New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

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dante
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New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Sat May 06, 2017 8:41 pm

http://www.hitfoundry.com/reason/

Due to embarking on an all consuming great restoration project in Jan 2015, there have been no ScopeRise articles since 2015. However, I decided to do this small piece on using Reason with Scope since that is the combo I've been using since Jan 2015 - effectively eliminating Cubase.

I intend to also plug this on ReasonTalk as I think most there are unaware of Scope.

I'm pleased to say everything I've ever recorded since 1980 has now been fully restored (@96Khz) over the last 28 months, totalling 496 tracks - well I still have 4 to go to crack 500 !

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garyb
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by garyb » Sat May 06, 2017 8:45 pm

:)

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dawman » Sat May 06, 2017 9:53 pm

Double :D :wink:

I need to check it out.
I really hate these DAWs that keep growing to please the angry Avatars...

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by garyb » Sat May 06, 2017 11:50 pm

:) :) :)

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Bud Weiser
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Bud Weiser » Sun May 07, 2017 3:22 pm

Interesting read, great article !

:)

Bud

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dawman » Mon May 08, 2017 2:54 am

My beef with all software mixers is they don't allow the Audio from an AUX where one might use Effects, to be routed to a Bus.
Nor do you get channels to use multiple Bus assignments, that could be pre or post AUX.

This makes customized mixes for monitors or IEMs.
As a work around I just put a TC Fireworx on each vocalist.
Vocalists need to hear their vocal FX for timing Ducked Delays, etc.

I'm not knocking those who attempt to emulate the hardware, as most software users don't seek 4 x separate monitor mixes. But SSL is a flexible mixer, like Scope. Much much better than RMEs weak Total Mix, or UAD Console 2 that's promises eventually will support technology from 1984 called MIDI.

My mates get vocals with FX only and vented IEMs that allow enough stage volume to make their performance enjoyable.
Even then a pair of QSC K8/10/12 powered cabinets set up like wedges is also preferred.
It's the best I can do.

You really need a console that costs thousands of dollars.

I'd actually pay thousands for a mixer in Scope that had these features.

1) Channel with insert pre AUX > AUX 1/4 > Button for Master on/off, plus bus buttons 1/2 3/4 5/6 7/8. (4 buttons).
2) 4 x stereo Bus sliders w/ post insert for filter/eq/ comp
3) master volume with post insert.

4) 4 x stereo aux sections, trim, eq, pre insert, slider, post insert.

5) 12 x stereo channels 12 x mono channels

1,000 USD R & D money in advance.

I don't play around.
Quit school in 4th grade because they had recess.

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Mon May 08, 2017 3:03 am

Hallo Dante, where can I listen to your tracks? Music! :D

I loved to read your story!
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dawman » Mon May 08, 2017 3:24 am

I do like reason 9.5 though.
Can't wait to hear more from beta testers.

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Bud Weiser
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Bud Weiser » Mon May 08, 2017 8:22 am

dawman wrote:My beef with all software mixers is they don't allow the Audio from an AUX where one might use Effects, to be routed to a Bus.
Nor do you get channels to use multiple Bus assignments, that could be pre or post AUX.
What about Reaper w/ it´s sends and receives per channel ?
No chance ?
I always had the impression, Cockos gave up on terms like "group" or "bus" and leaved the configuration to the user.

I myself I only evaluated Reaper from time to time, so didn´t dig in too deep.
It always worked great for me as a VST(i) host though

Bud

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dawman » Mon May 08, 2017 9:59 am

Yeah it's a decent mixer but pretty much like all software mixers.
I have plenty of CPU to use it but I tried using groups with routed in hardware and phase was so bad I bailed.
It's incapable of real time but for recording very good routing.

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Mon May 08, 2017 12:59 pm

anabella wrote:Hallo Dante, where can I listen to your tracks? Music! :D I loved to read your story!
@Anabella, thanks for you interest. A lot of it is here : https://soundcloud.com/hitfoundry - the ones done using the setup described in the article have 96Khz in the comments. Instrumentally try https://soundcloud.com/hitfoundry/x-atron

@Dawman - your correct - my accolades about Reason SSL are based on my home use, not a live situation. Whacking down a grand might get som analysis done, but whats your total budget ? At the simpler end of the spectrum $1K might do it but as I remember correctly, you've already gone down that track.

