Sonic-Core & Kickstarter

[garyb]

by the way, i should point out that Scope is NOT all about synths.
synths, while being fantastic in Scope, are just part of the audio tool itself. synths are made from the same elements as mixers and FX. it's just that most people HERE are mainly synthesists.

[tlaskows]

I post good things about Scope without getting paid for it and no one cares. Are they paying everyone not to listen to me?

hmm...

-Tom

[tlaskows]

by the way, i should point out that Scope is NOT all about synths.
synths, while being fantastic in Scope, are just part of the audio tool itself. synths are made from the same elements as mixers and FX. it's just that most people HERE are mainly synthesists.

Well, yes. The synths are top of the line plus the routing capabilities and (soon) 4 hardware MIDI ports. Why is it taking over a month for cheap parts to get here from China so I can build an ADAT plate MIDI plate

-Tom

[tlaskows]

Oh, BTW, I had an argument on UA forums that the Mpact-2 chip on the UAD-1 has more processing power than an Old 6 DSP Pular? card. So yeah, I am not sure where they got the numbers from... If that's true, why do they have mkII versions of the plugins that take 10 times more DSP? Oh, and the Neve 88RS strip take half a whole DSP chip. Who writes their code? You said something about old Creamware employees?

-Tom

[garyb]

ummmm....

[tlaskows]

Yes, that's why I don't go on those forums anymore. You can try to describe it as best as you can, but no one believes anyone who says anything about Scope

Yes, there are 1 or 2 people on there that 'used' to have Scope. If Mpact-2 was so fast, why do they copy Creamware and used Analog Devices

I read somewhere (don't remember where) that UA had some kind of 'deal' in place and they had access to develop on those chips waaaaay before they was released to the general public. Do not worry, Scopers. UA has a LOT of catching up to do. I saw topics like 'I can't route this to this' on the forums. Well, this was possible with Scope in 1997.

-Tom

[zerocrossing]

that costs a crapload of money and time. you can have the "killer app" OR the marketing. which do you prefer?

I think you're missing my point. The "killer app(s)" already exist. The marketing already exists. The cost of a better web site would be nominal. Hell, I'd do it in exchange for software.

the computer industry DO NOT WANT Scope to live. there have been paid trolls in forums and sabotage of the old Creamware servers and forums. i was there to witness these things. Scope is EXACTLY the opposite of what the computer model for business has been made into. Ken is correct. selling stuff that is meant to be replaced to a hypnotized consumer base that just wants new, shiny stuff is the plan, Bic lighters over refillable lighters that get used for years, mass consumption. the industry has done nothing to support this type of technology. of course, there's no reason why it should. as Ken said, in the current model, making something to be bought once is NOT the way to make money. once upon a time, it was the ONLY way to make money. i guess people were less foolish, or something....

Yeah, I completely agree with the above, though I don't think there's any conscious conspiracy against Scope. I've been complaining about the "throw away" nature of our culture for years now. Here's the thing though. Hard core musicians and audio engineers are often the exact kinds of people you want for a product like the Scope. I see it here. The user base is like Daenerys Strongborn's Unsullied army. I see lots of people who are willing to shell out what ever it takes to get the sound they're looking for and happily condemn native software for exactly the reasons you listed.

also, while there ARE VSTs that compare with the better Scope plugins in quality, they are often much less practical in terms of resources used, or realtime possibilities. for the most part, VSTs cannot use the same quality of algorithms unless you want to use them offline. guess what else? NI and UAD and several other major plugin makers wouldn't be anything without Creamware employees that were fired by the German courts in the first Creamware insolvency. there really aren't that many high level coders in this world.

I have to disagree with you a bit there. If you have a good audio interface (something like PCIe or Firewire) and an i7 running at 4 ghz, you can do a lot with native plug ins, even the resource hungry ones, especially if you're a clever engineer who knows what a bus is and how to "freeze" a track. In my opinion, we're not going after those dollars. I'd go after the more experimental musicians who want to do interesting things in a live context with a laptop. From what I can tell, this would have really been the perfect thing for me when I was doing live shows in the SF Bay area in the early and mid 00s. I just didn't know it existed. Go after the gigging musician who is tired of lugging around his aging Prophet 5 and Minimoog. Of course I think the Solaris is already that. Frankly the Solaris would be prefect for my needs but as a bedroom producer space is an issue. Is the Solaris doing well? I do see it mentioned with a fair amount of frequency on forums. Go after... well me! The established guy who's got some money in the bank to spend on his hobby who has been around the block enough to know the difference between a CS-80 and CS80v who's studio is now relegated to a spare room, but they still want to do the damage they could do when they had a ton of hardware instruments, but with a similar audio quality. I think there may be more of us around than you'd think.

