Song created with Six string Profit 5 STM2448+scope effects

[ARCADIOS]

I created this song and I would be pleased to have your opinions
I used ..except my voice.... STM2448, effects.. reverbs..compressors... 2 sixstrings for electric guitar and bass... profit5.. and a cakewalk drums

http://www.jumpingfish.gr/arcadiosr

I created this song with title "When eve's last rays in twilight die"
Studying Beethovens Irish songs for Baritone and Piano,(upcoming recording at the Greek National Radio),
I decided to create a Rock version...
I did it exclusively with scope...mixer, Sixstring, profit5 and scope mastering eqs and modules...

What is it that you think that needs attention and improvement....
Please do not be kind

[JoPo]

Yeah ! Nice ! I like the way you blend old and new style.

Six strings is one of the rare plugin I don't have...

[garyb]

it sounds like you know what you want and how to get it. good job!

[astroman]

cool track - well arranged
but as you asked for it:
partially it's a bit 'swooshy', in particular the guitar riff would benefit from more presence (less verb/delay)
the 'round' bass sound leaves some space in the lower mids to add impact to your voice (great vocal performance)

cheers, Tom

[ARCADIOS]

thank you for the positive opinions....

about the things that need improvement..... yes astroman... I will check it back again...
Actually I wonder if It would be possible to reach a high production quality(perhaps ""close"" to similar to a big production)..whithin only scopes environment,,,, and I try hard to improve the mixing and mastering quality,,,,
I do believe that the most important thing is to be able to get most of my existing gear....

the analysis of the mix

STM 2448 mixer - Mix inserts : 32band SC EQ
vocals on 1 mono channel: STM2448channel compressor and EQ+aux1 mono reverbRMX160
profit5 on 1 stereo channel: STM2448 channel compressor and EQ
sixstring e.guitar on 1 stereo channel: STM 2448 channel compressor and EQ +SPACE EQ+ stereo insert reverbRMX160
sixstring bass on 1 stereo channel: STM 2448 channel compressor and EQ(low cut)
drums from cakewalk on 1 stereo channel: Insert stereo RMX160 reverb.

and finaly one 32band EQ at the MIX insterts(low cut the lows and raised a little 12k and 16 k... and through the whole EQ I lowered frequencies..NEVER raised other, just LOWERED in order to achieve as much compact and not booming environment sound.... After recording at SAMPLITUDE the final waveform was normalized. and then extracted.

more opinions would be nice....and I will upload some more mp3s trying to improve the whole thing

[ARCADIOS]

That's why I am asking... because I am interested in how it sounds to the friends here.. that we have been for 10 years here writing for thousands of topics....
I thought that it would be ok if (OFF TOPIC) we could talk about Scopes capabilities in action....

engineers.. ok.... but I am not so sure about their work only because they are engineers....
If someone does something doesn't mean that it does it good for me....
Besides I have heard many professional works in Lps and Cds especially in Cds mastering that seem terrible to me..

[fra77x2]

Yeah,

you don't have to learn that stuff, you are a natural and learning is gonna ruin you




It can be done inside scope but you have to be an expert in digital production and mastering

[ARCADIOS]

I answered man before you deleted your post.. .... but anyway it s similar what you say again

[fra77x2]

Sorry i' m joking.

Anyway look, i don't want to sound harsh.

I think from the part of the musician you have done (i listened very fast to your song)
a great job.
Now to make it sound very high quality as i know you can give your tracks to a production engineer
or simply to a mastering engineer (you will get different results) and you will get a different result.

You can do it by your self by putting in the end of your chain
a "chain of processors for mastering" (you can find lists like this in the internet) to get a more
in-your-face result, but it is not always as simple as it sounds.

It depends always what you are looking for, what is the budget you have and stuff like that


If you like to try to do it your self you can get a song that you like its production
and put it side by side with your mix.
And try to check the differences, where are the instruments situated,
what are the elements that your mix seems to miss,
what is the overall volume and loudness,
etc

You can then try to improve the production of the individual elements.

[ARCADIOS]

ok... engineers would be fine... but you seem to be willing to cut the discuission
I would prefer to analize more with the guys I am talking here in Z,,, including you offcourse.... ... and thanks for the nice words about my performance.... (about professionals...its a huge subject) I don't always trust the prfessionals... For instance I have seen sooooo many professional critics in the field of classical music and especialy in opera that I am a pro myself.... that I do not agree with their opinions

[fra77x2]

ok,


if i ask you how do you sing so nice and to give me some hints how to sing nice on my own,

And you provide me these hints,

will i be able to sing like you?


I also hate professionalism but professionals is the best we got

[ARCADIOS]

........ we mix 2 different subjects here now.... 1. My post which in other words I asked of what is it you DON'T like at the song, and 2. Who can give information and who is more accurate or capable of providing opinions...