So lets assume a more complex and wider development pipeline. On the more complex end of the spectrum - say something that had all your routing requirements, run at least 48 channels @ 96Khz (I know your a 96 junkie like me) and consumed say at least half of XITE-1 DSP resources - you might have a project with the following phases:

1) Analysis - discuss with developers exactly what you want so there is an agreed schematic
2) Design - this is where the development team come up with a design of the DSP workloads and some GUI sketches - all aligned.
3) Build - this is the actual coding.
4) User Acceptance Test - you take it into the field, sleazy Vegas gigs and all, and report back any bugs, design issues.
5) Go Live - this could include creating an XITE-1 / DAWmanMIX package to go to market to try to recoup investment.

Now, the project could fail at any of the 5 stages above - money gone. I would think with a grand you might be able to pay for stage 1).

Having said all this - with a budget of at least $100,000 - my dream team would be as follows:

1) GaryB - Chairman of the steering committee. Probably the only one that could control the ego's involved.
2) Holger - Technical Team Leader and Business Consultant.
3) DawMan - User Requirements and Head Sponsor.
4) Eric - Developer - realistically the only one (other than Holger) familiar enough with the issues related to Phase correlation across DSP spanning. Hark back to those heated discussions on XITED for a taste of this. Lets also assume such phasing cannot be written off as 'artistic' - especially if this thing goes to market, which I believe it should (a Harrison on steroids).
5) Ray - Developer - could do UI and related DSP coding.

At the design phase, it might even be determined that what you want is not possible on DSP and would be better done natively. For that you'd probably need a totally different team, so better to make that determination at Phase 1). By which time your first $K is likely gone...!

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Mon May 08, 2017 3:07 pm

Wow YOU are a rock man! I like that! Very good!
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dante
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Mon May 08, 2017 3:12 pm

Thanks. U got any soundcloud ? I'll take a listen

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Mon May 08, 2017 3:44 pm

In SoundCloud just type the name Marco Heger inside and you will find some music.
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dawman » Mon May 08, 2017 5:09 pm

Dantes been killing Rock since diaper days.

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Mon May 08, 2017 5:38 pm

anabella wrote:In SoundCloud just type the name Marco Heger inside and you will find some music.
That Korg Minilogue sounds Ive been looking for quite a while, since early recordings were made on a Korg Delta but no decent emulation of that is available. ASTROSONIC, TITAN2 track and Time Machine I like... You have the Minilogue and Titan real or VST ?

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Mon May 08, 2017 7:42 pm

Yes I have a korg minilogue, and this synth is incredibly good! Years ago I had a siel opera 6, I was so stupid to give it away. It was not easy to find a substitute, but the korg can.

But BTW, have you ever tried Creamwares guitar amp and Bass simulation? Yesterday was the day, Creamware programmers saved my day! These simulations are incredible! I have several Amps and real cabinets picked up with the microphone. It would certainly not be fair to compare the sound, but the simulation has its own flavor. The best simulation I have ever heard!

We both know what a good guitar sound is, but all simulations sucked until yesterday!

I also produce metal music not on SoundCloud aviable.

Hate Rockn Roll is my favorite song! Of your songs on SoundCloud
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dante
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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Mon May 08, 2017 9:30 pm

Haha yes 'Hate Rock and Roll' the guitars on there were recorded with the Softtube Marshall except the solo which was done by a real guitarist who has no need of Sim anything. I did do Scoperise articles on all the Softube amps. Unfortunately I can't use em now coz they don't run at 96khz. :-?

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by dante » Mon May 08, 2017 9:58 pm

@Dawman - what would a real mixer that did everything you want cost and how big would it be ? Weight and size ?

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Re: New ScopeRise Article - Reason and Scope

Post by Marco » Tue May 09, 2017 12:49 pm

I guess the 96 kHz is totally overrated, it is much more important to be a good sound engineer before using 96 kHz that kills 50 percent of all the calculation power of all your digital equipment. And yes 96 kHz will not substitute any real tube amp. But I was very amazed about the guitar sound of the Creamware amp, it is much better than NI s guitar rig with its great effect section but the guitar simulation is not really good. Any real guitar amp + a microphone makes a better sound than any of all these simulations. But the Creamware amp is amazing in this discipline.
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