In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

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Marco
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In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by Marco »

Heute wählen for a better Future in Europa.
Muss Merkel weg?
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Mr Arkadin
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by Mr Arkadin »

Should be in Off Topic.
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by fra77x2 »

Don't be afraid of the silly nationalists, sooner or later they are gonna dig back in their holes again

Europe is a modern continent it is obliged to offer solidarity to war refugees.

Immigrants from Europe are all over the world.

Humanitarian values are at the heart of society

Merkel is fine
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by faxinadu »

how is this a scope announcement?
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by Marco »

:-? Sorry offtopic but everybody is talking today about it
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by JoPo »

fra77x2 wrote:Don't be afraid of the silly nationalists, sooner or later they are gonna dig back in their holes again

Europe is a modern continent it is obliged to offer solidarity to war refugees.

Immigrants from Europe are all over the world.

Humanitarian values are at the heart of society

Merkel is fine
I wish so much to agree with you ! But I'm affraid nationalism and extrem right are still here and feel fine. In France, they are going to smash all the other and after, time will be needed before people understand their megale malakias (sorry I don't know how to write it correctly).
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- Musica --> here ! ---< < < < < < < < < < < <
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by Xite Knight v2.0 »

Democracy's a pain in the neck when people don't vote as you expected
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by hubird »

Xite Knight v2.0 wrote:Democracy's a pain in the neck when people don't vote as you expected
The question is, whom's neck?
If nationalist parties like AfD grow then it's what the people want...

Merkel has courage, and represents post war new responsible Germany.
I hope she will stand, but the trend in Europe is towards populism.

As long as the constitution isn't violated, as it looks to be the case in Poland, I'm fine.
Plus an independant judiciary and a free press, both violated in Erdogan's Turkey btw.

Massive distrust in politics at a degree as in the States is even more catastrophic. It generated the idiot of Trump.
If the AfD is the voice for those people then this keeps everyone on board and the neo-nazis out.
Compare Frauke Petry with Trump and see the difference.

If 'we' don't want getting AFD too big 'left' should develop a good alternative.
But left is in defence alas.


- Don't feel happy replying to this OT thread in Announcements...
Could it be moved?
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by Bud Weiser »

I wished this thread would be closed and/ or moved to the "off topic" department.

Unbelievable what I read here.
People living in other countries and not familiar w/ german domestic policy comment on what´s happening here.

Merkel might be fine for the other nations, but she´s the last in line shit for germany, period.
A politician not representing the voting people is crap.

Germany´s dept rises about EUR 1.556,- / sec. and is actually ...
http://www.staatsschuldenuhr.de/
Upcoming generations, our children and also their children, will have to pay that.

We, most citizen, aren´t rich really and don´t have the intention to financiate the idea of "europe" forever.
The real dept of germany is 283% of gross domestic product !!!
In german language unfortunately:
http://www.focus.de/finanzen/steuern/wa ... 45136.html

Most of the refugees prefer to come to germany because (silly) "Merkel invited ´em ..."
The truth is, there are no houses, appartments, jobs or whatever quickly to arrange help for all those people.

But,- there also weren´t any payable houses, appartments and enough jobs for german people since many years,- if not decades.
In fact, people losing work, sometimes when 45+ years old (many friends of mine did), had to work for EUR 1.- /hr (Hartz IV system) for many years as also suffer from discrimination.
Many suicides and so on ...

All "refugees" coming here now, get minimum wage (EUR 8,50), health insurance, accomodadion and more, but never paid into the social system.

What do you think the EUR 1,- workers from the past years think about that ?
Those formerly EUR 1,- workers now get EUR 404,- monthly for their living, some rent and some heating costs in addition, depending on where they live.
But don´t think they can live where they want,- there are limitations,- hard ones !
40 squaremeters of room is one of these.
Owning a car,- no-go !
Owning some expensive goodies,- maybe music instruments ... well put ´em on an auction before you get any money from government.

Every refugee coming to germany,- this example just only for my hometown, costs EUR 1.026,- 1st month and EUR 963,- from month 4.
Last year, that was about 300 mio EUR and this year it will be about 700 mio EUR,- just only for my actual hometown.

It´s evident it will cost another 50 billion EUR + for next future !

What do you think our own people think about that ?
They pay(ed) into the social system every month when they have or had work, and then, it goes mostly for the refugees ...

Not every refugee is in danger, only a few percent are and come from countries where´s war.

