Cakewalk keeps alive!

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Marco
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Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Marco » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:37 am

Gibson wanted to kill cakewalk because of that reason „…in order to align with the company’s acquisition strategy, focused on growth in the global consumer electronics audio business.“

I was not happy to see cakewalk dying but it keeps alive.

Gibson sold to this company http://cakewalk.bandlab.com/
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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Nestor » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:06 pm

Wow! Cool! :) They look like a bunch of very nice people in the first place! Good news for those who love it.
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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Marco » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:41 pm

:-? It would have been a big shame to take that great software to the graveyard without any real reason!
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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Sounddesigner » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:49 pm

Marco wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:41 pm
:-? It would have been a big shame to take that great software to the graveyard without any real reason!
I agree!! Cakewalk has a large user-base and it would be foolish to let all those customers go and send them elsewhere out in the cold. Cakewalk's Sonar may not be as big as Cubase, Protools, etc with regards to userbase size but it is still large and a major player still. Actually I think part of their problem is that they grew a relatively medium sized company with multiple coders, multiple phone tech support agents, sales agent, etc from past sales but DAWs are cheaper now and engineering costs are high while DAWs get cheaper and competition grows.. They are competing with smaller companies with less overhead to pay out. Cakewalk is paying a lot of employees but very little is done on the coding side each upgrade to Sonar while some other DAWs are getting huge meaningfull upgrades. Enormouse coding has to go into DAWs and less money is often made from sales so many companies like Cakewalk resort to frills-and-gimmicks (more plugins and sample-libraries instead of Core-DAW-Functionality). Bandlab may need to re-structure Cakewalk and make the company more leaner and efficient.

Thank you for posting this thread Marco! I was not aware of this Cakewalk revival. This is great news to me cause I use Sonar and wish to continue using it since I know it so well and really like some of its features and functionality. Hopefully the new owners of Cakewalk will focus on much needed development on core-engine-functionality like CPU efficiency and low-latency performance as well as better interface drivers compatibility. This new acquisition of Cakewalk is huge and great news for me and I'm glad the acquisition happened very quicky after the announcement of Cakewalks demise!

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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by valis » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:25 pm


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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by yayajohn » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:49 am

:) Well that's really great news.

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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Marco » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:36 am

This all happens because of a bad Management by the big fat company Gibson. So there is hope to get everything better under the right Management.

Gibson is a top seller in respect of guitars, but there seems to be a Problem with there Bad Management. And if there is something going wrong, you as a customer are the ass......

But now Let's go to a new Horizont and Let's see where we go tomorrow.
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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Sounddesigner » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:03 pm

According to the article you linked to the new owners Bandlabs only kept 2 developers and all other Cakewalk employees are gone. I'm sure just grabbing only 2 coders was a smart move, all other of the many employees would just be unnecessary pay overhead. I really do believe Cakewalk had way too many employees for the amount of profits they made. Cakewalk has been bought and sold multiple times and tho I don't know the reason for every sale I do know they have had known financial problems. The article you linked stated Gibson is having major financial debt problems wich leads me to believe that once again Cakewalk was not profitable cause if they were Gibson would not have discontinued them months ago and likely would not have sold them just now either. Big bloated companies can have troubles in this tricky situation the virtual-music-gear world has. Hopefully Bandlab will keep the whole operation small and streamlined until otherwise truly needed. Cakewalk did free phone tech-support with many agents handling this but nowadays most DAW companies only do email support including larger companies like Presonus, heck Avid may still do phone support for their DAW but they charge for it. I personally prefer phone support when I need support but I also know that that can be much costlier for multiple reasons. Most companies don't do phone support or they charge for it. Tech-support is a very costly side to business operations.

Cakewalk is proving to be a Phoenix like SCOPE platform, I'm glad to see both continue to survive and able to rise from the grave when needed.

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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by valis » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:02 pm

Gibson's issues go WELL beyond Cakewalk, and Cakewalk was hardly their biggest brand to maintain.

It should be clear that the entire DAW market is in a similar position: most companies from yesteryear have had to go under other ownership to survive; Gibson was NOT a great choice for that position of owner. Companies that are newer obviously would grow from a small number of employees up to whatever business model is (hopefully) sustainable today, but Cakewalk's issues are really no different than Steinberg (owned by Yamaha) or Emagic (owned by Apple) and so on. Of course Cakewalk has a smaller userbase...

