Simple XTC - Advice Needed - Is this Even Possible?

Discuss Scope XTC mode.

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Scotty
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Simple XTC - Advice Needed - Is this Even Possible?

Post by Scotty »

Ok , i have cubase reading the default xtcpro file, loading up synths and efx. The default though is using the analog ins and outs and is very complex looking and not what I need. have a mixed 3 card system with a luna 2 for low asio.

This is what I need. I

I need I bank of adat ins, I bank of adat outs. I want the sound of the synths to be routed directly to the digital outputs for zero latency OR back to cubase for further processing. I would like spdif in and out as well.
I will use one set of midi inputs and outputs. All midi ins / outs and asio / digital outputs will be on the pulsar card.

I will use the universal remote to create mapping templates for my special creamware synths. This box is a creamware rig and is not my main DAW.

Where do i get started is this even possible?
voidar
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Post by voidar »

You need to be familiar with Scope OS routing to get anything out of XTC-mode.

First back-up XTCproject.pro, then edit it to your needs.

Do you want to load synths from within cubase or do you want to pre-load them upon start-up?

If you want to load them from within cubase as XTC-devices, you will need to connect the outputs of the DirectPlayMixerContainer module (found in XTCproject.pro) to your monitoring outputs.

Your other monitoring outputs should be summen and connected to the inputs of Merge module. Connect the Merge modules outputs with its own inputs, and then connect the Merge modules outputs to a ASIO input pair for recording what you hear.

Of course, you can also hook up indidivual ASIO outputs directly to inputs for loop-back recording.

Please read this too: http://www.planetz.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21774
Scotty
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Post by Scotty »

This forum is fantastic. I combed several pages of XTC hints and tips and I am going to proceed with the benefit of the knowledge obtained from this site. It is not typical to have such a useful forum. IT would seem that Creamware users are are into making this work work and not too heavily into needless putdowns and chest thumping. I am very thankful to the contributers and to the host of t his site for making this such a useful place to visit. I can only imagine how many creamware sales can be attibuted to this place. I have 4 used cards now after only three months and I am looking to go "pro classic" with my next purchase to replace my rme card in my E6600 rig. I'll post to indicate my success and ask more specific questions if I run into problems. - Scotty.
voidar
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Post by voidar »

Great to hear :).

For sure, the community surrounding this hardware has been invaluable to the developers of the platform, but one has to thank the developers for creation of this fantastic platform too of course. It's a symbiose :)

Are you running more than one computer with all those cards?
Scotty
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Post by Scotty »

Almost there! I modified the xtcpro file and have all of my desired adat ins and outs working as well as spdif , midi, bouncing tracks work . I also get the latency set to 4 ms using the cset.ini tweaks. I converted a few plug-ins to load as xtc to make sure I understood the concept all is fine.

[recap , I only wanted to use the ins and outs of one card basically 4 adat in/out pairs, midi, spdif and no anlog ins or outs)

Lets say that I want to have an xtc bluesynth using directplay to bypass the asio latency.

Now if I understand correctly , I can assume the following: Please correct my assumptions.

Within my host (Cubase SX 3 in my case) I can load the synth as a vst and experience the latency of the asio driver times 2 . T or F

If I want to bypass the asio latency, I can click on the directplay button, make sure that the midi inputs on the plug-in are set the actual keyboard inputs and the sound can be routed directly to a hardware output that I specifiy in the xtcpro configuration. T or F

If in directplay mode , the midi is coming from the sequencer , I won't hear the plug-in , in otherwords, the midi has to come directly from the midi port that the keyboard is attached to. T or F


I can set the directplay device in the xtcpro document to route to any output but probably best to output it to an adat pair that I have not configured to use in Cubase (e.g. I have set up 3 adat pairs to be used as outputs to my digital mixer , I can use adats 7 and 8 for directplay monitoring. T or F



Voidar, I have 3 cards in an ahtlon xp rig under windows XP. The other card lives in an Itox Dragon with an Oasys PCI under 98. I route the Oasys into the pulsar 1 for some creative mixing and sound design.
voidar
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Post by voidar »

I will try to do my best.
Scotty wrote: Within my host (Cubase SX 3 in my case) I can load the synth as a vst and experience the latency of the asio driver times 2 . T or F
You should only be experiencing latency from one cycle of ASIO, but obvioously the MIDI has some latency too, so you might be correct.
If I want to bypass the asio latency, I can click on the directplay button, make sure that the midi inputs on the plug-in are set the actual keyboard inputs and the sound can be routed directly to a hardware output that I specifiy in the xtcpro configuration. T or F
You seem to be correct. You select MIDI-input and hit the direct-button.
I think the idea of this is for performance reasons only, like Direct Monitoring is for incoming audio. You should record the same MIDI-stream to your sequencer while in direct mode and in record/playback. After that you exit direct mode and any latency upon playback will be corrected. Now is the time to add processing as well, or even "bounce" the track.

