Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

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ronnie
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Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by ronnie »

Yeah, I love the IK iGrand Piano for Android and iPad. It sounds unbelievable considering it's runs on a phone! Driving it through a IK Pro-Keys USB 37 is a neat little setup for practicing, composing just about anywhere. But the iGrand Piano is a battery hog and heats up the CPU, even a Quad-Core Snapdragon. The cabling is strangulating: USB from keys to phone, headphones from phone to ears (Bluetooth is a no go because you get MIDI latency, not to mention further battery drain). And then you get a call or text or need to do that yourself. Hassle. A phone should be, well a phone. You want games. You wanna surf. You wanna find cheap gas or get to where you're going. Listen to music. Fine. No cords or cables, no heat, more battery.

Then I found this from MidiPlus:

Image

$39.95 on Ebay. From China. $78.50 on Amazon with same day shipping. Or, you could buy the "Official" version: from MidiTech DE

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for $199.00.

First lemme say that MidiPlus products from China are the exact same item as the MidiTech products from "Germany". MidiPlus is the manufacturer. MidiTech products are generally sexy black while the MidiPlus products are some other color like blue or grey or white. So.... at $39.95 vs. $199.00 it's truly apples and apples, except for the anodized color. That's my experience with MidiPlus. Solid quality at a fraction of the cost of the SAME item from MidiTech.

So WTF is it? It's a 128 preset GM module (sounds like 8 or 12 bit with 16bit 48Khz circuit) playing all those mostly cheesy XG and SoundCanvas patches, most of which suck but some of which are very usable for sketching stuff out or just plain practicing without a phone, computer or bulky keyboard. Combined with a small keyboard, like the iRig Prokeys USB 37, you can go anywhere. It's self powered by a rechargeable internal battery, that will power a USB keyboard (or charge your phone - heck, it's as cheap as a standalone phone battery and has a class compliant USB interface AND a straight MIDI DIN connector to a 128 preset 64 voice synthesizer as a bonus). Plug in headphones (or even into your system) and work stuff out.

The thing responds to pitch wheel, MW, pedal, program change, volume, etc so you don't even have to touch it, which BTW is about the size of a deck of cards.

How does it sound? Basically as good (or as bad) as the time-worn SoundBlaster GM stuff that we thought was great way back when. And for what it is, your most basic Bread and Butter sounds are there. Nothing fancy. You'll have to tweak your keyboard's velocity curves to suit and the reverb is global across all patches so you will have to assign a CC to it or adjust the knob on the unit. No other effects from the panel but I'm going to see if GS type stuff is available from CC's over MIDI, like chorus, other reverbs, vibrato, etc. And also see if it responds to splits and layers because the GM spec is multi-timbral across 16 channels. (I'll report back on that after I get around to it).

Clearly, it's not an SF2 GM replacement or HyperSonic GM module, or even a TTS-1 or XG but it does the job in a cigarette pack form factor. Practice or jam or write ANYWHERE without a damn phone or computer. The battery lasts like 5 hours while powering a USB MIDI keyboard and you can use a backup phone battery to recharge it or keep it alive longer. (And you can also charge your phone with it).

Stuff your cheapo light little keyboard and this in a small bag with earbuds and truck and travel anywhere.

I'm not talking about replacing my investment in expensive pro-quality tools and toys here, but at the lower end of the spectrum, this little setup is really neat to have ready at a moment's notice anywhere, anytime. That's not to say I don't expect to see a little DSP or VST thingy this size one day, perhaps soon but surely it will cost big bucks.

For what this little MIDI setup does, I love it. It goes anywhere.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by dawman »

Another great share.

Thanks Ronnie.... :wink:
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by hubird »

+1 :)
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yayajohn
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by yayajohn »

thanks ronnie, as a frequent traveler i am always looking for stuff like this. Can't seem to ditch my full size laptop though - freakin old fart that I am. Like what you said - Sure wish there was a 1 DSP Scope unit like this>
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astroman
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by astroman »

80 bucks for a sub-XG quality box is just a rip-off imho, the MidiTech is obscene :D

I don't get the cabling-mess argument... keyboard and headphone connections are always present
the Midi box is an additional device, as could be any (outdated) iPhone or iPod
there certainly is a decent (!) software piano that doesn't burn up the thing

at least I can run the original Fairlight CMI app on my iPhone 3gs, which is some 5 years old ...
(and yes, that app in fact is usable on that tiny screen - since a stylus applies anyway)

cheers, Tom
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ronnie
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by ronnie »

astroman wrote:80 bucks for a sub-XG quality box is just a rip-off imho, the MidiTech is obscene :D