However Gibson's issues with management are legendary, the CEO is rumored to rule by fear and had 27 executives quit over a span of time and report to social media the bipolar issues coming from above the glass ceiling were difficult to tolerate. They've also tanked many other brands that they brought into their ownership, by taking established technologies and .. doing nothing with them. Cakewalk at least was moving into the mobile arena, which is clearly why the new owners wanted their IP (they were about to debut a vst bridge for their mobile app, which Bandlabs lacks for instance). All you really need to do is look what happened to other brands under Gibson. For some reason, they went on a buying spree from 2011-2014 even though they had let half their employees go in 2009 to remain profitable! TEAC, Onkyo Corporation (Onkyo and Pioneer brands), Cerwin Vega and Stanton..all were at least well known brands, and in the last 5 years all have bled money and continue to remarket tech that came from before Gibson's ownership, with little new to show.

To top it off Gibson was raided not once, but TWICE by the federal government for violating rules importing wood from madagascar and India (if memory serves). While i can't say what the truth is in that case (they claimed they paid the fines because it was cheaper than fighting in court), it is clear that they were doing the same thing that many companies have done in their decline: buy intellectual property to maintain a failing business strategy. We've seen that before with companies like Creative Labs mining Emu & Ensoniq just for their IP to keep competitive in the consumer soundcard arena (and letting Emu & Ensoniq brands effectively die), and of course all the way back in 1990 when Gibson also bought Opcode for Studio Vision, and then killed it.

Not surprised they tanked honestly, and it was a long time coming. I too am happy to see Cakewalk continue in some form. Sonar had long ceased to interest me personally, but I once ran Cakewalk in the pre-Sonar days and they certainly played a role in this tapestry of music history that we're all participating in.

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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Nestor » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:32 pm

Thanks Valis, many things I didn't know that are cool to know about Gibson, interesting and surprising
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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Sounddesigner » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:44 am

@Valis. Yea, Gibson left a bad impression with me the short time I dealt with them. Gibson sold many of us Sonar users free lifetime upgrades for Sonar for onetime low price and then after only one year they closed Cakewalk's doors and discontinued Sonar. If they knew that they and Cakewalk was in bad shape financially why would they sell their users free lifetime upgrades when they knew it was too good of a chance they would not deliver? If it only took around one year for Gibson to put Cakewalk out of business then they knew they were not in good shape when they sold it to us and this makes me question their integrity. And now I'm reading that Gibson has had financial problems for many years now. When it comes to the lifetime upgrades I just think the whole thing was just some desparate and quick money grab at our expense. We should have gotten atleast 5 years or more in order for the lifetime upgrades to have been a seriouse and genuine offer. I know now i'll think twice before I buy free lifetime upgrades from any company again :lol: .

Many Cakewalk users was not happy when Gibson bought Cakewalk and we knew it was a good chance Gibson would run Cakewalk into the ground. But Gibson did all that they could to assure everyone they were seriouse about making Cakewalk successful and alive and telling us how much one of the main top Executives at Gibson loves and uses Sonar and they put Craig Andertone in charge who also loves and used Sonar. Well I guess they didn't care that much since Cakewalk was dead shortly after. One could argue that if Gibson was having financial problems they never should have bought Cakewalk to begin with cause buying it under those conditions suggest some sort of vulture-like disingenuous business-model.

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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by ronnie » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:20 am

https://cakewalk.bandlab.com/

Officially Resurrected!
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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Sounddesigner » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:18 pm

ronnie wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:20 am
https://cakewalk.bandlab.com/

Officially Resurrected!
I'm glad to read that they plan to have very aggressive development for Sonar/Cakewalk and will pursue innovation for it (not frills and gimmicks, or very little of this hopefully). I suspect they might bring some sort of over-the-internet project collaboration inside Sonar (now called Cakewalk I think) for its users woeking together. Cloud collaboration seems to be what they already do. My only concern is that they gave Sonar away for free to all their Bandlab users, treating it like freeware and without proper cashflow development can be ultimately slowed or stopped. Giving the current version of Sonar away for free like that may ultimately devalue the product. My eyes are on them and I hope things turn out well, we'll see.

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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Sounddesigner » Thu May 03, 2018 3:21 am

Gibson just filed Chapter 11 Bankruptcy and are over $100-Million in debt. It's obvious they have and had serious problems and never should have bought Cakewalk.