in order for Apple to do things the way that they do, they have had several HUGE influxes of CASH. the most important one being directly from Microsoft's Bill Gates. why would Mr. Gates prop up his competition? the computer industry is not part of a free and open market. it's part of a very large and well funded organization of big companies who have a plan, and are happy to implement that plan slowly. we do NOT get the latest tech. we get tech that is several generations old, and the path is already decided. marketing, which includes all media including television and movies and books tells us what to buy next and we happily comply. we pay for useless products that ALMOST work in order to fund the next step in the development of the plan. of course, now, there's really no need for anything new because what's here currently is more than sufficient for the average person's needs. it's actually pretty criminal that machines that already do everything that people really need them to do are here now, and yet people are conditioned to want to go into debt to buy more, and then have the systems for monitoring and control of the population put in place with peoople's own money.

SonicCore can't even imagine having something like an Apple Store, although it would be freaking AWESOME if it were possible.



just some happy thoughts for the day. it's nothing that serious. if the product is useful, then great! if it is not, then nobody will buy it. that's how things should be. as i've said before, Scope doesn't have to be mass marketed. everybody doesn't need it. for pros and for serious hobbyists and do-it-yourselfers, Scope represents everything good that computers, pieces of crap that they are, can offer. that is truly high quality audio tools that are capable of rivaling the best hardware at a price that is manageable for most people. people spend $3000 dollars on big screen TVs. the headphones and headphone amps in my studio cost half an XITE. the hardware compressors in my studio cost more than an XITE and i only have about 6.

the problem is the thinking of the "consumers". SonicCore doesn't need "consumers", they need customers.

Exactly. I think we're actually arguing the same point but I'm not making myself clear. When I was talking about Apple's marketing I wasn't talking about opening Sonic Core boutique stores, or going after the kind of mass market that a personal computer is made for. I was specifically talking about the way Apple makes it's stuff look sexy by focusing on the art made with them. I maybe should have used Native Instruments as an example. Marketing like Native Instruments but focused on a higher end customer. I know there's never going to be an XITE in every studio. There shouldn't be. I do think it could be part of a broader ecosphere of products though. I have no idea what happened with the whole Plugiator thing... and I'll probably be ruffling someone's feathers at this point, but it's kind of a good idea. It should probably have been in a form factor that is closer to Roland's new System-1 (but with an actual keyboard that wasn't crap) or like Elektron's Analog Four module. Something that could retail for less than $1000 that was stand alone but also had software integration like Elektron's Overbridge. It could be totally used in a DAW environment yet also get taken to a gig where the laptop was left home. More importantly, it would be a stepping stone for XITE-1 customers. A way to get a taste of that world for not too much money. It would come with a handful of emulations but with the ability to customize it buy purchasing a few more.

Here's the thing about Plugiator: Think about it as you will (I honestly have zero knowledge about the split in Creamware that caused it to come into existance.), but I own my XITE-1 only because of it. When I was researching for replacements for my Prophet 12 (not good enough sounding for the money and too big for my shrinking space) and KingKORG (decent sound for the money but not that great and also big) I didn't find the XITE-1. I first found the Plugiator... and I think it was a demo of maybe Lightwave? I can't remember. More research into the Plugiator showed me that it wasn't quite for me... too limited but maybe the Noah? Almost bought a Noah, but by then I kind of had already become enamored of the Scope platform and then, way later in my search, realized that the XITE-1 was it's successor and though more expensive would end up working out better for me.

Anyway, I think in terms of hardware it would be best to have a three tier product line up. Something like the Plugiator, something like the Noah and then the XITE-1s. This is important because you could hook younger and amateur musicians who'd later become XITE-1 customers. That's totally "far out in the future" kinds of thinking though. The website thing could be done in time for Christmas and would be easily crowd sourced.

I don't want to be coming off as some new kid who's walking around calling someone's baby ugly. What I am doing is calling your beautiful kid's clothes ugly. It's an easy fix. When I type "best virtual analog hardware" into my search engine, Sonic Core should come up on the first page. It currently does not. Get one into Nick Batt's hands. When you do a search for XITE-1 on Sonicstate this is what you get:

http://www.sonicstate.com/amped/2011/09 ... ad-review/

Yeah, it's about UAD, but scroll down. Someone mentions the XITE-1 in the comments and Nick replies back that he's not heard of it.It's obviously not due to some prejudice against DSP based hardware. It seems more like no one sent Sonicstate one. That is criminal.