I don't get the cabling-mess argument... keyboard and headphone connections are always present
the Midi box is an additional device, as could be any (outdated) iPhone or iPod
there certainly is a decent (!) software piano that doesn't burn up the thing ....
Would you believe $39.95 as a backup phone charger that just happens to be a no latency GM (and maybe XG) box? I can velcro it to the keyboard and just worry about the headphone cable that won't get tangled when I answer my phone (and still be playing instead of listening to on hold BS, etc.) It works for me. :)

Since you brought up Yamaha, as in XG, a little more research into MidiPlus reveals some interesting stuff. It looks like they OEM controllers for M-Audio, Alesis, Novation as well as MIDI and audio interfaces for others as well as having the ability to use good Yamaha pianos and other patches in their own boxes. I do not have access to their licensing or OEM agreements to verify but from what I can tell by comparison with the "real deals" is that the sounds are exactly the same, the essential keyboard feel and functionality is the same although cosmetically different and in more than a couple of cases are the exact same thing for less money and in many cases, a lot less! And they have been doing this under the radar since 1977 (the same year Yamaha patented their FM - Phase Modulation engine, US Patent 4018121 in April 1977). Makes you wonder.... ??? Non-Disclosure Agreements, any one???

Maybe they are a candidate for a minified XITE lite (the XITE XTREME USB, maybe 2X4 with SP/DIF with some synths. mixers and effects for around $500)???? Hmmmmm... XITE just became mainstream with a clear added value upsell path. :D
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays
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astroman
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by astroman »

preferences may vary... ;)
if I were to play 'keyboard' on the go I might get an Akai SynthStation 25 and plugin the old iPhone 3gs
(the keyboard/dock is about $40, a 3gs starts at $30)
and even with this 'world's lamest smartphone' I could record just fine - while the MidiPlus is restricted to sound output
in the controller domain an IOS device beats any 1 knob midi thing hands down...
single caveat: Apple's shitty policy to make it incredibly hard to install old software

cheers, Tom
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ronnie
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by ronnie »

I'm not an iPhone guy so this is news. It sounds good if it can work reliably with a 3gs and GarageBand or the Roland SC GS iPhone app. For Android I might retire my current phone when I upgrade and dedicate the old one to a similar setup with NTrack and my 37 key controller (25 keys just won't do it for me). Then I can multi-track, etc. A SoundCanvas or similar for Android would be nice. I don't know how the Ntrack patches sound yet. Granted there are much better synths for the Apple App platform, like Korg. I have to try the Ntrack patches out but I suspect the Apple stuff is better. In the meantime this cheesy box works for me to practice and study music without all the technology. A nice 37 key synth with say an on-board SoundCanvas would be ideal for me.

Updated: The Ntrack DAW for Android uses SF2 samples, and doesn't sound bad. Maybe if a Samsung or LG Lollipop or Marshmallow fell off a truck... :wink:
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays
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astroman
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by astroman »

sorry, I misunderstood your original post as a description of an iPhone app...
(under IOS there's likely no heat problem at all)

forget Garageband, it's a bulky piece of crap...
I've mentioned the 3gs because I have one (still running IOS 6) with 'old' apps
(btw I was really surprised about such low prices on eBay)

it's not very high powered, incompatible with all current hardware and most apps require an IOS version that's not supported on the 3gs
that's the point where Apple really sucks:
no option to choose from different versions of an app, there's only 1 in the store (the most recent)
even worse: afaik a (regular) restore process must be signed by Apple, which they refuse for non-current IOS versions
so I have no idea, what will happen a restore is required from one of the images I filed on the PC
(to be honest I'm a big fan of that device, carried it around in the backpocket of my jeans for years and it simply does the job when needed)
of course it's totally funny that one can run a virtual CMI on it :D

on the other hand:
with current gear no such problems exist and there's a lot of peripheral devices
an iPhone 5s should be able to produce sound quality in the DIVA range, it has the same CPU as my iPad mini-2
that's a real powerhouse in your pocket, guitar amp sims that are on par with the best PC/Mac solutions
with a fairly simple connector (iRig Pre) it can do studio grade microphone recordings
for dynamic microphones a Triton Audio FETHead 'booster' ($80) can be inserted between the mic and the iRig
phantom powered condensor mics should be fine without - the converters (Cirrus OEMs for Apple) of the phone are surprisingly good
no cheapo, tho - expect $150-200

an iPhone 4s is more towards the low end, but more affordable and with few compatibility problems ($50-100)
playing a quality midi sound is no problem at all, but several demandig apps simultaneously is recommended
imho the 4s is an attractive option for a starting device with low budget (the 3gs can be tricky...)

generally you can do most of the things an iPad does, but with less screen estate

btw: this is from my iPad One (roughly the power of the iPhone 4s) with the afforementioned Fairlight CMI app
the sound is from the tablet's headphone out directly into Scope and has been postprocessed with at least Adern's Mojo
point-clicked together in about half an hour while first time trying the app
(I don't mention it because I consider myself a smart composer, but it shows the inspiration I got from that crude sequencer) :D

https://soundcloud.com/anshoragg/fairlight-cmipad


cheers, Tom
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ronnie
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by ronnie »

I hear you! See, I just want to avoid dealing with all the computer tech stuff and what could go wrong for basically a simple practice application. Just want to keep it simple.

