Ableton live 9 and xtc: problems with midi

Discuss Scope XTC mode.
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goaFromLivingRoom
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Ableton live 9 and xtc: problems with midi

Post by goaFromLivingRoom » Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:36 am

Hi,

i just installed ableton live 9.1 beta. I want to run scope cards with xtc. I work with SFP 4.0.

All synths and effects are recognized from live and they work.

What is not working is as follows:

I move one xtc-synth to midi track. then i play and record midi, works fine. Then i assign some knobs of xtc-synth to automate them (by pressing arrow and configure button of xtc-plugin in ableton). That works fine as well, and i can automate my synth with push without problems. But after more or less one minute, ableton crashes and i hear stuttering sound all the time until ableton is shutdown and waiting 10 seconds.

It seams that there are problems with midi. How can i solve it? If i don't assign xtc-knobs to automate them, then the system works fine. Perhaps i have to chance some midi setups in ableton?

If i solve this problem, then working with xtc is possible in live. Do somebody know the solution? I switched ableton to single core as well, but it didn't solve the problem.
MB Asus P5K-E, 1 x Scope 1 x Pulsar 1 x Elektra: Scope is the host, Winxp Prof, BCF2000

djmicron
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Re: Ableton live 9 and xtc: problems with midi

Post by djmicron » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:44 am

it looks like you are sending hi resolution midi to scope.
Check if there is an option in Live that allows to disable hi resolution midi messages.
I don't use Live so this is what i guess.
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Eanna
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Re: Ableton live 9 and xtc: problems with midi

Post by Eanna » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:39 pm

I'm on Ableton 9.0.5, but I don't use XTC mode...
I just route Midi to Scope, and either use Scope ASIO, or send a Scope mix via SPDIF to my Scarlett 6i6.
So I am not much help with XTC mode...

But I see you are on a Beta release of Ableton (9.1).
Did you have this issue using XTC mode in previous versions of Ableton?

And are you running Ableton 64-bit? I see you're on Scope 4.0...

Any other soft synths behave this way?
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...

Eanna
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Re: Ableton live 9 and xtc: problems with midi

Post by Eanna » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:36 pm

Not sure about high res midi - not sure what it is.

But one things for sure, Ableton doesn't do NPRN (or Sysex)... You cannot send NRPN from Ableton's macros, and Ableton actively filters out NRPN and Sysex from Midi In streams...

So, if High Res Midi means NRPN, then no, Ableton cannot be sending it to the XTC synth...
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...

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goaFromLivingRoom
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Re: Ableton live 9 and xtc: problems with midi

Post by goaFromLivingRoom » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:11 am

I read that push uses a special midi protocoll to reach higher midi performance. There it could be true. There are different behaviours of midi assignment:

a) if i use right mouse button to assign midi from push, then midi signal is recognized from xtc synth. But if i turn the knob in push, then there is only sent 0 or 127 to xtc synth (works viceversa)

b) if i use ableton configure button, then i can turn the knob in push and the knob reacts properly. But after a short time ableton crashes.

Perhaps there exist some max for live plugins which works with push. But i don't know it.
MB Asus P5K-E, 1 x Scope 1 x Pulsar 1 x Elektra: Scope is the host, Winxp Prof, BCF2000

Eanna
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Re: Ableton live 9 and xtc: problems with midi

Post by Eanna » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:16 am

I'm think that Push doesn't communicate with Ableton using Midi over USB. I think it uses a proprietary protocol that communicates with Ableton to the Remote Scripts, and the Remote scripts call use Live API calls to make changes to Live's state.

The Push driver does send regular Midi Note values from the Pads. But the rest is proprietary, including the encoders, I think.

As for Max devices for sending CC, I use ControlChange8 from Robert Henke, it works great:
http://roberthenke.com/technology/m4l.html

Did you have these problems on previous non-beta versions of Ableton?
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...

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goaFromLivingRoom
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Re: Ableton live 9 and xtc: problems with midi

Post by goaFromLivingRoom » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:34 am

I have the problems on ableton live 9.0 (official) and on ableton live 9.1 (beta) as well.
I solved now the problem by using M4L "CC sender 16". Then i could automate the synths. But sometimes i use a knob from xtc synth with the mouse and push doesn't react anymore, ableton is then froozen but continues to play. Sometimes it works great. Can i catch the midi signals which i send from xtc synth to live with one M4L tool as well? Then the problem could be solved.

Another problem now happens with "MultiFX S": When i save my project and reload it, "MultiFX S" cannot be loaded. Ableton says that it cannot find "MultiFX S". It's strange because it is shown in the ableton browers in section "Plug-ins/XTC/others" directory.

If we could solve this problem then i am able to work. With xtc it is another workflow, for me better and more intuitive.

Do somebody know the solution?
MB Asus P5K-E, 1 x Scope 1 x Pulsar 1 x Elektra: Scope is the host, Winxp Prof, BCF2000

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