[garyb]

oh, SonicState has heard of it...
i believe they've interviewed me personally. several years ago, at NAMM, we had a huge stage and booth running the system live and featuring some top-flight LA musicians. there has been publicity, though it's admittedly not near enough. SonicCore also programs dsp devices for some well-known companies thatr i can't mention. in Europe, Holger's multitrack editing software is a standard in television and radio.

i have certainly contacted SonicState and other publications personally, and i have always received a lukewarm, if not cold response. reviews are for advertisers and those who provide lots of free product, regardless of claims otherwise. SC just can't give stuff away like that. that said, SC HAS sent units to reviewers many times in the past. in any case, i appreciate the heads-up. i offered contact with the reviewer on that thread.

and yes, there IS a cabal of manufacturers. i have personal experience.
it's a full-on freeze-out. part of this is that Creamware's owner ruffled a LOT of feathers back in the day.

the Plugiator was simply the former owner of Creamware making money off of Scope after he ran Creamware into the ground twice. many of SonicCore's problems, like the lack of available capital, are directly related to this. the Plugiator was merely a cut-down version of the Noah, which is the product that ruined Creamware.

as to the website, feel free to mock up your ideas and figure out what you need for your work. i'd be happy to at least show it to Holger. just do it privately, please...

the call for a smaller $1000 or under entry level device is certainly something that has been on the SC wish list. it just hasn't been possible to make it, yet. as Braincell suggested, it might have been better to make the small card first.

[hubird]

So many words.
Is it so hard to see that S/C's presentation/explanation/video's could do better without much costs?

[zerocrossing]

Well we dont need Soniccore to use Eurorack modules but we can use its awesome array of Modular modules and routing to make a Eurorack synth more flexible and less costly.

On Gearslutz I see threads start all the time that are people looking to get into modular systems but afraid of the issues of space, spaghetti and lack of preset memory. Also, afraid of the rabbit hole of G.A.S. that is the world of modulars. I see people plunking down lots of cash for old tech like the Nord G2.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150921253349

Look! You're most of the way to buying an XITE-1D with that price. If you can find a used one, you're there... and you have an audio interface and don't need to run XP to edit your modular.

On KVR, I see threads all the time of people using Reaktor to do amazing things. They're filled with complaints of pegged CPUs and hard to understand authoring environments. Though with Blocks Reaktor 6 does take big steps forward for the less technical. Still, they are monophonic, and an instrument with a fairly decent amount of complexity more or less renders my computer useless for anything else.

Anyway, like I said before, you are not going to take a lot of business from the Muff Wiggler crowd. There will always be something super cool and sexy about a traditional hardware modular set up. However, there are those among us who can't have a large modular set up but would love that level of flexibility, especially if we could achieve similar audio quality. Behold: SCOPE MODULAR! The question I ask is, why did a guy like me not know about it until recently?

because. it costs a lot. of. money. to make people know about things. KVR and Gearslutz have PAID people posting. they trash things that are not on the bandwagon. they are paid to promote and trash. this is a big problem with the internet, false identities. in print, it is also a problem, but on the internet....i'm not even getting into the troll factor, that there are hundreds of people pretending to do important work who do nothing but post on the internet. ask Jimmy(Dawman) about how he used to bust them.

because, NI spends more money on PR than on the product.

what about less than a handful of people at SC is not understood? Scope is a miracle product! it shouldn't exist in this world. it exists because a few people wanted to do it anyway.

Check out my recent thread on Gearslutz:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... te-1d.html

It's very civilized. The moderators there do a good job for the most part. Yeah, there are a few "trollish" replies. (Nexus 2? Really?) For the most part there are only nice things said. There are also critical points made to the other piece of gear I was considering, but thoughtful.

Here's one I starated about it on KVR:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6278913

Not a troll in site. The bulk of what is said is mostly thoughtful opinions based on actual experience. Certainly nothing that disuaded me from buying one.

Anyway, I can't speak about past experiences. Maybe at one point or on other forums, trolls were worse. Speaking of how I see those two forums, actual trolling is very low, and in fact, I often see people with honest negative opinions getting called out unfairly as trolls. But sure, there are trolls and always will be. The other side of that coin is the fanbois, and while some may be paid, a lot are not. As you can see from my forum posts, a fair amount of people came out to praise S|C/Scope.

