Pulsar I, MOTU Ultra Lite and Cubase SX3 -> XTC Problems

Discuss Scope XTC mode.

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SevenEleven7_11
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Post by SevenEleven7_11 »

I recently bought a MOTU Ultra Lite firewire-interface. I want to use its I/O's, which means that i have to select the MOTU Asio Driver in Cubase. I would like to use my Pulsar I in XTC-Mode as a DSP accelerator. This is only possible if i choose the SCOPE Asio Driver. So the Problem is obvious...

I already tried to change the XTCproject.pro:
I loaded an 8-channel Asio Driver, 4 soundcard sources and destinations and connected the Asio outs with the soundcard ins and the other way around. Then i selectet the SCOPE Asio Driver in Cubase. 2 Problems occured:
1.) I expectet Cubase to recognize 8 Asio channels, but it detected 2 Asio-, 2 SP/DIF-, 2 soundcard-, and 2 Pulsar Analog Inputs. I could select my MOTU Mic Input (which i connectet to the first sound card dest. to channel 1(L)) through choosing sound card channel 2(R) in Cubase. But there was another Problem:
2.) The Latency was unacceptabely high.

Does anyone have an Idea? I was thinking about some extenal Asio Driver in the XTCproject.pro and selecting the MOTU Driver in Cubase, but i could'nt find anything like that in my software I/O's...
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

first, welcome and please don't double post.

the motu is superfulous. the pulsar and a16 are much better converters. if you wish to use the motu, you'll have to disable the card's i/o. i'm not sure if that's even possible with a p1. there is a program in the scope folder called the i/o enabler. maybe you can eliminate the p1's i/o there.

the sound card source module won't work for your purposes. the only way to connect to the motu directly through the p1 is through cubase. this is not possible using xtc and asio as there can be only one asio driver used at a time and both interfaces want to use asio.

try the i/o enabler. if you can disable the scope i/o, then you can use the p1 as an accelerator card and the motu as the asio i/o.

imho, it's be better to just use the scope card in scope mode with an a16 ultra or to save money, a behringer ada800 via adat. the behringer has 8 mic pres for $230 and it is no worse in quality than the motu. a p2, luna2 or scope home or project would really help too so that you'd get the 2nd generation cards' benefits as well.

if you do use the scope asio driver, be sure you choose asioSCOPE in cubase and not asiomme.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: garyb on 2006-10-10 11:19 ]</font>
SevenEleven7_11
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Post by SevenEleven7_11 »

Sorry for the double post. I didnt now where the right place was to post that topic.

I tried the I/O Enabler but it didnt work out. It still says "Pulsar cannot be used in accelerater mode" when i load an xtc plug.

I decided to buy that motu because i want to use it with my laptop too. An ADAT converter wont do in that case. And because my p1 doesnt offer 12 ins and 14 outs i use it with my pc too :smile:
It would be a shame to throw the p1 away anyway. If you have another idea, please let me know. Tanks
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

the p1 won't work that way. sorry... the p1 will give you 20 ins and outs. it would be a shame to lose it, but it's not going to play well with the motu. you could use the motu when you needed more i/o and the p1 at other times, it's one or the other.
SevenEleven7_11
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Post by SevenEleven7_11 »

Well, i see...
I thought a lot about this problem now.
Another idea is to change the interface with one which offers adat. i could connect my laptop to the adat link of the pulsar via vst-systemlink and could use the power of two processors, use the xtc plugs AND the I/O's of the interface...
So what do you think of the converters of an tc electronic konnekt 24?
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garyb
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Post by garyb »

very usable i'm sure.
andivax
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Post by andivax »

i recomend you to use your Pulsar card. It's awesome.
And buy cheap audio card for your laptop.
I am using Echo Indigo IO (1 in / 1 out) and i am happy.
scratch17
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Post by scratch17 »

I am a total Scope novice. However, I have a MOTU Traveler and SX3, and I'm very familiar with these products.

If the Traveler is any indication, the Ultralite has very good A/D converters. I won't say there aren't other good interfaces available with better converters, but most reviewers love the sound of MOTU's Firewire interface converters.

The problem isn't with the Ultralite or with the Pulsar card. The problem is with Cubase and Windows.

As a general rule, Cubase (running on Windows) can only accept one ASIO driver at a time. The mods on the Cubase forum say that the issue is at the kernel level of Win XP. They say they hope the issue is resolved in Vista. Don't hold your breath!

There are some exceptions.

Some manufacturers (MOTU included), design their ASIO drivers for Windows so that the driver can see more than one interface, and the driver combines these interfaces into what Cubase sees as one large piece of hardware. So, for example, you could run a Traveler and an Ultralite and Cubase would see the combined inputs and outputs of both.

Asio4all is also a possibility. I've not used it, and have heard that it absolutely works and that it absolutely doesn't work.

There is also a company (Centrance) that makes a low-latency driver that can run multiple interfaces under its umbrella as if they were one big one, like the MOTU example above. The driver works with some manufacturers interfaces, but not all. Unfortunately, Creamware and MOTU aren't compatible with the Centrance driver.

This driver in the future, may support these interfaces. The fact is, Windows is a maze, but if Centrance has written a driver that can combine interfaces, I really don't see why Steinberg can't do it.

In the meantime, you may have other options with the hardware you already own.

I am not certain that you can use XTC mode with this solution, but at least you get to use the Pulsar 1 as a DSP accelerator and still use the Ultralite as your audio card.

First, connect the SPDIF output on the P1 card to the SPDIF input on the MOTU. Make the same connections between the two interfaces for the other pair of SPDIF jacks. Just remember: out goes to in and in goes to out.

You'll have to use the SPDIF coaxial connection to synchronize the two devices. Set the Ultralite to master and the P1 to slave. Again, I don't know enough about XTC mode, but you can certainly use the mixers in Scope to feed the audio from the Scope platform into the Ultralite via SPDIF.

Now in Cubase, select the Ultralite as your audio interface. You no longer need an ASIO driver for your P1 card.

Another option would be MOTU's 8Pre interface which is Firewire based, and has four ADAT inputs. It sells for about what the Ultralite does, so if you can still do so, an exchange would be a good idea. With an 8Pre, you could use the ADAT outputs of the Pulsar 1 card as a source. You'd set up the same way as I described above with the Ultralite. However, instead of using SPDIF, you'd use ADAT. All steps would be the same, but now you'd have 8 Scope outputs available, instead of two.

System Link is a viable option that may even allow you to use XTC mode with the P1 card in Cubase.

The setup is a bit more complicated, and may have too much latency with the P1 card and Ultralite. System Link total latency is the combined latency of all nodes. In this case, you'd have 2 nodes, the P1 and the Ultralite. However, if you can live with the latency, you can do it with your current hardware.

Set up each interface on a different computer, using its own ASIO driver. Since you have SPDIF on both interfaces simply connect the two input/output pairs and set up System Link on both computers in Cubase. I'm not going to describe that procedure here. You can read the Cubase manual for instructions.

You will end up with two channels of fully synchronized input and output between the two computers.

If you must use XTC mode, I believe that adding a Scope 4.5 Home card and keeping your P1 and Ultralite are the way to go. You'd connect the P1 to the Scope card via S/TDM. Advantages: you get far more DSP and (from what I've read) much lower latency (3 ms when connected via S/TDM to a Scope card, vs. 13 ms for just the P1 card). Plus, the Scope card should work with the I/O enabler, so you can turn off the input/output of both cards.

I hope this info is helpful. Good luck.
Steven K
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