What ASB Would you like to see next?

Discuss the Creamware ASB and Klangbox hardware boxes

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dawman
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Post by dawman » Tue May 02, 2006 1:41 pm

O'Dio,O'Dio,
How about the Steve Allen Melodica, or a Jew's Harp ASB, no better yet a Slide Whistle ASB. Yeah that's the ticket.


These are made with so much ease,
Seems just like a waste of time,
I'm adrift in the world of ASB's,
Please make an Oberheim!!!


Please Stay Seated,

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next to nothing
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Post by next to nothing » Tue May 02, 2006 2:48 pm

nice poem, i concur (or however it is spelled)!

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Post by johnbowen » Tue May 02, 2006 3:46 pm

On 2006-04-30 14:04, FRA59-HELP wrote:
Why real dream would be a Modular III with Flexor inside as a blackbox (just as what provide the G2 engine from Clavia).

Just think about it: a modular ASB !!!
The problem here is same as with my Solaris and the dynamic DSP aspect - for these ASB type products, the DSP code block is downloaded into the board, and cannot change as needed. A Modular synth approach would require you load into it the customised desired config from your computer, but as you say, this is same as with Nord Modular. From what I can tell, the way the ASB digital code is loaded is not over a standard connector (i.e., it's not done over USB), but done once, and permanently. So, I don't know the viability of this approach given the current ASB configuration.

cheers,
john b.

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Post by Shroomz~> » Wed May 03, 2006 2:08 am

John, surely it could be worked around. I mean would it not be possible to have built in monitor support, a capable onboard host CPU with plenty ram & a plug-in DSP board (Scope Project or Pro) It could probably be done with a mini-itx pcb or something similar like Hartman & Muse did. Only difference is that we're talking about a modular or semi-modular synth box with generic control layout a la G2 basher.

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Post by Nebukadneser » Wed May 03, 2006 2:26 am

Me thinks that a Fender Rhodes / Wurlitzer emulation based on physical modelling technology would be a good ASB device. The sale of the B 2003 ASB, would probably give an indication to its potential in the market.

CW could licence the technology off Applied Acoustics who made the Lounge Lizard VST plug in, which in my opinion sounds very good.

Then, the Rhodes / Wurlie emu of course should be available for NOAH and the Scope platform.

Neb

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nebukadneser on 2006-05-03 03:26 ]</font>

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Post by Clamhead » Wed May 03, 2006 4:16 am

I'd like Creamware to start making the ASB boxes into fully-fledged keyboards; this would make them a lot easier to gig with.

hubird

Post by hubird » Wed May 03, 2006 5:14 am

I'd say the contrary... :smile:

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Post by Shroomz~> » Wed May 03, 2006 6:35 am

Creamware said themselves when describing the B2004, that they couldn't possibly make a drawbar organ without drawbars. :???:

Now this is where it starts getting a little confusing, as what's good for 1 physical attribute such as drawbars is probably good for a more important physical attribute like keys.

I'm thinking a three tier version of one of those system1200 thingies would be emmense if the bottom unit had a keyboard & the midi was cascaded to the other 2.

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Post by SekondThought » Fri May 05, 2006 6:05 am

I totally agree - if you take a look here, you'll see that it would have been easy to make a keyboard version of the Minimax ASB, as there was already a company making a controller for the software Minimax plugin version:

http://www.midisoft.de/shop/index.html? ... ort128.htm

The only switch it doesn't have is the feedback switch from the Mixer section (as far as I can see). It's a shame that Creamware didn't licence it from this company or get them to make the case for them. The blank strip where the hinge is, is where the Match, Value, MIDI, Sound and Effects buttons from the ASB would have lived and the whole thing (with the addition of a headphone socket) would have been so damn cool!

Other people want this too. Dave Stewart reviewing the Pro-12 ASB module in the May 2006 edition of Sound On Sound says "Indeed, if Creamware ever decided to attach a five-octave keyboard to their cute little box, it could become the new real thing in years to come!". Let's hope they look at this for the future. I've e-mailed them with regard to this, but as yet, have not had a reply.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SekondThought on 2006-05-05 07:08 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SekondThought on 2006-05-05 08:50 ]</font>

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Post by Anna Lüse » Fri May 05, 2006 6:44 am

What would be the additional price for a Minimax/Pro-12 Keyboard and how may people would really pay for? If you compare it to the Access product line, there is a difference of € 560 between the desktop and the keyboard version.