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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by valis » Mon May 07, 2018 7:07 am


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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Nestor » Mon May 07, 2018 11:14 am

How can a firm this size get in such problems? I'm probably wrong and judgemental, but I think they have always been way too powerful fo such a simple mistake... :roll: I don't know...
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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Sounddesigner » Tue May 08, 2018 12:57 pm

valis wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 7:07 am
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/05 ... rotection/

Agree with you completely.
That article says Gibson will liquidate all its Consumer-Electronics companies and basicly go back to just focusing on Guitars, this might be best for them. If Gibson don't have a successfull business-model for their own core business how can they truly save other companies they buy? If one is drowning how can that person save someoneelse who is drowning as well? Gibson was not able to pour the necessary resources into Cakewalk, etc to make them a innovative and successful company and don't fully understand the Audio-world wich is rough-and-tuff. I wonder about the future of Tascam, Cerwin Vega, etc who are all owned by Gibson and are about to be sold. I really like my Cerwin Vega monitor and really hope for a bright future for all subsidiaries being sold.

According to that article Gibson's financial problems started way back in the 1980's when their guitar sales began slowing down, I guess they started diversifying after that. In order to have success with another purchased company you have to really be about the new products and understand what the new acquisition truly needs and ready to make heavy investment in it. You have to treat the new products like your core products not like some pseudo-lifesaver and red-herring for your Share-Holders. I think large companies like Gibson buy these smaller companies just to keep Share-holders happy (temporarily) in their desparate attempt to sustain a failing business-model. Unfortunitely us the consumers of those acquisitions are hurt by this vulture practice. Ultimately I wish Gibson well, I just hope they truly get themselves together BEFORE they go and buy other companies.
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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by yayajohn » Tue May 08, 2018 3:54 pm

The problem with companies like this is the corporate weenies eventually make it ALL about the money. They have no vested interest in the products they sell. It's fine when you have a trusted name brand product that you can pull off the shelf and you are pretty much guaranteed a certain level of quality but In this day and age we are seeing a lot of startup companies in the music electronics division. Why would a young talented electronics engineer go work for a huge company only to be told what to make, when to make it and....oh you don't get any of the credit and just your regular salary if it becomes a hit. (oh well we might have a promotion for you down the line if we can afford it)
Better for that young man/woman to start their own company and reap all of the benefits of ownership.
Lots of high quality affordable electronic gear emerging these days and I think that is making these big companies like this not do so well.
Then there's Behringer with their Blue Plate Specials wielding the mighty wand of mass production and cheap labor to undercut the puny uprising and crush the revolution of the small start-up once and for all. :D :D :D

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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by haba » Wed May 09, 2018 3:02 am

I think the guitar market is generally down. Way to much guitars arround. The kids, if they buy new, they buy cheap/Asia and most of the over 40 buy vintage/used. I have Fenders and Gibsons arround, but not because I think that they are better guitars. They were played by my heroes, and from time to time I want to have that sound, thats the main reason.
The guitars that fits me the best are two cheapos from Samick (Strat and Warlock)..:-)

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Re: Cakewalk keeps alive!

Post by Nestor » Sat May 12, 2018 4:55 am

I have a Samick myself and it is an amazing detailed construction guitar, it sounds and plays great, too. I have paid it less than 5% of what a used Fender or Gibson would cost. It makes no sense… not anymore.

The brand mind focus is changing today, and for good reasons I think. There are many proficient builders out there in most countries: Italy, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, Chile, Argentina, Peru, France, Purto Rico, Ecuador, Brazil, etc., etc., you name them… and many more in the established as “best” countries or “traditional” countries for great instruments like: Germany, USA, England and Japan. Their instruments are, to my taste, much better than those made by Gibson and Fender today, except for a very few modes that would be at the same status anyway, but sooooooo expensive, that they are not worth the price.

As an example, lets talk about Mayones:
http://mayones.com/

Their instruments are out of this world… There are more than 300 other amazing small builders that stand out of the crowd, overwhelmingly good. And don’t forget about the luthiers all around the glove that today have access to ALL of the information, strategies and materials, to build impressive guitars and bases, like the one I used myself in my last album an amazing 5 string bass that would compete very well with the best Fender bass you could handle me.

I see it over and over again, people do not want to accept there are big changes in the paradigms of the industry coming up to the surface. I guess this is Gibson's problem, it is a psychological problem.
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