ASB - Audio via USB yet ?

Discuss the Creamware ASB and Klangbox hardware boxes

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Wintersun
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ASB - Audio via USB yet ?

Post by Wintersun »

I cant find any info in this anywhere, but from the reviews this has not been implemented, i have a 100% digital studio so the Pro-12 would be useless to me without internally routed audio through the usb port.
Can anyone shed any light on this ?

Many Thanks
gregae
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Re: ASB - Audio via USB yet ?

Post by gregae »

Wintersun wrote:I cant find any info in this anywhere, but from the reviews this has not been implemented, i have a 100% digital studio so the Pro-12 would be useless to me without internally routed audio through the usb port.
Can anyone shed any light on this ?

Many Thanks
AFAIK, none of the ASB's route audio thru the USB port. The USB port seems to be used exclusively as a data port for MIDI commands.
Wintersun
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Post by Wintersun »

wow, thats a seriously missed opportunity.
And a shame because that counts me out as a potential customer , and i bet many more out there :(

Funnily enough, Novation X-Station has a usb port but thankfully they use it for midi and audio.
slammah2012
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Post by slammah2012 »

Wintersun wrote:wow, thats a seriously missed opportunity.
And a shame because that counts me out as a potential customer , and i bet many more out there :(

Funnily enough, Novation X-Station has a usb port but thankfully they use it for midi and audio.
I Actually bought the ASB stuff so I could have independence from the computer....
There is tons of software that the Cremeware knobs
can be routed to.... however I could see an extra use if you were wanting
to use the Audio inputs to shuffle audio up into your PC....

There are many companies out there that do the same.... The Korg Radias
for example has the entire synth control surface available in
a software editor, but can only use its usb for midi and editor control...

The future Origin from Arturia will operate as a VST with audio
back and forth thru the usb...... and it also features 2 inputs and 10 outputs..
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Wintersun
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Post by Wintersun »

Well, i think its a seriously crumby omission from what i thought would be standard. I bet it wouldnt be hard to make a vsti/AU front end for it either.
Why spend thousands of euros on developing such a fantastic peice of hardware and fall at the last fence ?
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

you might want to ask Access why that relatively simple task (as you call it) took them almost a year longer than estimated ... ;)
(my memory may not be very precise, tho - at least it was a significant amount of time)

the largest part of the ASB software already existed in SFP modules and since all knobs are automated in a similiar way the hardware interface (probably) wasn't such a big deal.

I guess the ASBs have USB 1 ports, not the most amazing base for audio processing - well, to be honest a fu***ing base for any processing :P

cheers, Tom
Wintersun
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Post by Wintersun »

Remind me, where did i type (simple task) ?
Wintersun
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Post by Wintersun »

However, usb 1 or not i dont see why ASB cant carry 2 channels of audio to the host, its madness imo.
Bluescreen
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Post by Bluescreen »

Most musicians still use mixing desks, have audio interfaces and prefer 1/4" jacks/cables for audio out.
Why implement something that costs money when only a few people need it ?
hubird

Post by hubird »

the level of disappointment is highly depending on the level of expectations...
If the ASBs had that routing function those (cheep) machines probably would have been more expensive, maybe even significantly, if Astro is right.
Or Creamware would have had to give up the struggle for survival and you wouldn't have the possibility at all to get yourself a fantastic sounding machine.
In the end, the ASB just doesn't fit your studio setup...at the moment :-)
(got to leave my computer whyle making this post, Bluescreen mentions the same kind of aspects as I see now).

The Elektron machines, highly valuated in the electronic music scene, also don't have the function you seem to need so urgently, but it's right that Elektron about a year ago released the TM-1 midi-to-usb converter, to cover this point.

Neighterless, those machines are much more expensive, at least two times more.

Anyway, a cheap RME In/Out card f.e. from ebay should solve all your problems, it's the sound and the hands-on quality of the ASB's you should focus on :-)
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

Wintersun wrote:Remind me, where did i type (simple task) ?
I didn't write 'simple task' ;)
'relatively simple' is my equivalent to ...it wouldnt be hard to make ... :D
admittedly I could have been more precise, so here it goes (but just my guess)
Imho you cannot do a reliable low latency implementation based on standard USB1 modules.

The horrible performance of that sh*t of a protocol would require custom programming at both ends of the communication.
Way beyond the expertise and man power of CWA those days - and not even remotely reasonable in economic context of such a niche product.
CWA also didn't design the hardware from the ground up, but used the prototype designs by Analog Devices (with USB-1) - as Access used a prototyping board by Motorola for their first Virus.

I've had the pleasure to transfer some 500 Mbytes via USB stick just a few hours ago - the source machine had USB-1 and it took about 15 minutes to copy to the stick - the destination with USB-2 received the copy in less than 2 minutes.
Btw It's the fastest type of flash memory available, so the read/write difference isn't that significant.

cheers, Tom
fx1mark
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Post by fx1mark »

I agree, creamware didn't have time to get all the bugs out before they went under. if they tried to do add too much none of us would now own asb's at all.
hubird

Post by hubird »

even more, an original Minimoog would be an instant reason to get yourself an analog (to digital) input somehow, why not the same for a Minimax?
It only creates chances...
Wintersun
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Post by Wintersun »

I think i'm seeing the picture clearly thanks to astroman.
It seems to me it could be more to do with the dsps creamware chose.
Novation X-station i think is usb 1 and that supports a bevvy of different routings,
and the sound quality and latency is really good, but i assume that has a different dsp chip.