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Post by SekondThought » Fri May 05, 2006 7:59 am

Yes, there is €500+ difference on the Access Virus range for the keyboard version, but this is mostly because the Virus Ti keyboard is 5 octaves (which is a lot more metal and a lot more wood than the desktop, a much bigger physical size), and the Polar is made from more expensive materials.

If Creamware added a two octave keyboard, it wouldn't expand the size of the ASB that much (except the depth of the unit) and thus shouldn't add so much to the price. Peronally, I would only have expected the keyboard version to have been about €300 to €350 more at the very most, but I'm no expert at what goes into costing for synthesizer production, so the real answer would have to come from Creamware.
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Post by Anna Lüse » Fri May 05, 2006 9:51 am

Two octave keyboard for the mini and the pro? What I got from customers is that they expect 60 keys in a wooden housing with stable metal front panel, pitch- and mod-wheels ...

I remember my bmw m5 which was 60% more than the standard version. Any fans here? We will have your individual synth. Orders taken by Anna Lüse.

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Post by SekondThought » Fri May 05, 2006 11:52 am

I guess different people want different things. Myself, I hate large keyboards. I like 3 or 4 octaves (5 at the very most), anything more than that and I'm not interested. The most interesting synths in the last 30 years have had less octaves.

Synton Syrinx, Sequential Pro-One, Roland System-100, OSC OSCar, RSF Kobol, Korg 700S (I could go on and on, but I won't), they were all amazing synths which mainly had 2 and a half or 3 octave keyboards. I've been into synths since I was 9, buying them since I was 13 and at almost 34, I have a great deal of experience with them and IMHO, less keys = more interesting synth or to put it another way; many octaves do not a great synth make!

But, as everyone is different, maybe Creamware should make two sizes so that people have a choice. I guess it depends what floats your boat!
SekondThought

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Post by alfonso » Fri May 05, 2006 12:09 pm

My opinion is that there are many people who want different things, small keyboards, medium, large ones.....few things are to be taken in account:
1)CWA is a little company that does something better than anyone else, that's virtual synthesis. It should focus on that and put the money in the "engine".

2)Today are available keyboards an controllers for all the tastes, of all the sizes and prices.

3) For a professional that wants a lot of gear on stage, if any synth had a keyboard it would be a mess. Not everyone is Rick Wakeman.

4)Creamware could never make all the keyboard sizes for a synth, so, considering point 2), the best way to reach the largest amount of users is to avoid the keyboard thing.

5)Using an 88 keys controller on the CWA synths is awesome, and if you want you can split it to use several CWA Synts together.

These considerations make me think that it would be a very bad move for CWA to put money on keyboards too...well I know that for someone it would be cool, but it doesn't make economical sense.

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Post by SekondThought » Fri May 05, 2006 12:29 pm

Dave Smith (of Sequential fame) didn't seem to think so when he made the Poly Evolver keyboard (61 notes) or the new Mono Evolver keyboard (37 notes), and his company is still quite small. I seem to remember that he started out with a desktop module (the original Evolver), then made a rackmount (as that module wasn't rackable, much like the Creamware ASB's aren't), and then moved onto keyboard versions...maybe Creamware are smaller than Dave Smith Instruments, I don't know, so I can't honestly say.

Controller (or master) keyboards...yuck! They're just not the same as having a keyboard attached to the unit that's actually producing the sound, there's not the connection between the synth and the person who's playing it when you're just playing one master keyboard all the time...IT'S JUST SO TOTALLY BORING!!!!

It maybe okay for those people with a "safe" little MIDI rig, master keyboard and sequencer (hardware or software), and think they've made it, but I think it's rather dull to be just playing one keyboard all your life. People in the 70's and early 80's had it better, when they played an ARP with it's own keyboard, a Moog with it's own keyboard, a Sequential with it's own and so on and so on. Each synth was a personality, each synth was different, each was a legend and I think a part of that was because they had their own keyboard and thus required a different playing style on each one to get the best results. I doubt anyone is going to get all misty-eyed about a master keyboard in years to come as they do about classic synths from the 70's and 80's.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but this subject really gets under my skin.
SekondThought

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Post by HUROLURA » Fri May 05, 2006 2:43 pm

For the keyboard discussion, just remember that the first NOAH presented was a keyboard version but I guess the only NOAH unit that get onto maket was the RACK module...