The other thing is that people are HUNGRY for stuff, even high end stuff. Even DSP based stuff. Look at Nord's current offerings. There are pages and pages about it and frankly it sounds OK, but nothing to write home about compared to the quality of the Scope synths. Those things are venturing into the XITE-1D territory in terms of price.

...but we're talking about crowd sourcing. If everyone here in this thread just did a great demo and a paragraph about how it was made and what plug ins were used, and that went onto an embedded Soundcloud player on Sonic Core's homepage, that would be huge. It would have to be curated though, as not all demos are worthy of being on the main page. Then, each of those demos would get posted on a forum of the user's choice with a little bit about how the demo was made. Would it get trolled? Yeah, probably, but what is way worse than being trolled is to not be being talked about at all.

[garyb]

So many words.
Is it so hard to see that S/C's presentation/explanation/video's could do better without much costs?

yes.

[garyb]

...but we're talking about crowd sourcing. If everyone here in this thread just did a great demo and a paragraph about how it was made and what plug ins were used, and that went onto an embedded Soundcloud player on Sonic Core's homepage, that would be huge. It would have to be curated though, as not all demos are worthy of being on the main page. Then, each of those demos would get posted on a forum of the user's choice with a little bit about how the demo was made. Would it get trolled? Yeah, probably, but what is way worse than being trolled is to not be being talked about at all.

sure! great idea! post those demos!

[zerocrossing]

oh, SonicState has heard of it...
i believe they've interviewed me personally. several years ago, at NAMM, we had a huge stage and booth running the system live and featuring some top-flight LA musicians. there has been publicity, though it's admittedly not near enough. SonicCore also programs dsp devices for some well-known companies thatr i can't mention. in Europe, Holger's multitrack editing software is a standard in television and radio.

i have certainly contacted SonicState and other publications personally, and i have always received a lukewarm, if not cold response. reviews are for advertisers and those who provide lots of free product, regardless of claims otherwise. SC just can't give stuff away like that. that said, SC HAS sent units to reviewers many times in the past. in any case, i appreciate the heads-up. i offered contact with the reviewer on that thread.

and yes, there IS a cabal of manufacturers. i have personal experience.
it's a full-on freeze-out. part of this is that Creamware's owner ruffled a LOT of feathers back in the day.

the Plugiator was simply the former owner of Creamware making money off of Scope after he ran Creamware into the ground twice. many of SonicCore's problems, like the lack of available capital, are directly related to this. the Plugiator was merely a cut-down version of the Noah, which is the product that ruined Creamware.

as to the website, feel free to mock up your ideas and figure out what you need for your work. i'd be happy to at least show it to Holger. just do it privately, please...

the call for a smaller $1000 or under entry level device is certainly something that has been on the SC wish list. it just hasn't been possible to make it, yet. as Braincell suggested, it might have been better to make the small card first.

Hm, OK. I was not aware that Sonic Core was so "up against it." I honestly wonder how some manufacturers seem to do no wrong to the press. I've yet to see a single mention of how bad the Prophet 12 can sound. There is no harmonic content above 8khz in the sawtooth, yet this is never mentioned. I brought up Sonicstate because most of what I see from them seems pretty honest and doesn't always put the developers in the best light. Recently I caught their vodcast where Marc Doty is tearing Roland a new output over the release of their "boutique" instruments. Speaking of which, if you buy one of each of those, you've spent a thousand dollars on 4 voices of fairly decent emulations and tiny cramped interfaces. For 2.5 times that you can have a 1D (why aren't the 1Ds available by the way?) which I believe would run rings around that junk in every conceivable way.

I've got to put my head into getting an illustration project out the door, but as soon as that's done I'll start doing some mock ups for a new Sonic Core site. The good news is the look and feel of it is simple but fine, and that's usually the thing that takes up the most time. (everyone wants their look to win) 90% of what is currently wrong with it is that graphic. It does not really make one want to explore farther and it doesn't really explain the product either.

[tlaskows]

I don't usually go on Sonic State. The gear reviews are pretty useless. People give it a 0 rating without even actually trying out the gear... umm yeah. It used to be fun back in the late 90s. How the hell was I able to find Creamware back in the day, if no one knows it even exists. It doesn't make any sense! I think at the time I had just 1 Pro Card with some synths that are included now at no extra charge. I think it was the Minimax and Pro-12. I definitely had the Six String. Also, at the same time I had a PoCo with the Virus. Take a guess which one I got rid first...

