New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

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dante
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Tue May 09, 2017 2:13 pm

anabella wrote:I guess the 96 kHz is totally overrated
In what sense ? If you can hear the benefit over a period of many projects and you have the system power, why wouldn't you use it ?

Of course, with VST support coming to Reason I might need more power but to me that might be a case for bringing forward the acquisition of a 6 core CPU - rather than downgrading the sample rate.

Since unable to use Dynatube I use Vermillion RE instead. Sound wise its as good quality as Dyntatube, it just doesn't reproduce the Marshall sound like Dynatube - which is what I miss - however Vermillion fills the brief otherwise.
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Tue May 09, 2017 7:29 pm

I know that technically 96 kHz must be better, but there is no really big difference, so I think that the biggest difference makes your or anybodys personal music and mixing skills. The price for 96 kHz is to much for me. And therefore mp3 users nowadays with there little headphones on the street walking, do they interest in your golden 96 kHz? They want your music and nothing else matters.
But yes you are right, you are on the save side to say 96 kHz can not be wrong. There are 192 kHz and maybe 394 kHz for creating microwave heaters to grill you ears. These marketing strategies are really important to show what is happening with your Portemonnaie. And downgraded 96 kHz to CD 44khz 16 bit....

I only trust my ears and soul and concentrate on the object and that's only the pure music.

What I say isn't the real truth, it is only my personal strategy, and not God's end truth.
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Tue May 09, 2017 9:08 pm

Sure. I think the difference from me is in the mixing / mastering processes working at a higher resolution. Potentially it can reduce phase issues because something out of phase by 8 milliseconds at 48khz will only be out of phase by 4 milliseconds at 96khz. Anyway the zero and one scientists might nullify me on this one :))))

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Wed May 10, 2017 2:31 am

What is this Vermillion amp? Is this a VST Plugins? Now I have heard some demos on YouTube. All these simulations sound good when anybody else plays them, but when you try them by yourself, then you notice very fast how limited theses simulations are, and you go and return to your good old tube amp. Only the Creamware guitar and the bassamp are good ones. They are not very flexible, but the little what they can is really very very good.
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Wed May 10, 2017 12:29 pm

Vermillion is a Reason Rack Extension. It sounds great when I feed it with tracks that have been recorded through my Digitech Valve FX (tube) guitar pre-amp but not as good when fed a clean Direct Inject strat sound for example.

So in real world if you wanted a distorted lead you would plug your guitar into a Boss distortion then into your amp/cab.

So if you follow that logic in the virtual world you should get some good sounds. EG don't rely on a virtual amp to do both your preamplification overdrive stage and your cab sound - I find that doesn't work so well. But then again there are probably people who may have gotten it to work.

The guitar solo in the middle 8 of 'Hate Rock And Roll' for example is a mix of DI and the guitarist's amp mic'ed with an Shure SM58. But the other Rhythm guitar lines are though the Digitech / DynaTube Marshall combo.

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Wed May 10, 2017 1:55 pm

I grew up with tube Amps and some people believe, the first thing I held in my hand was a shure sm58 and on the other hand I held a fly swatter up side down in my arms. No, what really want to say is, that I do this for 30 years now, when I heard the first NI guitar rig and other similar stuff, there was always the same feelings : none. In the mix you have some possibilities to hide the plastic sound of a simulation, but play it single guitar you will hate it.

But the biggest problem is that you are so extremely limited with these simulations, I mean dynamic and creating crazy overtones to make your own personal guitar sound. Playing expressive!

This is my personal experience, and not the Last truth, only for myself. No problem if other go different ways.
Last edited by Marco on Wed May 10, 2017 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Wed May 10, 2017 1:57 pm

Shure. But have you tried it NI Rig or Dynatube with a valve distortion preamp first in series ?
Last edited by dante on Wed May 10, 2017 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Wed May 10, 2017 1:58 pm

No I didn't. I will do that.
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Wed May 10, 2017 1:59 pm

Yeah check it out

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Wed May 10, 2017 2:03 pm

I think you could enhance the sound by routing the output of the Creamware amp directly out to a guitar power amp and a Marshall cabinet and a microphone. But at the end I ask myself for what should I do? I have a guitar tube preamp for the guitar guarantee the sound I ever had and ever loved.
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Wed May 10, 2017 2:05 pm