If in directplay mode , the midi is coming from the sequencer , I won't hear the plug-in , in otherwords, the midi has to come directly from the midi port that the keyboard is attached to. T or F
Yes, as you are in fact playing the synth from outside the sequencer.
The manual tells of a green mode too where the synth additionaly sends audio into the sequencer. I guess this is usefull for real-time audio recording of the synth (Merge module). Or perhaps Voxengo Recorder or Tape it works better.
I can set the directplay device in the xtcpro document to route to any output but probably best to output it to an adat pair that I have not configured to use in Cubase (e.g. I have set up 3 adat pairs to be used as outputs to my digital mixer , I can use adats 7 and 8 for directplay monitoring. T or F
The DirectPlay... module will also pass audio sent to Merge module it seems, so I don't think you will have the isolation you speak of.
But yes, you can route it to whatever output you wish.


You seem to be catching on pretty quick :).
Scotty
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Post by Scotty »

Thanks for your replies, if the latency is truly one asio cylce and a bit of midi lag then I can live without directplay. 4ms is as low as I need to go. If I need lower than I can rig up something in the routing window and avoid cubase .

I thought that I read somewhere that xtc required a trip to and from the card and doubled the asio latency. Perhaps that reference was for people who had disabled the io and were usng the card as a dsp only rig with a 3rd party audio card.

I really only needed to get xtc working so that could create some custom templates for my bcr2000 using the generic remote. I wanted a poor man's asb minimax as I created some nice overlays for my g-media moog and want that real moog sound. I cut my teeth on a radioshack moog mg-1 which I still have and was floored with the minimax.

I've got system link working now so I have the flexibility of linking the computers and using the creamware box as a sample accurate extension of my main DAW.

I am hoping that creamware comes out with a super-pro card . Compared to the vst count that I can get on my e6600 DAW the sharcs are getting a little long in the tooth (pardon the pun). If they come out with something equivalent to40 dsps on one card with triple adat io , for under $2500.00 it would be a no- brainer for me.
voidar
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Post by voidar »

Ah, yes, you might be right.
The VST actually has to receive audio from DSP too at first which probably equals an ASIO cycle.

Yes, these SHARCs are getting old, yet I would prefere that I would still be able to use my bought plugs on any updated hardware. The biggest bottle-neck is the limited on-board memory and thus heavy load on the PCI-bus.

Anyway, I wish you happy trailing :).
musurgio
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xtc

Post by musurgio »

Just a stupid question here...
Why not just use SFP with 0 latency than XTC ?
I see no benefits at all with XTC ?
Regards,
Dimitrios
Scotty
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Post by Scotty »

Advantage 1 :

When hosted in Cubase, all of the parameters of the xtc enabled plug-ins can be automated at a very fine resolutions , preventing zippering which is especially noticeable during filter sweeps. if you have a Makie Control Surface or Hui, all of the parameters come up automatically and you don't have to learn control numbers. Some controllers emulate the Makie which is the case of Behringer BCF2000. Again this comes up in automation under cubase and the detail is much finer than midi cc data.

If you use a generic control interface (Cubase supports this mode) you can create templates for each synth xtc and regular vst using one controller setup on the unit (I use the bcr2000) and reassign each knob/button to specific knob or button on a particular synth. Each map is saved to a drop down list. Create special graphic overlays for each synth and you have a dedicated controller mapped just they way you like it to any particular synth that you care to support in this way. Once again the automation shows up in the automation track is at a fine resolution.

Advantage 2:
Keeping it within Cubase is neat and tidy. You manage only one song file. You can use the freeze functions in Cubase to free up resources.

Advantage 3:
When hosted in Cubase, two or mores DAWs can be linked together using system link and all sequenced and recorded material plays back in perfect sample accurate sync.

Disadvantege : not all plug-ins work , complex routings for sound design isn't as easy.

Solution: Use both modes as needed but not at the same time.

Hope that helps to answer your question.
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next to nothing
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Post by next to nothing »

Scotty wrote:Advantage 2:
Keeping it within Cubase is neat and tidy. You manage only one song file. You can use the freeze functions in Cubase to free up resources.
Oops. heres a catch: Synths/effects in XTC-mode cant use the "freeze" function as far as i know.
voidar
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Post by voidar »

I find using XTC-mode with REAPER quite unbeatable. Route how you like, where you like and when you like, and then record the output internally in REAPER - all perfectly PDC'ed - or bus out to a mixer through ASIO and back for final summing.

This time I think I will stay on XTC :)..
Scotty
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Post by Scotty »

Ok , how does reaper do its thing? I read about reaper on KVR. What advantages does it offer. Correct on the freeze function regarding Cubase and XTC , intended to indicate specifically use freeze to save computer resources as part of the song file and vst.
voidar
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Post by voidar »

You could download an unrestricted 30 day trial of REAPER on www.cockos.com. I would have to say you need to find out for yourself if you like that host, but it's got some good editing functions, plugins, 64-bit float signal path, flexible routing (every track to any other track, and back).

Though as a Cubase user I think you will find the MIDI lacking. Also, there is no MTC yet.

The thing with freeze is that it is a bouce. Scope operates in real time just like an external rack effect (like a Lexicon), thus you will have to record your used resources in real time.
Scotty
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Post by Scotty »

I'll give it a shot, it is not my main DAW , this computer is a support box only which hosts my creamware cards. I have a more powerful machine for my main DAW.
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