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 Post subject: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:20 am 
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Essentially equals about the same price.

Any other analog polysynth contenders around 2 grand? (8+ voices)


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:11 am 
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2 deepmind ? Why not 1 deepmind and 1 another 1200$ synth ??

You've got plenty of choice !
https://www.thomann.de/gb/search.html?s ... -last=1500

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:37 am 
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I forgot to say : lucky you, Dan ! :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:35 am 
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Deep mind + Moog Minotaur + $$ to spare.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 5:47 am 
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JoPo wrote:
I forgot to say : lucky you, Dan ! :)


Well to be honest.....10yrs of company AMEX points!

Thanks guys keep em coming please.

I'm sort of stuck on the DSI Rev2 in part because of this.

https://soundcloud.com/davesmithinstrum ... ound-demos

Some of these sounds make the hair on the back of my neck stand up :D

sucks that I can't try one out. :-?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 11:26 am 
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Buy both and be happy :)


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 1:45 pm 
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:D :D :D

all in good time my friend


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 4:59 pm 
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yayajohn wrote:
I'm sort of stuck on the DSI Rev2 in part because of this.

https://soundcloud.com/davesmithinstrum ... ound-demos

Some of these sounds make the hair on the back of my neck stand up :D

sucks that I can't try one out. :-?


That´s just only demos in the web.
The DSI REV2 is a "synth-on-a-chip" like the Oberheim Matrix-1000 was.
In fact it´s exactly the same Curtis CEM chip, each containing 1 complete voice,- the remake made by Curtis OnChip and exclusively for DSI.
It´s about $15 when buying a single item (what you can´t as a end-user though) and there are 16 inside to make a cheapo 16-voice poly analog.
I doubt it sounds better than SCOPE synths since it´s the same filter type you already found in the Prophet08 and modifiers being all software.

You might imagine the DSI Prophet-6 and OB-6, which are 6-voice poly "only", have significant higher prices by a reason !
The reason is, there´s some discrete circuitry inside,- but they still don´t sound like the vintage synths ´cause the detune and drift behaves more like a DCO synth (SE-1 or such),- it´s a bit too accurate like it is w/ most modern hardware synths.

The DM12 is a good small synth, but there´s much more to come from MusicGroup/Behringer relatively soon,- much sooner than SCOPE 6 or 7 ... :D

So I´d wait a bit before wasting money NOW.

:)

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:33 am 
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Hi bud, I think this is a good point. When do you think you have a really analog synthesizer? Most time it is analog when the filter is analog. Is this enough? So I could buy waldorfs 4 pole and connect to a mono synthesizer out of scope into the Waldorf and back. After this cosmetic tour I have the right to say, I changed a digital modeling synthesizer into an analog? Or what I did, was, I have the akai wolf, it has an voltage controlled oscillator and an analog filter, it sounds really fat, but there other functions like filter and amp envelopes are very handicapped. I have built in Modular an amp and filter envelope and a modulation section. After this I had really a lot more possibilities and sounds from hell.
The combination of analog parts and digital are a reason of cost. I must say,, the more digital the less roughness. The akai wolf Is a killer compared to the korg minilogue. But the korg minilogue hat millions of charming sounds I love. But it is never rough like that akai wolf. You can tame its rough with the scope Modular and at the end you can use a crazy multi effect device like dNa-Effect killer presets, makes the Wolf going fair into a Forrest and barking out of hell. Yes this combination is very cool.

When do we really talk about an analog synthesizer? How many of the parts are necessary to replace until you have the right to say, MySynth is an analog baby?

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:29 am 
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Hi Bud; thanks for chiming in. Useful information I hadn't heard before this to consider now.
I love my Xite and esp the latest synths from Ocean Swift but I'm pretty sure that I want a hardware polysynth based on how and what I usually play. I have always wanted an Oberheim ever since I played one in the store when I was a teenager. Love the sounds on the DSI OB-6 but it's the 6 voices that makes me hesitate on that.
hmm well lots to consider and I prob will just wait until I can at least demo something. Blasted Guitar Center has nothing but crap!
Will keep an eye on Behringer for sure!

@Marco; thanks for your input but I'm not really looking to debate the definition of analogue. I really don't care what's under the hood. Screw the specs, Bottom line is what does it sound like, does it have an on/off button with predefined charateristics and most importantly does it have enough voices. 8 is min for me which is why I'm only focusing on the DM12 and Rev2. There are others like Solaris but the price goes up significantly.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:47 pm 
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yayajohn wrote:
...
I'm pretty sure that I want a hardware polysynth based on how and what I usually play. I have always wanted an Oberheim ever since I played one in the store when I was a teenager. Love the sounds on the DSI OB-6 but it's the 6 voices that makes me hesitate on that.