I try with the distortion in the front to get more sounds. And yes there is the Mojo amp, I haven't tried yet. :D
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Wed May 10, 2017 6:22 pm

Well yeah - micing an real amp/cab combo is the best option - but I dont have one, nor the permission to use one in bedroom studio :D

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Wed May 10, 2017 7:10 pm

Okay a lot of people have this bedroom studio problem. Where do you record your vocals? I think this is a very loud recording situation. I am a freak and moved to a very silent place in Germany Odenwald surrounded with nice mountains and no neighbors in our own house. I could record drums at midnight and disturbing only the mice in the basement :D
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Wed May 10, 2017 11:12 pm

I did a big test in parallel mode, 3 Amps for Scope tested. All are really good, but the Creamware stuff was pretty cooler than Mojo. But at the end of the story, all lack with the cabinet simulation. Reminds me to my electric shaver sounds early in the morning.

You can avoid this by connecting to a real amp and a microphone.
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Thu May 11, 2017 11:57 am

:D
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Thu May 11, 2017 1:51 pm

anabella wrote:Where do you record your vocals? D
In the bedroom studio when no-one else is in the house :lol:

Ill take the terminator skull - on condition in bobs up and down in time with 'The Immigrant Song' like in Jack Blacks van in School of Rock. 8)

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Thu May 11, 2017 6:20 pm

Hahaha hahaha when noone else is in the house, I think that is important to know, otherwise they call the police..... :o
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Nestor » Fri May 12, 2017 2:57 pm

I am pretty pleased with the sounds I get for pretty much everything I do with a guitar, except for some very, super heavy sounds that are very difficult to achieve if you don’t have the proper hardware amps for it. Well, at least me, I have never achieved a really good heavy sound that would please me totally through virtual means. They are ok true, very usable, but not perfect.

My sound with guitar leads are built in the following order:

First in the chain, a Joemeek hardware preamp which I really like, it is a very good starting point for punch, body and clarity.

Second, I get into Pulsar and plug it into Adern Mojo, really great sounding stuff!

Third step, I get into one of the many VA VST plugins, which by now are quite a few in my DAW, they all have their own meaning and moment to be used, depending on the material to be recorded, some are old 32 bit and some are pretty recent 64 bit stuff. Some of them are better for crunchy sounds, some are softer than others, others are very rocky biased sounding, etc., and it all depends on what you need. It is nice to mention there are quite a few very good ones that are free and sound as good as any of the best in the market.

Fourth, I would mix the very same take, one track being slightly processed panned to the center in a mono track, along with a heavily processed one, so I make it sound like one track, no two tracks, unless you want sort of a chorus like effect onto it. Working like this the possibilities are endless in terms of sound sculpting and I am very happy, very pleased of what I can do with my modest, small studio.

Finally, I would add one of the extraordinary compressors I have today, then almost always I will go with a little bit of delay, very carefully measured for the occasion, and, of course, a slice of reverb to finish a delicious sounding sandwich.
This is almost always the same for me when recording leads in a guitar, regardless of the kind of music I have to record.

If I need a second guitar for chords or a clean guitar, or a blussy one, I get the line directly from Joemeek and then pass it through Celmo’s GAM or BAM, (both are very good for guitar), and then I process it as needed with VST plugins.
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Fri May 12, 2017 3:19 pm

All good stuff. I am now sitting on 499 tracks on the big restoration project. Once I get to 500 I might take the pedal off the gas and do a couple more one-off Scoperisd articles- the next one being how to get great guitar sounds on DAW.

I think there are 3 important stages - pre-amp => amp => cab. Real hardware on pre-amp and followed by virtual plugs for amp and cab seem to be the way to go ! I wonder if MOJO works @ 96khz - might be worth exploring ....

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Sounddesigner » Fri May 12, 2017 4:16 pm

dante wrote: I wonder if MOJO works @ 96khz - might be worth exploring ....
Yes MOJO works at 96khz. Adern released a 96khz update to allow for it.

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