Should I buy Noah EX or Scope or Arturia synths?

R.D. Olivaw · Post by **R.D. Olivaw** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:43 pm

mmm
Shroomz, Oddity is based on mkII & Prodyssey on mkIII...
The point is Oddity is a really good emulation of the mkII, and Prodyssey *doesn't* sound like an mkIII, as soon as you use more than one note at a time.
You should try a real Odyssey, you'd immediately understand that Prodyssey is *not* an Odyssey emulation. Whatever the revision.

Sorry for thread hijacking but I dont like misinformation.

next to nothing · Post by **next to nothing** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:14 pm

just to keep this post from being hijacked: read this thread: http://www.planetz.com/forums/viewtopic ... 8&forum=10

and heres how the creator explains (from Matthias reply in that thread):

"Our Prodyssey has some modifications for the reason of polyphony, which I think is an important point. The duophonic mode by splitting the oscillators had to be left away, the drone mode is no more available and the repeat mode had to be modified for that reason. Some might say the original modes were essential, I prefer to have polyphony. I mean we are keyboarders, right? If I wanted to play monophonically only, I could have stuck with my flute lessons in the kindergarden. We of course messured the modulation depth, but it is adjustable...see lower left corner on the second page of the device. We also think that some of the really nurdish stuff shouldn't be rebuilt, like the lfo not restarting after the fourth note, it simply makes no sence with polyphony. But all other aspects are modelled to greatest detail, the dsp modules weren't just taken from the shelf. When you compare our device to the oddity simply go for some fm on the oscillators and on the filter with high resonance, do this by using the S&H mixer with noise, and you'll hear the difference. The Oddity simply sounds blurred with these modulations, which certainly comes from slower calculation or in other words less accuracy of their algorithm. That's the point where you really need to compare. And if it feels right, it is right! And this feeling does not come from features like not restarting something after the fourth note. BTW we already had a proto when the oddity came out and Prodyssey really fits well into the Noah concept, so we saw no reason to stop.

Best, Matthias."

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:02 am

Nice one Piddi, that certainly shines a lot more sense on this.

@RD. I've played several Odysseys & a 2600 grey meanie (owned by a friend who will never sell it). In fact i *prefer* the real thing. I also prefer the Octave Cat to the Odyssey or Mini, but that's personal taste

Oddity doesn't even come into our equation, but if it's part of yours, nobody is knocking you.

Sometimes (a lot of the time) this place seems to get used to *advertise* VSTi's. Not pointing any fingers, just voicing a thought.

So, decided yet then Jupiter4 ??

R.D. Olivaw · Post by **R.D. Olivaw** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:55 am

Matthias' "explanation" doesn't shine any sense on this: What about a poly/duo/mono switch? If he thinks duophony is for children learning flute, then he should emulate something else. Of course Prodyssey's creator says his baby is the most beautiful baby, but I know what I heard from former ARP guys. BTW I have both Oddity & Prodyssey and I know which one I use. End of Story.

Shroomz: "advertize VSTi"???
You mean talking freely about what can be compared to CW products... Comparisons are one of the basis of forums. Ask Jupiter4 what he thinks about it.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:24 am

Comparisons of the variety here don't make sense. End of story. I've already voiced that opinion. Why compare them when they are different & were NEVER meant to be the same as one-another? Like i said, such comparisons are about as usefull as a chocolate teapot.

R.D. Olivaw · Post by **R.D. Olivaw** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:46 am

As I said five posts higher, I can still say that the Oddity is a closer emulation of the mkII than the Prodyssey is of the mkIII (if u get my french english). For me and many other, an Odyssey emulation without duophony is not an Odyssey emulation. Whatever the revision. Even if the Prodyssey sounds good.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:57 am

JP4, we are having no problems with our Noah EX. We can create & save our own Multis & presets no problem from the software. There is a sequence of events, which if followed should not give you any problems. In multi mode the Noah truly excels. Last night i was running Vectron & Prodyssey to test the poly capabilities of Vectron (14 voice in single).
When you switch to Multi & load Prodyssey with 2 note poly, Vectrons poly drops to 10. This is how the Noah works (use more slots, get less poly on each slot) In this sense it is very nice indeed & quite dynamic. It's a wonderfull machine to take the burdon off your Scope system as someone can edit Noah remotely while someone else mixes in Scope.
I cannot vouch for the reliabiltiy of transfering audio via usb, as we use the Adat (which is working flawlessly for us), but we certainly haven't had any problems with the USB connecion for midi send/recieve or remote editing.

Something worth clarifying too are the apps, which are Prodyssey, Pro-one, Minimax, Lightwave, B2003, Six-string, Vocodizer, Interpole, EDSi-8, Vectron (beta), Vectron player.