Hardware synth lover here.
I used all kind of hardware synths in studios and live from about mid 70s ´til today.
I also made some mistakes when selling that kind of gear for cheap just only because digital became more popular and stuff running on computers appeared.

The old analogues sounded great, but there´s also the other side of the coin which is age.

Now you mention the OB-6, w/ 6 voices only.
I´d say, 6 voices are o.k. when playing only one patch at a time using one hand for the keys and the other for the wheels etc.,- my Oberheim Xpander doesn´t offer more polyphony and my Prophet 5 had just only 5 voices.
Only my OB-8 offered 8 voices and all my other analog synths were monophonic.

In fact the reason I didn´t buy a OB-6, even it´s state variable filter is unique (!), is it´s limitation in modulations.
It is more or less rudimentary as the OBX was and that´s not what I want from a synthesizer.

A synthesizer is a machine for soundcreation which hopefully offers playability for a more skilled musician too, not only for the one-finger-trigger guys.
The more soundshaping features, the better it is,- functionality wise.
When it´s basic tone sounds most excellent in addition, that´s better, but it´s not essential because it doesn´t make a hit and for sure most usage will be in the background of a playback and rarely in the foreground except the music is just only pure synths and also there, there´s not everything in the foreground.

But I´d never buy anything just only because it´s analog. It´s pure hype.
Choose your tools carefully and tame the G.A.S.,- it will save big money for other investments being usefull not only for your music or,- ALSO for your music.

Actually we don´t see any new affordable analog polysynth in the market which p.ex. comes w/ the complexity of the Oberheim Xpander or Matrix-12.
Even when Behringer will come w/ the recreation of the OB-Xa it will not be the same.

The manufacturers actually see a renaissance of the analog technology,- in fact they didn´t expect it will come back that way.
They test the market and it happens the same as it was in the past,- there come new models now, the 1st has 1 LFO, the next one 2 and so on,- now the features come bit by bit.
Dont´t make the mistake buying toys because they are out now, there will come flagships,- they always came.

We´re also talking polysynths and there´s often the argument most of the old "chipsynths" didn´t sound that fat as p.ex. the (discrete circuitry) OBX or the Memorymoog which was still a "chipsynth" but sounded differentw/ 3 OSCs per voice,- but hell, when recording, what did they try to do in studios to make these sounds more thin not occupying all the frequency spectrum and also not losing quality because of processing.

It was and still is all about what it is in the mix and not when doing A-B comparisons.
Also have in mind what you hear from old gear in old recordings is not only the instrument, it´s a lot of outboard processing too, it always was in the past and last but not least it´s also the performance of the player.
Some guys make simple, probably mediocre, sounds shine,- others ruin everything regardless of quality of gear.

yayajohn wrote:

hmm well lots to consider and I prob will just wait until I can at least demo something. Blasted Guitar Center has nothing but crap!
Will keep an eye on Behringer for sure!


I understand very well you want some hardware analog synth and haptics,- it´s great and I like it too.
But you have to check it out in depth before pulling a trigger,- impulse purchases are definitely not the way to go.
Youtube videos are not the truth.
There´s also the chance finding some hybrid synth sounding and serving better than a not so good pure analog device.

There was the time when analog was "meh" ...
Now it´s the time VA is "meh ...

Doesn´t mean it´s 100% true,- a Virus TI2 is a great synth IMO and I also like my KURZ PC361 since I dived deeper into it´s half modular VAST VA.
Do they sound exactly like a Minimoog D, Jupiter-8 or Oberheim,- no,- but who cares when the result is done right and sells ?

yayajohn wrote:
... does it have enough voices. 8 is min for me which is why I'm only focusing on the DM12 and Rev2. There are others like Solaris but the price goes up significantly.


REV2 and DM12 are different designs and hard to compare.
I was never a Roland Juno fan, so I´d decide for the REV2, but w/ 16 voices which makes it more expensive.

8 voices is also better than 6 and Solaris is also a better synth w/ 10 voices even it´s NOT analog.
But there´s the budget.

My experiences from the past w/ small but more affordable synths was always the same,- it didn´t need long and I was bored or unhappy w/ the limitations, so I wanted the next one.

I´d wait for something upcoming 12 voice, dual OSC, w/ dual layer and split features, a pitch envelope in addition to filter and amp envelope and at least 4 freerun and freely routable LFOs for about 3K EUR,- it will come IMO.

