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 Post subject: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore +solution
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:13 am 
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:28 am
Posts: 11
Hello everyone!

I use my creamware NOAH for many years on Windows XP Sp2 now. Some time ago I moved out of my old place and plugged the NOAH in the wrong USB slot and never was able to install the drivers for this USB slot. I have all the possible drivers (Noah 1.1, Noah 1.0) but everytime I tried to install the drivers with the xp hardware client, windows just tells me it couldn't find any working drivers in the directories (Driver/USB). I then somehow resorted back to try every single USB slot on my PC and found the one it was plugged in before. For some strange reason it works this way.

The thing is I now upgraded my Windows OS to WIndows 7 64bit, downloaded Virtual PC 6.1 with the XP-mode (XP sp3) and tried to install the drivers for the NOAH there as well, but without success. Although I entered the right path of the drivers in the hardware manager the manager keeps telling me there are no working drivers and installs nothing... Noah isn't working consequently. I've even gone so far and copied all the resources of the NOAH synth from the system32 dirctory that are shown in the hardware details when I plug Noah into the right port of my Windows XP PC.

Another thing I noticed, is that I can't select "Windows" in the System/Device/USBcom directory of the Noah hardware, like the setupmanual wants me to. I can only select Default/NonDefault.

Plz help me I'm trying for nearly 1 week to get this synth working on Windows 7 or even on another USB-slot in Windows XP without success.

thx in advance, DA_Maz


Last edited by DA_Maz on Mon May 20, 2013 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:00 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Portugal
Have you tried this?:

http://maddoktor2.com/forums/index.php?topic=2752.0


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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
Posts: 20962
Location: ghetto by the sea
don't ever expect it to work in win7.

when Creamware went out of business, Vista had only just been released. there was never and probably never will be any kind of software or drivers for the Noah in Vista/win7/win8.


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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:57 am 
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:28 am
Posts: 11
thx for your quick answers

Tau wrote:


No I haven't. What exactly do you think is their role in my problem? Should i delete the ghost drivers? for what benefit? (I found 3 faded entries for Noah Synth under "other devices" along with one USB audio device)

garyb wrote:
don't ever expect it to work in win7.

when Creamware went out of business, Vista had only just been released. there was never and probably never will be any kind of software or drivers for the Noah in Vista/win7/win8.


I don't expect Noah to just run on Windows 7 (or any other Windows besides XP). I do however hope that I can run the remote software on a virtual XP machine in win 7 like other users on these forums managed to achieve. This way I could still use the graphical interface of NOAH plugins and just have to send the patterns via MIDI instead of USB.

As I can't seem to be able to install NOAH on a completely normal (non-virtual-machine) Windows XP (on a different USB-slot), I figured I'd know what to do on the virtual machine, if I could make it work in normal XP (which should be possible without problems).

Any word on the strange USBcon options of my NOAH? Does someone think that has anything to do with those complications I encounter or is this not a problem when NOAH is able to communicate with my PC on a distinct USB slot?


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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 7943
Location: Germany
not all USB ports are created equal... they just all look the same...
to illustrate:
you won't believe how many different IDE Interfaces are built into compact flash memory cards.
But all are ATA/IDE compatible. I've searched for ages for a specific old device ...
Only by chance I found that (stone age) PCMCIA Cards labeled as ATA compatible will do the job

so you may do everything right, but the parts don't match (noone will be able to check what has been coded back then)
I really wouldn't expect the virtual USB port to do what you expect
there's a tiny chance though, that some hardware matches the 'raw specs' of the USB 'prototype' in a proper way
(as you mention people have succeeded with this setup)

I don't remember the NOAH's release date, but whatever it was...
lookup a small IBM Thinkpad from that era (there are tons of these on eBay from business returns)
use that as the NOAH's dedicated GUI, it will cost just a few bucks - keep it simple ;)

cheers, Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:28 am
Posts: 11
astroman wrote:
not all USB ports are created equal... they just all look the same...
to illustrate:
you won't believe how many different IDE Interfaces are built into compact flash memory cards.
But all are ATA/IDE compatible. I've searched for ages for a specific old device ...
Only by chance I found that (stone age) PCMCIA Cards labeled as ATA compatible will do the job

so you may do everything right, but the parts don't match (noone will be able to check what has been coded back then)
I really wouldn't expect the virtual USB port to do what you expect
there's a tiny chance though, that some hardware matches the 'raw specs' of the USB 'prototype' in a proper way
(as you mention people have succeeded with this setup)

I don't remember the NOAH's release date, but whatever it was...
lookup a small IBM Thinkpad from that era (there are tons of these on eBay from business returns)
use that as the NOAH's dedicated GUI, it will cost just a few bucks - keep it simple ;)

cheers, Tom


thx for this insightfull answer.