I make that 10 apps (not counting Vectron as it's still a beta)

I find it very interesting to look at the Noah from a different perspective too. For example, the fact that you can load 2 Interpole filters & 2 Vocodizers into Noahs 4 part(slot) mixing enviroment, means that from a different point of view with a Noah you would have one of the most powerfull hardware FX boxes around. You've got Chorous, Reverb & delay on dedicated sends & returns & you've got a massive list of insert effects at your disposal. You can have 2 inserts per channel (including the USB & analogue input channels) & another 2 on the mix for compression or whatever takes your fancy. How many FX units do you know of that have all of this with full remote editing software ?

That's before you even load a synth

R.D. Olivaw · Post by **R.D. Olivaw** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:09 am

On 2005-09-30 02:57, Shroomz wrote:
You can have 2 inserts per channel (including the USB & analogue input channels) & another 2 on the mix for compression or whatever takes your fancy.

This is only half the truth...
Actually you can have only a total of 2 inserts used for the whole Noah. Which is quite different.
And that's really weak compared to what a Receptor can do.
Noah's effects are good but the Noah isn't a powerful FX box. It's a great synth with great effects.

... But is JP4 still reading this thread? or is he enjoying his brand new Receptor right now?

[ This Message was edited by: R.D. Olivaw on 2005-09-30 06:10 ]

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:20 am

I stand corrected, RD is right there.

What i was trying to say is that asides from the huge multitimbral & polyphonic synthesis power, the Noah is also probably the most powerfull filter & vocoder in a rack on the market. On top of the potential to have 2 interpole filters & 2 vocodizers running, you have a choice of 2 insert FX from a huge variety & 3 master send FX (reverb, chorus & delay) to add to the bargain. Show me a decent competitor to the Noah in the filter/vocoder market

R.D. Olivaw · Post by **R.D. Olivaw** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:13 am

It's true in the vocoder market nothing comes close to the Vocodizer.
But talking about filters, a Receptor with, let's say, PSP Nitro + QuadFrohmage + Minimonsta (which is awesomely better than Interpole) organized as you wish on the 16 different channels... And Receptor offers 32 audio inputs (on 32-bits format) via Uniwire...
The problem with Receptor is that the VSTi world is not the better world as soon as we talk about V.A.

braincell · Post by **braincell** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:37 am

For less worry get the EX.

Jupiter4 · Post by **Jupiter4** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:57 am

Hi guys, have been away and not been able to access the internet. Some interesting thoughts here. I have not made a purchase yet and am in the final stages of deciding.

My thoughts on the Muse Receptor v Noah are that the Noah is likely to work better as the software and hardware were made specifically for each other; but I might be wrong. I am not interested in having to sort out bugs and software issues, I just want to be able to play a reliable instrument that is intuitive to use and does not require frequent reference to the manual. If this is required of the Noah then I will buy something else. As a piont of reference I have read up on Scope, and despite claims here that is easy to use, it would not be easy for me.

The openended nature of the Muse is very appealing. The sound of the Arturia synths is highly regarded by respected synth gurus, but of course I would expect Creamware owners to typically say that Creamware sounds better (Proddysey aside - but I would rather have poliphony and authentic osscilator and filter sound than authentic architecture).

There is a site with 40 different synths playing the same synth part and it is very hard to tell what synth is playing.
http://www.znarfelectronix.de/frames/hoertest.html

Interestingly enough the Nord came out very well to my ears as did the Waldorf, better than a lot of the software and all of the Romplers, some of the vinatge sytnhs stood out, some didn't. The Creamware modular actually did not sound that great to my ears.

As I would be buying the Noah and Receptor blind I need a little more convincing that the Noah is a good relaible package. I think that it would sound ok, but reliability and ease of use is important. I do not want to get the manual out each time I boot it up just to work out how to route a sound to the output.

Thanks again for all of your comments.

PS I am happy for you guys to name as many VSTis and other systems as you like as a Creamware forum where only creamware is discussed and recommended is not my cup of tea.

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:12 am

On 2005-10-09 05:57, Jupiter4 wrote:
[...] The sound of the Arturia synths is highly regarded by respected synth gurus [...]

*cough* *cough*
some of them *may* get paid... you never know

Jupiter4 · Post by **Jupiter4** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:36 am

On 2005-10-09 06:12, kybernaut_01 wrote:
On 2005-10-09 05:57, Jupiter4 wrote:
[...] The sound of the Arturia synths is highly regarded by respected synth gurus [...]
*cough* *cough*
some of them *may* get paid... you never know

I know one of them and he is the straightest guy I know. His reviews in certain respected magazines often have many bad points as well as the good, unlike some reviewers.