[fra77x2]

I don't like in your song what you don't like in your song,
and i like what you like

[JoPo]

You can get amazing results just with grapheq & optimaster (try its wizard then improve the settings) on the final mix. Try also optimaster presets, some are awesome !

[yayajohn]

Nice Track! Great beat and great sound! Thanks for sharing that.

[astroman]

yeah - but 'great' in the context Arcadios asks for still is a few steps away...
here's one that really lives up to that claim - without any opti-loudi-pretending
maybe you remember Elton John's Rocket Man ... here it's in Bluegrass
check frequency spectrum, balance of bass-highs, definition of instruments, impact, clearness of vocals
all that sh*t just melts into 1 groovy piece of sound - in remarkable sound quality

imho it's a valid benchmark even if from a different genre
those old boys and their engineer just nailed it - such stuff is quite useful to re-calibrate your ears, too

if you switch between the two, you will immediately feel what Arcadios' track lacks
and that's probably why he asked for suggestions
I also like his track, which is building up tension, some drama, a great performance
the basic idea behind the mix (when the bass sets in) fits well, but could be improved...

ps: when listening the first time I forgot about Arcadios' classical background
few singers manage this kind of crossover in such a convincing way

cheers, Tom

[garyb]

to be fair, and to use a visual arts metaphor, the choice of medium makes a difference.
different music has different purposes. that type of arrangement and recording of the Elton John song isn't appropriate for everything. i agree, it's exceptionally well done. the vast majority of what makes that recording of Rocket Man sound so good, besides the performances, is the room, and then the room with the mics and pres. it's acoustic music recorded acoustically. electronic music shouldn't sound that way. i agree that the balance in the mix and the mastering was top-notch. i just can't escape the sound of the room. a reverb will never sound as nice as a good room.

anyway, the original Rocket Man was not nearly as impeccably done as this bluegrass version, but it has a sound of it's own that is strong enough to call great production, as great as anything ever. the fact that a bluegrass band was inspired enough by the song says enough. the Elton John version was done appropriately for it's time and purpose. it was a perfect album in that time, and it's still in our ears today, even though many who know of the songs from it weren't even born when it hit. i can't fault it, i have to say that it's still a great SOUNDING album(not that i would expect anyone to prefer the tunes themselves). it's a totally different way of sounding great, compared to the bluegrass version.

speaking purely from a recording only viewpoint, i'd call the bluegrass version superior to the original. from a production viewpoint, looking at the actual product, i'd have to choose the original. both views have value and should be optimized as much as possible, obviously.

i agree it's good to hear great production and great recording from every possible source, because then one already knows the answers to "what is my music lacking?". of course "how do i do that?" is a whole other issue.

astro is definitely correct that it could have better balance frequency-wise, and it's a bit harsh sounding. again, what is the purpose of the music? where will it be played? who will hear it? maybe it's perfect, maybe you need to remove any eq or compression on the master bus and send it to a mastering lab and see what they say...

[ARCADIOS]

I try to reproduce the atmosphere of a good sounding rock band mastered for vinyl...
The truth is that my song is maybe inspired from 1.duran duran(profit5 synth) 2.IronMaiden(guitars..not bass) and I try to cpmpare and make it sound good.... I surely recognize that it lacks ... (even now I feel that I could have reached some higher notes/but that would change a little the style)....
Anyway... you all have good points...

Me personally that I know how it is made... I find many issues while listening....
But I will try to make it a little more balanced according to EQ.....

also astroman... about the bass higher frequencies.. you probably mean that there could be a better connection with the mid low of the vocals... I will check both ways... making the voice closer to bass highs... or perhaps better.. making the bass more present at its highs frequencies... and perhaps that could make the song sound better in lowfi players like laptops and mobilephones...
I remember always QuincyJones in an interview about Michael Jacksons Thriller.. that he always checked with crap speakers to see if it can play there....

[astroman]

to be honest: I found the Rocket Man example as misplaced as appropriate at the same time
it's a totally different genre, but that way avoids a: listen to xyz (arbitrary electronic track) and how they've done it

I like the idea of your mix, which gets apparent when the bass sets in - that's well done
and the bass sound itself is a really good one in this context (it does not conflict with the voice)
in quantities I'd say the track is 75% there already, it's more fine tuning (synth atmo and bass are already nice)
the 'guitar riff' less embedded would add some punch - it has lot's of space available (no vocals)
+ the voice slightly emphasized in lower registers would add power ... and that's it...

I would treat it mainly with the Anwida L1V Limiter
it just does that 'bigger' as a side effect of the shifted dynamic context, hardly needs EQ
(the device may look stupidly simple, but is pure magic - the VST counterpart of SAW-Studio's Levelizer, but 'better')
it can do a stunning degree of undistorted loudness gain, you'll prefer it to any compressor if it's about impact

cheers, Tom