Here is what I don't get though: If my NOAH works on my PC in Windows XP in one specific USB slot (although I should be able to install it not just on this one USB-slot) how can this same specific USB slot not work with NOAH when it is used via the same OS (just in an emulated form). According to your theory: If there is no change hardware-wise I should be able to get the same result on the same OS (in emulated form) as long as the OS talks to the NOAH in the same way (same drivers, same OS) am I right?


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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 11:08 am 
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 8:28 am
Posts: 11
Ok I finally made it. Noah runs on Windows 7 with Virtual PC and WinXP mode (but on every other virtual machine as well like the free oracle VM virtualbox. You just need to make vhd out of your old windowsXP installation or install windowsXP on a virtual drive with the right CD)

Here is a detailed description of how to run creamware Noah on Windows 7 64bit:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get Virtual XP to run on your 64bit system-------------------------------------------------

1st: Install Virtual PC 6.1 (don't try to upgrade Virtual PC 2007). It won't create any program in program files or the like though (they are in system32).

2nd: Install WindowsXP mode.

3rd: copy the *.vhd WindowsXPmode installer created. This way you can easily get all the needed writing rights to use this *.vhd

4th: search Windows/system32 for VPCWizard. Execute it. Name your system. Select "use an existing harddrive" and select the copied *.vhd WindowsXPmode installer created. Finish the setup. You should have a shortcut to start virtual WindowsXP.

5th: Start your virtual XP and copy all the needed Noah files on your virtual Harddrive selectable in virtual WindowsXP.

6th: turn on your Noah Synth. Select "USB" at the top of your virtual XP window and attach the Noah synthesiser.

--------------------------------------------------------------
install Noah Synth drivers forcefully-----------------------------

7th: Virtual XP will detect some hardware but will be unable to install your (or at least my) Noah Synth correctly by itself even if you select the path to the correct drivers.

8th: Curse on stupid Windows and do everything yourself: Open the device manager and select the not functioning Noah Synth entry. Go to properities and select "update driver". Select the second option (install software from a list).

9th: Remember the supidity of Windows and choose the third (last) option: Don't search, but choose the driver by yourself. You then will come to a list of devices that have nothing to do with the device you are trying to install.

10th: In this list pick the first "listed device" which is named "show all devices". You will be then redirected to an even more useless list than the first one.

11th: Don't pick any option but instead click at the "have disk" button right below the right index-window.

12th: Browse to Noah/Drivers/USB and select the "cwusbaud" file there. Windows will act up again warning you of system instabillity and the like.

13th: Ignore Windows (like any other stupid entity) and proceed to install "cwusbaud". Magically Windows will now list the Noah Synthesizer as a working USB-device and the Noah MIDI resource will pop up which you can install with just hinting at the Noah/Drivers/USB path and automatic driver installation.

------------------------------------------------
Installing the remote software--------------------

14th: Install the remote software. Start the remote software. If you see that the arpegiator isn't loading in the remote window. Close the Noah-remote-software.

15th: Copy your old Noah directory over the new one and overwrite everything.

16th: Start Noah remote software. You now have a gui for NOAH and can use it via MIDI.
------------------------------------------------------------

17th: Be a happy Noah and laugh at the flood of sh*t Microsoft and creamware put in your way of sailing the sine-, saw- and squarewaves with your wavetable ship.


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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore +soluti
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:57 pm
Posts: 1441
I don't have a NOAH, but who knows one day?

However, I appreciate the complete step-by-step guide you provided for the community. Thanks, in case I need it someday!


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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore +soluti
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2002 4:00 pm
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Location: Germany
I'd call this an amazingly high sustain rate :o
respect for solving the riddle

cheers, Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore +soluti
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 10:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2001 4:00 pm
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Location: ghetto by the sea
yes, it's a good thing for future Noah users.

personally, i'd just get a cheap or freebie laptop. i used to run the Noah editor on an old p3 laptop with 512meg(maybe i did put 1gb in it. i don't think it supported that much) ram running xp. it ran flawlessly and when i sold the Noah, i sent the laptop with it. heck you can get a p4 laptop for free or darn near free these days...

just a lot less trouble...


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 Post subject: Re: Can't install drivers for creamware Noah anymore +soluti
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:19 pm 
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Location: Fourth Dimension Paradise, Cloud Nine!
astroman wrote:
I'd call this an amazingly high sustain rate :o
respect for solving the riddle

cheers, Tom


Wow! Getting some respect coming from Tom himself is not short of amazing... :o :) as he is an extremely good programmer himself.

Glad you did it, and that such knowledge is here for everyone else, this is the beauty of Planet Z! :)

_________________
*MUSIC* The most Powerful Language in the world! *INDEED*


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