Are you suggesting that Creamware owners on a Creamware forum are more likely to be more honest than a reviewer who relies on his/her reputation to be able to get future work?

kybernaut_01 · Post by **kybernaut_01** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:31 am

Arturia is way overrated, in my humble opinion. They sell beautiful photographs of vintage synths with a standard subtractive synth engine, slightly modified for every product.

Personally, I respect SoS for their synth reviews and there have been plenty of criticism about Arturia synths.

Sorry again, don't want to offen anybody, but this is my opinion about Arturia.

Liquid Len · Post by **Liquid Len** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:37 am

On 2005-10-09 05:57, Jupiter4 wrote:
Hi guys, have been away and not been able to access the internet. Some interesting thoughts here. I have not made a purchase yet and am in the final stages of deciding.

Is there any way you could possibly go into a music store and try out the instruments YOURSELF and make your own judgement on whether it sounds good to you or not? There's not really much to add to what's been written here. (I've been in music stores and tried out the Nords, and to my ears the Noah sounds way better, and it reacts more expressively to playing.) And I have a copy of NI's B4 and Pro-53, and neither of them (VSTis) come remotely close to the Noah - though the different tonewheels for the B4 are a neat toy (anyone ever think of creating those for Creamware?).

[ This Message was edited by: Liquid Len on 2005-10-09 07:39 ]

Jupiter4 · Post by **Jupiter4** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:08 am

Hi Len, unfortunately cannot demo for two reasons - no dealers in London have any one demo. At the moment I am working as a consultant and am in a hotel away from home Monday to Friday for the next two months. I have been offered a deal on a second hand Noah and need to make a quick decision.

Len a question for you. I am not a technical boffin so do not see the difference between a DSP synth like the Noah, Yamaha AN board etc and a VSTi. The Arturia, and no doubt other VSTis, do not work off samples, they are modelling just as the Noah is. What is the difference please? Is it not down to whether you prefer the sound or not? I personanly like my Akai SG01v better than many of the sounds in my Roland SRX Classic Keys card.

Shroomz~> · Post by **Shroomz~>** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:04 pm

JP4, it's the difference between an 'Arturia' (or whatever) synth which is programmed in C++ for a CPU which is general purpose & a Noah, Scope, Chameleon, Ti etc etc synth/system which is programmed with a *combination* of C++ & low-level 'asm' DSP code for the high quality DSPs everyone is so mad about here. These Sharc DSPs (not Motorola like Ti etc) are faster than the older generation Pro Tools ones, they have special parallel instruction pipelines, they have virtually no registry starvation. They eat up fast audio mathematics of the highest calliber, delivering stable, reliable results of the highest quality. So, when you stick 11 of them in a Noah EX, you've got a turbo fueled synth engine. It works virtually flawlessly, although with something this deep you'll have to turn to the manual now & again, maybe for the install procedure or whatever. It's a fantastic synth & i'd recommend a Noah EX to anyone!!!

P.S. This 'no-keys' Beta of 'Vectron' sounds amazing on the Noah BTW

R.D. Olivaw · Post by **R.D. Olivaw** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:04 pm

just a few things:

Jupiter4: when I buyed my Noah EX I didn't need to refer to the manual to make it work. If you plan to program everything directly on the unit, you'll need to open the manual, for it's not that intuitive.
But if you plan to program The Noah via its Remote Software, you'll learn everything by yourself (w/o referring to PDFs or things like that) very quickly. The Remote Software couldn't be more intuitive than it is. Very easy to understand and use.

The other interesting point is that I tested deeply the Receptor last week (5-6 hours). And I can tell you this thing is still very very buggy. Lots of VST/VSTi that are supposed to be supported by Muse Research don't work very well yet (or don't work at all...), freewares or not. There are some serious CPU issues, introducing clics and other annoying things.

The Uniwire is still not ready, and if you plan to control the Receptor with its Remote directly on your computer, you'll have to be patient because the Receptor reacts veeeery slowly to what you're doing on your computer. If you have a dedicated screen+mouse+keyboard to plug in the Receptor, this problem disappear though.
Buying a Receptor is almost like buying a PC, you'll spend a lot of time in the nighmare of configuration. The Receptor could be something reliable & interesting in the future, but for now it isn't.

If you can't test Arturia "synths" by yourself, don't believe the forums hype. I remember a little "scandal" on another forum, where the posters discovered one of them was working for *cough* *cough*

[ This Message was edited by: R.D. Olivaw on 2005-10-09 13:09 ]