1mark wrote:
i too have quite a few synths, none with the glitches the asb boxes have. I will be very surprised to see any updates to any existing asb boxes. no money to be made from it. the boxes are already sold. I wish they would prove me wrong.


I am currently beta testing a "firmware" upgrade Sonicore sent me for a different ASB unit...
It works as it should, previous bugs were fixed.....I have had it for 2 months now and still working.....
I would mention it to them, as I got recent results...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:41 pm 
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I am currently beta testing a "firmware" upgrade Sonicore sent me for a different ASB unit...
It works as it should, previous bugs were fixed.....I have had it for 2 months now and still working.....
I would mention it to them, as I got recent results...[/quote]

That's great! I assume you are referring to your complaint about the effects input on the B4000? which would be a fairly simple software fix. the polyphony problems with the other asb boxes are, i assume, not a simple fix. they added a second sharc chip early on to up the polyphony from 6 notes to 12 and i just don't think they could ever get it to work right.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:23 pm 
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fx1mark wrote:
I am currently beta testing a "firmware" upgrade Sonicore sent me for a different ASB unit...
It works as it should, previous bugs were fixed.....I have had it for 2 months now and still working.....
I would mention it to them, as I got recent results...


That's great! I assume you are referring to your complaint about the effects input on the B4000? which would be a fairly simple software fix. the polyphony problems with the other asb boxes are, i assume, not a simple fix. they added a second sharc chip early on to up the polyphony from 6 notes to 12 and i just don't think they could ever get it to work right.[/quote]

Yes ...That is Corrected on my B4000.....I have reported it as suscessfull so far as I have worked with it without hitches....I also had suggestions with regards to the software which has controls for leslie tone which don't affect anything in my opinion....

I have just ordered a Prodyssey through a music store here.... can't wait....... I will speak with Juergen if I find any problems on it.....It sounds great from examples I have heard....

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thing you are after..........


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