Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

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dawman
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Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by dawman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:30 am

I’m looking to add a spare for my XITE-1.
There’s no Model Ds around and no Pro Cards so I’m looking for something that has 16 Analog I/Os and a software mixer that can be controlled by MIDI.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

FWIW UAD forum members say yes, then some say no, the manual makes no mention of it, and there’s thread of people complaining there’s no MIDI For plug ins of mixes.

Guess we were kind of spoiled by Scope, decade at least ahead of thtime competition.

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Janni
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by Janni » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:49 pm

Every RME card or interface is controlled by the TotalMix software.
TotalMix can be controlled by MackieControl or OSC.
The big USB/Thunderbolt Interfaces can be controlled directly (standalone), no Computer needed.
Some of them even via iPad
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/totalmi ... 65887?mt=8
Here is RMEs Lemur/OSC patch
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=17445
Just plug in a USB-Stick and record all channels like VDAT does.
Here is a little overview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msD2fnAEwec

Metric Halo has also made a big jump. The new mio console is said to be controllable via mackie and euphonix protocol.

Maybe this might be of interest too:
https://www.keithmcmillen.com/products/k-mix/

If you don't like an ipad as controller, arduino might have a solution...

Maybe this company has a solution in the future :D
http://makeproaudio.com/
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dawman
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by dawman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:31 pm

Nice stuff but I’m not into iPad mixing, I need automation via MIDI, my hands need to play parts so I can’t be fiddling around with Touch anything.
However our FOH uses an iPad and the Midas M32 and it’s fantastic, but I buy MIDI Controllers to run racks of PCs and Analog Synths.
Automation is what I need.
When I change to a scene I need octaves transposed, presets changed, effects levels set, the right effect, etc.

Much more stuff than “mixing” but I’m going to check out some of your links, thanks.
Maybe one of them actually has the right click, move a controller, voila trick.

It seems everyone thinks on the level of engineer, producer, sound man, etc.
Forgetting about us schmucks in the trench.

Cheerz..

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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by dawman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:35 pm

Make Pro Audio makes absolutely no sense, but Im an old keyboard cowboy trying to stay in his saddle, not a visionary, just a dude with eas and chops.

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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by dawman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:57 pm

I give up. This Mackie stuff is fine but nobody seems to have cool mixers like Im use to.
And they have no MIDI Automation.

I guess Scope is where I stay.
I’m just getting nervous because for years I beat this stuff up and sooner or later it’s going to stop working.

My only other option is an RME and a nice MIDI Controlled Mixer.

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Janni
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by Janni » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:27 am

I agree... Scope just gives you all you want in one package.
The only thing that comes to my mind if you're after the "right click and go" thing is to take a reliable and FAST!!!! soundcard
(RME Raydat since you have got an A16Ultra) and use a really simple Ableton Live Setup.
No fancy Clip editing bla bla shit, just use Live's Mixer (which is pretty cool).
You could try this out with your XITE and the demo Version of Live and maybe I could help you with the first steps
to set up a project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0DM9JbkQBA

the example shows that one knob controls three Parameters. You already did this in scope, but in Live this is much more comfortable.

Since you already have the PC and ADDA, that would cost you time (for learning Live), about 300$ for a used RayDat and 80-600$ for Live.
And as I said, you could try that out with no cost at all.
And it would be an honor for me to get you started with Live :)
Soundquality of Scope is a little bit better...

https://www.ableton.com/de/trial/
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dawman
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by dawman » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:58 pm

I’m going to look into this after New Years.
If Lives Mixer is that good I’ll be happy to have a spare set up.
I could do my drawbar trick too it sounds like.
Multiple Controls via 1 x MIDI CC.....
Nice.

RMEs have solid drivers too.

Ultimately I’d prefer an XITE-1D.

But nobody’s selling.

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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by jksuperstar » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:53 pm

Harrison's Mixbus is pretty cheap ($79), and will work with scope and VSTs the same as any other DAW. It's just primarily a mixer, which is what you are after.
https://harrisonconsoles.com/site/mixbus.html

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valis
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by valis » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:26 am

Fairly sure he is looking at a hardware solution that can survive a software crash. Scope does fit this bill, even though it has a software frontend.