You bring up good points with upgrades, updates all of a sudden potentially borking everything you finally got tweaked and working. The Korg Legacy and Roland SoundCanvas as well as a lot of stuff not available on the Android platform and only iStuff is seductive.

The power of the latest iPhones and iPads is truly awesome but pricey, as you say.

As I said in the OP I wish that there would be a DSP box this size with a decent LCD screen that could host VSTs. That would be the ultimate. Add MIDI recording - audio isn't necessary for me for what I need to practice and I would be happy. The MidiPlus Miniengine for the most part, and especially after using SCOPE and great native VSTs, is for sure cheesy but with no CPU problems etc., the basic keyboard sounds are decent enough for me to work on ideas and chops.
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays
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astroman
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by astroman »

I use IOS all the time for it's simplicity - there is no install, no operating system
buy an app, it get's tranferred to the device where you see just it's icon and that's about it
switch on the tablet, choose one of those icons and there's nothing but functionality
never seen anything that simple

there is no need for DSPs in a tiny box - the current ARM Chips do it just fine
I mean really fine - it sounds more similiar to UAD than to native VSTs
the complete memory/processing unit of an iPad is less than 2 square inch (guessing from photos)
energy managemet is so efficient, that it's never really switched off - just put in standby
I never measured it, but leaving it on the shelf for a week may draw 5% of the battery

an IOS device may seem expensive - but imho it's too different from Android (which is 'just another computer')
IOS is a class of it's own in functionality...
that's why there's no disk drive... and no apparent OS (all system stuff is hidden)
maybe not always appreciated - but data exchange is easy, so I don't mind
you get a solid value for your cash, price/functionality ratio is extremely high
btw I constantly use it as a midi controller for Scope synths

cheers, Tom
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ronnie
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by ronnie »

Hmmmm..... what would you recommend as like a refurb option.In an lPad?
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays
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astroman
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by astroman »

I have no experiences with refurbished units
generally I found 'used' prices for iPads on eBay rather high in comparison to recent models from the shop
my first iPad One was about $500, the later mini-2 (10 x processing power) and better converters just $300
even 'expensive' apps are neglectable compared to what you'd invest in PC software for similiar results
free stuff is usually crap or adware, expect 10-30 bucks for quality apps

mini-iPads fit in a bigger pocket, regular sized are more convenient to operate (for obvious reasons)

some apps have quite usable fake keyboards or input options: velocity is often calculated from the vertical hit position
if you keep the fingers on the surface after hit this is usually translated into some controller value (or handled like an XY-pad)
shurely not Chopin style compatible, but for synths it's nice

in shops they may have Thumbjam installed, it's quite popular... that's a good GM like point of start

cheers, Tom
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ronnie
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by ronnie »

For an iPad 2 Mini how many GB would you recommend?
"I’ve come to the conclusion that synths are like potatoes, they’re no good raw—you’ve got to cook ‘em, and I cooked these sounds for months before I got them to the point where they sounded musical to me." Lyle Mays
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by jksuperstar »

I have a 16gb iPad2, and never had an issue with storage. Most apps don't depend on large samples, and if you dont store video or photos, there's nothing to worry about.
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astroman
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Re: Cheap (Really Cheap) Go Anywhere MIDI Setup

Post by astroman »

yes, it depends on sample and recording needs
if I track vocals/guitar with microphones 1 hour is about 1 GB, adding 2 backing tracks would result in 3 GB total
my biggest instrument is the Mellotron with 2GB, the guitar stuff about 1 GB, a couple of groove samplers with another 2 GB total

but for synth stuff 16 GB isn't a problem
you just may consider that it's very convenient to record your performance on the iPad itself
it's easy to layer synths triggered by the same midi source, have a backing rhythm live modulated etc...
(I often use synths as input channels of Multitrack DAW instead of Audiobus, recording on the fly and collecting the 'good' parts)
in such cases more memory is nice to have

on the other hand: you don't loose anything with a small entry system
if you get the hang on it, you'll want a 2nd iPad anyway ;)

cheers, Tom
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