Manufacturing a good keyboard is not that easy, and in that case CWA should get an agreement with a good controller keyboard manufacturer which would prevent them to spend to much time on the keyboard thing.

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Post by astroman » Fri May 05, 2006 6:39 pm

On 2006-05-05 13:29, SekondThought wrote:
...Controller (or master) keyboards...yuck! They're just not the same as having a keyboard attached to the unit that's actually producing the sound, there's not the connection between the synth and the person who's playing it when you're just playing one master keyboard all the time...IT'S JUST SO TOTALLY BORING!!!!...
you've found a way how to CV control digital 'circuits' ? :eek:
...People in the 70's and early 80's had it better, when they played an ARP with it's own keyboard, a Moog with it's own keyboard, a Sequential with it's own and so on and so on. Each synth was a personality, each synth was different, each was a legend and ...
each synth was a fortune... :razz:
that Odyssey in the shop which I couldn't afford as a schoolboy had a price equivalent to 4k Euro today

I clearly see your point, but it's as realistic as promoting MacOS 7 today - and that really was the better MacOS :wink:

cheers, Tom

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Post by astroman » Fri May 05, 2006 6:52 pm

On 2006-05-05 07:05, SekondThought wrote:
I totally agree - if you take a look here, you'll see that it would have been easy to make a keyboard version of the Minimax ASB, as there was already a company making a controller for the software Minimax plugin version:

http://www.midisoft.de/shop/index.html? ... ort128.htm
you may have noticed the 'sold out' labels in the online shop.... :wink:
but you probably have no idea how long it took them to sellout a handful of items, even at reduced prices (unless you're watching the respective German eBay section on a more or less regular base).

The keyboard version existed only as a few handmade prototypes - at least that's what the maker told in the eBay description.

cheers, tom

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Post by music251 » Sat May 06, 2006 1:23 am

Interesting thread.
What I REALLY would love to see is a 4-octave keyboard that looks very good and is very portable (something like a nord lead with some wood maybe?) and the combined dsp code of prodessey, minimax and pro1. That would be the ultimate VA without a single doubt in my mind...
Apart from the sound, it really needs to look great. Playing a solokeyboard/VA should be fun and inspirational, so the design must be very good (unlike the boring design of the noah keyboard). It must be hands-on, intuitive and good-looking (again like nord lead, also the little phatty design is great IMO.
And yeah, a Solaris synth would also be incredible. :smile:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: music251 on 2006-05-06 02:24 ]</font>

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Post by SekondThought » Sat May 06, 2006 3:34 am

Okay - let me set this straight (especially for astroman who seems to quote me out of context).

"you've found a way how to CV control digital 'circuits'?"

ANSWER: Ha ha, very funny!

"each synth was a fortune...that Odyssey in the shop which I couldn't afford as a schoolboy had a price equivalent to 4k Euro today"

ANSWER: Many synths today still are a fortune! You as a "school boy" looking at an Odyssey which you could not afford then is much the same as my 14 year old daughter looking at a Minimoog Voyager or Korg Oasys that she can't afford now!

"you may have noticed the 'sold out' labels in the online shop....but you probably have no idea how long it took them to sellout a handful of items".

ANSWER: Actually, yes I do as I was in contact with the maker of them over a year ago. He made 10 of them. The difference is (and I'll try to be "clear" for you), is that it was a controller, and not many people wanted to pay out that much for something that looked like a moog, but that had to be hooked up to a computer all the time to make a sound like a moog. My point was, that if such a keyboard was to have the Minimax ASB BUILT IN TO IT, it WOULD have sounds and thus be much more attractive!!!!

You may like to know that the top selling Virus in the Access product line (since it's introduction) is the three octave version (now called the Polar, before that was the Redback (limited edition of 500), the Indigo-2 and the original Indigo). I have done my homework on what sells and what doesn't (one of my previous day jobs was market research), so I kindly suggest you get informed facts from industry contacts (as I have done) if you are going to make a valid point because if you simply make humor out of someone else's point of view, you may start to look somewhat foolish!
SekondThought

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