Most are economic refugees.
They threw away their documents and come over the Mediterranean Sea because they payed people smugglers.
They HAD the money (I don´t have 5K EUR for gear b.t.w.).
They all have a smartphone and other goodies,- I don´t have one.

I tell you, most people being in danger still, are where the danger is, just because they cannot pay people smugglers.

What do y´all think we are in germany,- IDIOTS ?
We aren´t,- Merkel is,- and that´s what you other europaens appreciate.
You want germany being responsible for everything thinkable and paying everything.

Well,- Merkel counts on europaen solidarity,- but in fact this is non-existend !
She´s blind,- some mercyful helper syndrom to be associated w/ fem. human beings only.

@ hubrid

I´m not responsible for what german politicans and their abettors did during war and Merkel isn´t too.
No reason to kiss other´s ass.
I see genocide in history everywhere and ´til today,- it´s not a german invention.
I save myself examples here.
I don´t sanction genocide and don´t think artist like we are, making music and working w/ people from other countries (I did a lot) do,- but it IS still present and was always.

The most dangeroust beast of prey on this planet is the human himself, so we´re all potential killers even not all behave like that.

@annabella

Comments on AfD are worthless.
No one knows what the really want,- they actually don´t have any party platform.
All you know comes from media and that doesn´t mean it´s true.
It´s a bit more complex IMO.
In fact, citizen of germany, since many years, had the impression voting makes no sense at all because of the behaviour of the established parties.
Voter participation in germany was decreasing continuously,- which says it all.

AfD mobilized formerly non-voters, which is good for democracy and doesn´t mean AfD will win in the end.
But we need new parties, creating a working opposition.

And now feel free banning me.

I´m done w/ that BS I read here and I was surprised forum rules allowed posting that shit in S|C announcements.

thx for reading

Bud
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by hubird »

Ok Bud, nice reading you :)
I just wish more members join the debates here.
Bud Weiser wrote:I wished this thread would be closed and/ or moved to the "off topic" department.
Agreed, not closed of course (what's wrong with it?), but moved :)

The same discussion about the refugees and their costs we have in Holland too.
Although I'm a leftie, if you read back my post I'm actually 'defending' the upcoming AfD and it's voters, just for reasons of democracy.
What I was saying is that the AfD is the legitimate voice of those who don't want 'Wir schaffen das'.
And that such a 'normal citizens party' helps keeping the neonazis outside.
Which reflects also your following up words: 'In fact, citizen of germany, since many years, had the impression voting makes no sense at all because of the behaviour of the established parties. '.
Bud Weiser wrote:Unbelievable what I read here.
People living in other countries and not familiar w/ german domestic policy comment on what´s happening here.
Hey, that's what makes an international forum so interesting...sometimes a view from distance can offer nice observations, I like that :)
Bud Weiser wrote:What do y´all think we are in germany,- IDIOTS ?
We aren´t,- Merkel is,- and that´s what you other europaens appreciate.
You want Germany being responsible for everything thinkable and paying everything.
Who said Germans are idiots?
No me at least, and no one here if I'm right.
Actually almost every country in Europe has it's own 'AfD' now, in my country it's Geert Wilders taking the lead..
All those people are with you, Bud :D

But you must accept that a very lot of people think differently about the subject, in Germany as in other European countries as well.
That's how it works in a democracy.
You might find it unbelievable, yet others can't imagine not to help the refugees, even if those are to be considered as economical refugies.
Look at the elections in your country last week: the refugee friendly parties won also at some states...
Bud Weiser wrote:@ hubrid
I´m not responsible for what german politicans and their abettors did during war and Merkel isn´t too.
No reason to kiss other´s ass.
This is a delicate subject., I’ve met German young people in my life who thought quite differently about that.
Just wanted to show that I'm aware of the motives moving Merkel ...and that I do feel respect for that.
Bud Weiser wrote:And now feel free banning me.
Do you have any idea about the written and unwritten rules for being banned?
I’m even glad with your arguments, you can’t help it the original poster took the wrong subforum.
The moderator was already asked (by me) to move the thread to OT, so who would blame you?
Bud Weiser wrote:I´m done w/ that BS I read here and I was surprised forum rules allowed posting that shit in S|C announcements.
I didn’t read any 'BS', just suggestions and opinions, just like it should be :)
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by guppy »

hubird

Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by hubird »

you mean all Ossies (including Merkel) coming to the West were also refugees? :lol:
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by Bud Weiser »

hubird wrote:

The same discussion about the refugees and their costs we have in Holland too.
Although I'm a leftie, if you read back my post I'm actually 'defending' the upcoming AfD and it's voters, just for reasons of democracy.
What I was saying is that the AfD is the legitimate voice of those who don't want 'Wir schaffen das'.
Well, it´s not matter of if you want "wir schaffen das" or not,- in fact you can´t as long it´s impossible distributing the masses of refugees all-over the EU-countries and distributing costs.
As I said in former post, that kind of solidarity is missing.
We already have about 1.5mio here now and other countries take 12.000, 70.000 or whatever more or less low number.
It´s a joke.
In real, the other EU countries think "Merkel invited ´em, so she has to take the most (or better all) alone".
And there´s some truth because she really did, but forgot asking her own citizen as well as those from other countries.
The partial success of AfD is definitely the echo !

I´m not really very interested in politics, so I´m one of the non-voters since more than 30 years.
I also didn´t vote now, because german regional elections didn´t happen in my country/state up to now.
I´m also pretty sure AfD has to be observed carefully and they might become dangerous when they grow too much.
But other parties are also dangerous,- just only in different and more elegant ways.
They have much more options hiding their real targets ´cause they are established.

There´s much more behind those wars and millions of refugees, incl. economic refugees, in the world.
Destabilization of national, or in this case, europaen economy, by flooding the area w/ refugees is a concept.
TTIF is possibly another one in addition and we´ll see what investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) will perpetrate.

I don´t trust Merkel as I also didn´t trust J.Trittin, who is from the "green" party and should behave somewhat different compared to Merkel,- but both visited the Bilderberger conference.
Merkels chancellorship started after this visitation.
Not every german visitor of the conference became german "Kanzler", but almost any german "Kanzler" was at the conference before.
Now Ursula ("Flinten Uschi" :D ) von der Leyen is invited.
When Merkel has to go, she might be the next.
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/hintergruend ... cher-.html

I´m not sure whom we really vote when we vote,- maybe string puppets.
hubird wrote: And that such a 'normal citizens party' helps keeping the neonazis outside.
Well, in germany real nazis are forbidden as are their symbols/icons, publications and whatever thinkable.
I don´t see that in france, belgium, greece and also not in the US.
Fascists exist everywhere around the globe.
hubird wrote: Actually almost every country in Europe has it's own 'AfD' now, in my country it's Geert Wilders taking the lead..
All those people are with you, Bud :D
Thank you,- I had a premonition of what comes now ...
hubird wrote: But you must accept that a very lot of people think differently about the subject, in Germany as in other European countries as well.
That's how it works in a democracy.
Thx for advise,- we obviously have a communication problem.
hubird wrote: You might find it unbelievable, yet others can't imagine not to help the refugees, even if those are to be considered as economical refugies.
Look at the elections in your country last week: the refugee friendly parties won also at some states...
There´s unfortunately a difference how you think about something and how to realize.
You have to think and talk to the people about the funding and that is what they don´t do here.
They don´t tell the truth and have no real plan.
They just only think it works some way and hope it will do
At the same time, people fear losing their assets one day because of the expected costs.
Since we/ europe had to rescue banks and pumped several hundred mio EUROs into greece, german justice renewed some law in the sense of "forced loan" and "judgment creditor´s mortgage" in case the state might go bancrupt or when borrowing requirements take place.
So, you might lose your house and estate when unable to pay the debt and interest rate caused by those sanctions.
It´s not unlikely it can happen because we had that in germany in 1952 already.

Doesn´t mean AfD or similar will do better.

hubird wrote: This is a delicate subject.,
No, it´s not.
There is no law knowing liability of generations for a crime (against humanity) commited before.
Think colonial era and what happened to the south american cultures, or in africa, india and elsewhere.
What about all the killed north american indians ? The Aborigines ?
What did Khmer Rouge in cambodia ? What did Stalin ?
Idi Amin, Sadam, Gaddafi ... Bin Laden/ Al Quaeda,- now ISIS ...
The list is endless.
There are "Hitlers" everywhere, but all point on germany since now more than 70 years while Israel treats the Palestinian like s##t.
In german TV yiu see all the crap since decades and until the cows come home.
It´s sort of brainwash ...

I say it loud an clear,- I have enough from double moral standards and applying double standards in general.

hubird wrote: I’ve met German young people in my life who thought quite differently about that.
Matter of breeding.
You follow or you don´t.
Some do, other´s not.

Breeding, when I was in school in germany, was comparable to some brain wash when it came to history lessons and politics.
I never believed that nonsense.