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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by jksuperstar » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:27 pm

True, but if Ableton was considered just for mixing, I'd skip it. It does compression on the master outs without user control (only if you overdrive the outputs), but it is very flexible (it doesnt *do* anything other than provide basic solo/mute, cross-fading, and send/returns. If you wanted a hardware like mixer, Harrison is much more feature rich yet simple to use. And supports user-customized macro keys.

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Janni
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by Janni » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:09 pm

For live use I would prefer Ableton Live.
It's really stable in use for that purpose in every context you could imagine around the whole world.

The mixer has many, many useful features for live mixing no other system has (ok, maybe bitwig).
Changing whole signal chains on a channel is setup in minutes and can be switched with a stroke of the keyboard or a button on any controller (midi/OSC) without clicks, hickups, whatever. Also dawmans automation tricks are set up much easier and quicker.

Mixbus is a really great sounding tool, but I often have problems with reloading my projects.
And I think my computer and mixbus setups are quite straightforward (MacOS 10.11 and MB 5).
I wouldn't rely on it live.
I trust in Ableton Lives stability (if the system is setup properly) so much, that I would use it for broadcasting Live-TV shows.
We actually don't use it for that purpose, cause there are simpler programs that do the things we need (start playback of a loop with faderstart).

I don't know how big dawmans shows are, but the fact that he could also control lights/visuals with it MIGHT be another interesting feature.

And an output compressing the signal when overdriven is pretty normal, I think... :D :D

Just a little example about changing FX on a track:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A_A8tdmhyU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWU7VIrzYlQ
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dawman
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by dawman » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:29 pm

I’m pretty much done with the traveling and bigger shows.
No more vocal fx, or lights, just me mixing my own fx and sounds.
CC Assignments for channels, need 3stereo AUXs and a 6db boost via CC on the master Fader.
Very simple needs.
Basically looking to use an RME or MOTU with a software mixer.
I might even be able to build my own in Bidule.
Still waiting for a reply there.
No hurry either, this will be a way to have a spare rig so I got plenty of time.

Thanks to all for helping,

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valis
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by valis » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:50 am

You can get RME Multifaces on Ebay for $200-300, the hard part is finding a PCIe connection interface (HDSPe) for less than $300 also. But many systems ship with PCI cards for the same price...

My BCF2000 in HUI or Mackie mode controls the Multiface mixer just fine.

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Janni
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by Janni » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:41 am

My BCF2000 in HUI or Mackie mode controls the Multiface mixer just fine.
Yes. That is exactly the first solution I pointed to.
Since he has already an A16Ultra, I would go for a PCI-E card with ADAT.
It's just one piece of gear less but a better and more stable system because the connection between the PCI card
and the multiface is a little fragile for a live rig.

The RayDat is one generation ahead and the complete mixer (even the graphics for the meters) is processed on the DSP.
That means really no CPU needed.

As far as I know the mixer of a multiface can not be controlled directly (standalone), without the totalmix software (no computer).
That feature is only available with the newer generation of USB/Thunderbolt interfaces.
But I'm really not certain about that...

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anz ... 09-74-6444

That card needs one PCI-E slot, the daughterboard is for additional I/Os and midi.
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valis
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by valis » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:50 am

Well, the interface CAN be booted by a computer and then run in 'disconnect' mode standalone with a separate power supply (12v IIRC). I have not tried seeing if it responds to HUI/Mackie modes from the front MIDI inputs but that's surely a question that the RME forums could answer.

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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by jksuperstar » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:01 am

Some of the MOTU interfaces' mixers supposedly operate under MIDI control in standalone mode.

dawman
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by dawman » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:33 pm

I’ve been talked into using Reaper which I already own, by an FOH Tthat showed me customize designed mixer, totally automated by MIDI CC#’s.
I can also load in Kontakt instruments, each using their own instance of Kontakt (spreads across Cores better) at the expense of a little extra RAM, but less CPU.
I tried it already by using Scope but replacing Bidule w/ Reaper.
Works perfectly, and you can use a custom theme, and custom built mixer in a project designed for real time performance.
I’ll use my decoupled modified ADA8200 and save the Scope Xbox/A16 Ultra.

Can re create the same projects since all of the Controller data resides in my Physis K4.

Just need the RME AIO.

CHEERZ

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at0m
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Re: Audio/MIDI Interface with Mixer

Post by at0m » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:24 pm

Yamaha 01V - the old ones are dirt cheap, all of them do take midi remote.
more has been done with less

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