Still irks me somehwhat though that ASB lacks this in 2007.
I have a macpro, so i dont know how i stand in regards to using an RME to input sound, just wondering how much noise i'm going to pull in via that A/D conversion too.
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astroman
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Post by astroman »

well, I never heard an X-Station live, but afaik it's Motorola based - which is (not only) imho inferior audio processing than Analog Device's Sharc DSPs typically provide.
To be precise it's of course not the in the chips, but the available base software that makes the difference.

Of course there's excellent stuff for the Motorola DSP as well, but in the synth domain it's rather humble when it comes to emulate existing gear.
On it's own synthetic sound flavour it's quite interesting - more on the cutting and aggressive side of tone.

The ASBs are nothing but SFP stripped down and frozen in hardware.
Under no other circumstances a company of CWA's size (and limited budget that time) would have been able to release 4 such boxes within one year.
It's a question of software architecture and not of DSP performance.
Btw you can fake an arbitrary Motorola synth from within SFP, but I've yet to listen to a Motorola based machine that's capable of the opposite ;)

cheers, Tom
[L8er]
refreshed my memory about the Novation keyboard...
first of all it's not a VST either ;)
then it's a controller in the first place - you really will not want to compare THAT synth with any ASB ...
it will have a significant buffer latency which it compensates by a direct monitor section pre-DAW.
just 4 audio channels to DAW may become a bit tight for such a multi-purpose device, but then it doesn't cost an arm and a leg... :D
Wintersun
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Post by Wintersun »

The novation x-station has the code of the v-station in there which is a vst aswell, x-station is basically the same code of the v-station vst plugin.
You can use both in conjunction with each other, either using the vsti as a synth in its own right or just the plugins GUI, giving all manner of possibilities.

But i think i would have to agree with what your saying about them being totally different animals, i can hear just from the demos that the sound quality is far better on the ASB.
I'm going to go for it, if i dont like it i will sell it on, somehow i think i will love it.
Ive had a prophet 5 rev 3.1 in the past and that was great, but very temperamental.

I still live in hope that creamware would make internally routeable audio available one day, but i wont hold my breath.
Le Bone
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Post by Le Bone »

Wintersun, You will not be disappointed. I bought one many moons ago and love it to bits. If I compare to my Novation kstation and ks-rack (although in themselves great instruments) it kicks their lilly white asses for sheer analogue emotion and authenticity.

The PRO-12 is fantastic and I still find it hard to believe it is an emulation. It can sound very instable (but not out of control) and not at all digital.

The extra polymod features and inbuilt effects not on the original take it to another level.

Those creamware guys did a stonking job on this one and quickly fixed any initial quirks via an os update (main ones being poly and glide times).
Shayne White
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Post by Shayne White »

Don't worry...if the sound of the Pro-12 goes to analog before coming into your computer, you'll get "that warm analog" sound. :lol:

Shayne
Melodious Synth Radio
http://www.melodious-synth.com

Melodious synth music by Binary Sea
http://www.binary-sea.com
Henrik
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Post by Henrik »

I was very disapointed about the USB implementation of ASB.

First of all then I just can't get MIDI over USB working at all with my Prodyssey. There IS some standard USB stuff registered by windows but I cant at all use that as MIDI interface. Not even Creamwares own editor sw :-( Have to use MIDI for that and then I cannot connect my MIDI keyboard to the ASB which is really stupid! Yeah I have to swap the cables to be able to play the ASB after editing a sound.

Secondly I expected that since Noah had audio over USB then ASB's would too. Of course I can understand that the new DSP's might not be powerfull enough to handle full USB 1 capacity at the same time as emulating Prodyssey but that is just an underdimensioned system then.

Third issue is that Creamware HW seems to have grounding issues!!!
My Noah burned off the MIDI out of my Triton Extreme.
Prodyssey generates a loud 50Hz if connected to my PC, unless I touch it with my hands, then I get electricuted and dies. (It is connected to the same power outlet as my PC, my Triton Extreme and amplifier.
Have tried to ground the chassis but it just generates more 50Hz noise.
slammah2012
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Post by slammah2012 »

what else is hooked up to your Computer???
The ASB units cant supply a ground through the Adapter.....
If your Computer has Noise when the ASB is plugged in, I would suspect any "other" sources of secondary grounds attached to your computer....or,
the power Adapter is defective....Do you happen to have a TV card hooked up to Cable??? or a second Midi keyboard on a different ground or ungrounded(that should have a ground)

Ground noise is essentially the voltage difference between 2 different grounds.... if one device cant find a good ground via its plug, it will seek a better ground through the audio lines.... the Neutral voltage(ground difference) is then amplified at that point....If you are using unbalanced cables with a poor shield, you may be amplifying RF....
Time has No Master.
*NOW* is the Password.
Just *ASK* and *INVITE* every-
thing you are after..........
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