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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by Nestor »

All I can say is that this is an irreparable mess, there is no return to normality anymore, the consequences of what has been already done in Europe are enormous, and there is nothing in the horizon you could say: hey, there it comes the solution. There is no solution to this conflict. This is only the beginning…

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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by hubird »

Mwa, Nestor, bring in some arguments to the subject instead of predicting the end of times or history :lol:
I know you will like Bud's words about the powers behind, but what adds your 'statement' to the discussion?
He he, I was just happy we had a normal discussion here with some folks normally don't join this scenery so often.
I know already I will be dead in three years :D

Nice read Bud Weiser.

TTIP and ISDS would be a enormous shame for the World, and Europe in this case.
In Holland, since a few years, the people can request a referendum.
In april we will vote a yes or no to the trade treaty with Ukraine.
Probably it will be a no, they say.

Personally, after three times switching already I've decided to vote a yes, as I'm solidair in the first place with the Maidan people who wanted to get rid of the ultra corrupt elite of oligarches.
And I don't wanne be guilty on facilitating Putin for taking further violating of sovereign countries.
I consider Putin as the biggest threat for the World peace, above Assad of Syria.

Another referendum is being prepared for TTIP ISDS.
The not so 'sexy' subject is quite well known here, especially with youngsters thanks to a talked about TV show with satiric approach.
I make a prediction: ISDS and also TTIP to some essential degree won't make it in Europe, even in the EU parliament there's a lot of resistance growing. A No here will be a serious problem for the EU.
Important changements for ISDS are already proposed and discussed.

To my information there's a lot of public discussion going on in Germany about the refugee theme, including long term costs, integration, housing, labor market threat, but also Islamization of the Abendland, cultural clashes as seen in Cologne at NYE, etc.
The voice of the nameless man and woman in the streets is heard, and not too less.
Merkel once reluctantly skipped the nuclear power stations because das Volk forced her to, if I remember well.

I know typically German press since WW II adopted a 'educative' task, they should be an example of correctness.
The same for authorities like the police departments looking away too much.
Cologne was a breaking point.
But it was in the news here that tabloid Bild was speaking up for the refugees last year.

A news item told about the difference with Holland.
In 2002 we had the murder on Pim Fortuyn in 2002, intellectual, gay and hero of the lower class, which always suffers most from capitalistic crises and dito manipulations, and which had already lost contact with the old labor party (reverse actually :wink: ).
So Germany was said just having started this process we had then, just in a higher gear because of the refugee crisis.

Not to teach here, but it's important to understand where things come from, and to see the development, in whatever direction actually.
Only then you can imagine a future.
In our case, the incorporated idea of educative task of the press as the presentation of new Germany was historically a logical or understandable development, but now history (Cologne) asks for a new approach on different levels, and it's happening now and we look at it.

Reading the stuff of your posts, I can only say that I'm absolutely aware of those things.
Like, refugees are indeed part of military strategy, by IS and by Putin especially.
If you think you had it all there's more.

I just put the elements differently together.
You seem to have lost all confidence in anything, so what can I say.
Not much. Just what's happening now is development. History doesn't stop.

Eh, Bilderberg, hmm, nah...old stuff.
They did great work after WW II when they started to build Europe up again without making the same fault of Versailles after WW II.
I once saw a fantastic documentary about the very start of the it, like finding enough type writers and tables. Nice recordings also.
They got a very team of politicly very correct pioneers, and now, Bilderberg is still their party. Have fun :D

Every social group wants to have it's informal but private gatherings.
The populist parties of Begium/Vlandre and Holland also have their gatherings 'on invitation'.
Geert Wilders goes to Canada and Australia, and I go to the Boom festival in Portugal this year.

Anyway, decisions are made in parliaments, and the voice of the common people is quite strong these days: Poland, Hungary, Holland, Germany, etc. Radical reduction of refugees is # one at the moment.
You said you don't believe it will work, but what would you try if you was them?
Delete all weapons in the world immediately and announce peace?