:)

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Marco wrote:
When do you think you have a really analog synthesizer?


Analog signal path from freerun OSCs over analog mixing stage adding saturation, analog filter and one analog dual VCA (the one before output !).
Freerun analog LFOs and analog (logaritmic) ENVs are ice on the cake.
Depending on today´s DSP hosepower, LFOs and some additional ENVs, ramp generators as also amplifiers can be digital as long the processor´s update time isn´t too lame.

Marco wrote:
Most time it is analog when the filter is analog. Is this enough?


Good question,- who decides ?
Because you´re speaking german:

"Kalbsleberwurst" is still "Kalbsleberwurst", even there´s no "Kalbsleber" inside.

Same rules for "Analogsynthesizer",- throw in a filterchip and do the marketing.

Marco wrote:
So I could buy waldorfs 4 pole and connect to a mono synthesizer out of scope into the Waldorf and back. After this cosmetic tour I have the right to say, I changed a digital modeling synthesizer into an analog?


For sure you have the right,- but I´m pretty sure you know exactly it´s not the same.

Marco wrote:
Or what I did, was, I have the akai wolf, it has an voltage controlled oscillator and an analog filter, it sounds really fat, but there other functions like filter and amp envelopes are very handicapped. I have built in Modular an amp and filter envelope and a modulation section. After this I had really a lot more possibilities and sounds from hell.


I think you´re doing it right, working w/ what you have and using it´s limitations creatively.
When the result is pleasing your ear, what do you want more ?

Marco wrote:
The combination of analog parts and digital are a reason of cost.


Not only, stability is a factor too.

:)

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 1:32 pm 
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I am the type of easy operation man, means always the same experience, I personally always loved the simple sound system. The reason is that I am a playing musician, I play piano and a synthesizer sounds crazy, because a good piano player needs feeling on an acoustic piano, yes I have a 1937 blüthner 280 Grand in mint condition the real piano Hass 88 strings, the akai. has only on voice. Eg I have a akai wolf and it is very simple but I love it, and I like theses few sounds no other synthesizer can produce. But it's sound is not everybody's darling, you must be a Musican to hear it's quality. As a piano player you have tons of tricks and skills to treat your synthesizer right. I heard so many awful demos without inspiration. I guess the akai and me, we got better friends now. And the scope Modular ext! We are different, it makes this synth to a complex sound system. And the best is, I have a siel dk 80 connection to the scope Modular, same device, works too! You could connect a dw8000, a poly 800, cruma a bit99
I have a sledge from waldorf, in standalone sound, it is not really exciting, but in the mix this synth is awesome as hell.
If you are searching for a poly synth, take your favorite for a few weeks home and spend a lot of time to find the right. No need to talk long, you are a personal musician with individual wishes , noone can help you. You are to individual. When I hate it othes love it different, it's like choosing a girlfriend.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Words of wisdom from the sagemaster!

Thanks Bud. you are probably right that I should wait esp since i'm not one prone to selling used gear so this will be a biggy in the life of my studio. At any rate I guess it would be insane to buy without trying one out.
Time to plan a road trip to a reputable store that stocks synths.

Thanks for the advice

Dan


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:39 am 
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Just checked out those soundcloud demos of the Prophet and while there was nothing that you couldn't achieve with the Scope Prophet version, if you've got the funds to get it, I sure would buy that one. I wouldn't wait forever either. It sounds like that and it has knobs (not your mouse). Go for it. Lucky guy!


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Well against my better judgement I bought a DSI Rev2 without trying one out first. Ordered it back in June and it arrived on my doorstep yesterday. Pretty happy with it so far. Made it thru a few presets and then started messing with the knobs. After all that's the reason you buy hardware right? :lol:
This will be an exciting journey.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:32 pm 
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Congrats.
I'm sure you'll get great fat sounds from it..

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:37 pm 
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yayajohn wrote:

... messing with the knobs. After all that's the reason you buy hardware right? :lol:


NO !

Bud


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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:40 am 
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Congrats on your REV2, I am sure you will enjoy it :)

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 Post subject: Re: 2 Deepmind12's or DSI Rev2
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Bud Weiser wrote:
yayajohn wrote:

... messing with the knobs. After all that's the reason you buy hardware right? :lol:


NO !

Bud


:D ah Bud I can just picture you reaching your arm through the computer and smacking me in the back of my head LOL!

The keybed has a really nice feel to it and i'm going to see how coordinated I am with an expression pedal hooked up.


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