Anyway, talking too much :)

Garyb, thanks for moving the thread :)
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by garyb »

it was no problem moving the thread, hubird. my pleasure.
you're a control freak in you own way, aren't you? :lol:

i get tired of the rhetoric.
it's not bad that people have their own customs and beliefs. if you are a guest, you act according to the customs of your host, to the best of your ability. almost nobody minds these types of guests and almost everyone is happy to assist that kind of person in an extreme emergency.

it's really a terrible thing that this nonsense in the world affects real human beings who are just trying to live a "normal" life. that goes for refuges and also for hosts.

nobody is required to help these people, as horrible as it is to say this. life is uncertain, and nobody has a promise of things being nice, of not dying horribly, not me or any other person. neither is it required that someone help me in any way, without me giving something in return. in fact, nobody owes me anything. as Scarlett O'Hara once said in a movie, I have always relied on the kindness of strangers. the fact is, we all do. the systems that exist for taking care of human needs care nothing for those humans. that is the reason the there are refugees in the first place. it is only humans that can make these systems useful for humans. i would suggest that a world where people helped each other would be the best world to live in. all could have purpose. in fact, the world is somewhat in this mold. that's the reason why we accept it, because human beings generally love other human beings, even if they don't want to be near them.

there are many different forces at work here. first, there is empire. i know about this because the USA is a conquered land. empire make a mess in a far-off corner and then when the middle class feels guilty, selected families are saved from the mess and given opportunity back near the empire's home base.

i hear natives complain about the irony of the present American disdain for immigration, but actually, the Europeans who conquered America were indeed conquerors and usurpers, not immigrants. immigrants are those who come from a place where things aren't so great to a place that is pretty cool. immigration can be a form of conquest however, as the immigration might not be an attempt to join in the good thing going, but to be an attempt to control that good thing. it can be a way for a country to dump those people who are not sociable, to make them someone else's problem. immigration can be good, hardworking people just looking for an opportunity to thrive in a place with some space, either land or financial.

immigrants can also be regular folks fleeing a despot or catastrophe. these people don't have to be helped, but i know if something that traumatic that i would go anywhere to be away from here, that i would hope someone would help me.

all that said, i don't have space at my house or the money to pay for even one person's existence.

nobody should have to see his home ruined by people just looking for an easy time and a free ride. nobody has to do that. period.
nobody should have to suffer because of soldiers, either. it's no accident that these weapons are destroying civilian cities, the ultimate barbarism. i don't care if the gangs shoot each other, just leave the common folk out of it.

i'm sorry for those who live in refugee camps, areas and towns. it only takes one generation of hopelessness to make a group of people into human animals, full of cunning, but little love.
i'm sorry for those who live near what becomes a dirty, depressing horror story. of course, this is true wherever the poor are. many of the poor were never poor until they discovered what rich really is and compared it to their own lives. where once they were humans who lived, loved, had disagreements and great events, traditions and a sure-fire way to get along, now were human scum, human rats, human dogs and worse, because the riches they once had in life and community were now measured in money.

of course, all this is just a big romance.

there is a system of money and resources and this system moves without regard to humanity. i'm sure it benefits someone. i have no solutions, but if people want to solve these problems they can. this is only if they can figure out how to think about these things by themselves, without the aid of "experts".
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by dawman »

The American effort to combat climate change with weapons from Libya has failed.
I want to thank my European brothers for bailing out another failed attempt of our wealthiest politicians to make the world as they wish it was.
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by hubird »

garyb wrote:it was no problem moving the thread, hubird. my pleasure.
you're a control freak in you own way, aren't you? :lol:
Not really, I just saw that someone felt upset by replying to it while in the announcement forum.
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by garyb »

yes, really, but that's ok! i appreciate the "heads-up!".
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Re: In germany is Landtagswahl today AFD is rising

Post by Bud Weiser »

garyb wrote:
... if you are a guest, you act according to the customs of your host, to the best of your ability. almost nobody minds these types of guests and almost everyone is happy to assist that kind of person in an extreme emergency.

... it is only humans that can make these systems useful for humans.

... all that said, i don't have space at my house or the money to pay for even one person's existence.

... nobody should have to see his home ruined by people just looking for an easy time and a free ride. nobody has to do that. period.

...nobody should have to suffer because of soldiers, either.
it's no accident that these weapons are destroying civilian cities, the ultimate barbarism.

... many of the poor were never poor until they discovered what rich really is and compared it to their own lives. where once they were humans who lived, loved, had disagreements and great events, traditions and a sure-fire way to get along, now were human scum, human rats, human dogs and worse, because the riches they once had in life and community were now measured in money.

... there is a system of money and resources and this system moves without regard to humanity. i'm sure it benefits someone.
Gary, you nail it !
All great lines !

I´ve found this interview from jan 2016 interesting,- it´s in english ...
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/328792-germa ... terrorism/

Willy Wimmer is a cool guy ...
Quote:
“It would be better to stop US or NATO wars,” in the Middle East and North Africa, “to get in control of our [EU’s] borders again.”

Great line too !

:)

Bud
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