-Tom

[garyb]

zerocrossing, i'm glad to see that your posts on those other forums were so nicely responded to. that's heartening.
actually, i know most of those guys, they have been here, too....

it's good to see that the passage of time fixes some problems.

[Sounddesigner]

Check out my recent thread on Gearslutz:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... te-1d.html

It's very civilized. The moderators there do a good job for the most part. Yeah, there are a few "trollish" replies. (Nexus 2? Really?) For the most part there are only nice things said. There are also critical points made to the other piece of gear I was considering, but thoughtful.

Here's one I starated about it on KVR:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6278913

Not a troll in site. The bulk of what is said is mostly thoughtful opinions based on actual experience. Certainly nothing that disuaded me from buying one.

There was a known troll in your KVR thread, it's just that person didn't fully reveal himself and mission to you. Trolls aren't always obvious and you have to know their history to figure them out sometimes. They masquerade their posts as fair honest opinions but when you study them and their posts history and if you know enough about SCOPE to recognize lies you can see them for what they are, otherwise instantly recognizing them as trolls can be difficult. But one thing is for sure they make a point to get into EVERY SCOPE thread they see to paint a doom-and-gloom picture of SCOPE. The guy at KVR in your thread I'm talking about is Kmonkey. Just because trolls aren't obvious doesn't mean they aren't there. Kmonkey's Gearslutz name is Mpod and I dealt with his trolling many times and he keeps coming. I started a thread awhile back on Gearslutz and like before he immediately derailed it with exaggerations, lies and even truths that are malicious over-complaints (following SCOPE users around derailing their threads with a laundry list of complaints/attack-points to be malicious), I explained his history and why he was exaggerating/lieing/overcomplaining in every SCOPE thread he can and the Moderator was able to tell he was cleverly trolling and deleted his posts and banned him from that thread. Afterwards mpod PM'd me cause he knew I had exposed his clever trolling for what it was clearly to the moderators, he then told me he would stay out of SCOPE threads. Clearly that promise was no good cause he's in your KVR thread . I guess he figure KVR moderators don't know his agenda like Gearslutz and that I don't know his other user-name. Here's a link to the Gearslutz thread, all the negative posts have been deleted - https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product ... s-dna.html

The moderator wrote "knock it off" when giving the reason for deleting mpod's thread and than banned him from the thread, he stated in the pm to me he couldn't even see the thread anymore. You won't get the full story at the GS thread link above cause his posts and my counter-posts were deleted but you can get enough. I still have the pm from mpod (A.K.A Kmonkey) where he stated he wouldn't comment on SCOPE again, but looking at your KVR thread shows that this was obviously another lie.


Just because it isn't obvious doesn't mean trolls aren't there at work painting a bad gloom and doom picture. And when opportunity comes there negative message gets stronger.

I and others are and have always been on forums spreading the good news on SCOPE for many years. I've gotten in those Modular threads on Gearslutz you speak of and more. Everybody don't want to be a lightning rod like the few of us who do spread the word on forums about SCOPE and I understand why cause sometimes I am silent to cause I'm not in the mood for long arguments/fights.The trolling has been so serious at times that it scares some people off and makes them not bother mentioning SCOPE on forums cause it's not worth many hours of argueing with trolls. A one line attack from trolls can take many paragraphs to counter them and explain why they are lies/exaggerations/maliciously over-complaining. Making the case against a troll isn't always simple and the more clever a troll is the wordier you have to be to make the case against them. I've done this many times and have learned that no matter how many times you prove some people to be bogus their numbers don't decrease and they keep coming. Trolls don't have to be as wordy and they like terrorist know their job is easier than yours. We are not arm-chair soldiers/philosophers/Advertisers/etc we speak from first-hand experience.

Look how wordy I have to be just to explain this to you.


EDITED

[tlaskows]

Weir Al said in his 1999 song All About The Pentiums that he never feeds trolls...

I think that's a good advice. I stop arguing very quickly and just say something like yes you are right and I am wrong. Even if they've never even used Scope or know what it is. If you keep feeding them, they will not stop... It's really sad.

-Tom

[Sounddesigner]

Get one into Nick Batt's hands. When you do a search for XITE-1 on Sonicstate this is what you get:

http://www.sonicstate.com/amped/2011/09 ... ad-review/

Yeah, it's about UAD, but scroll down. Someone mentions the XITE-1 in the comments and Nick replies back that he's not heard of it.It's obviously not due to some prejudice against DSP based hardware. It seems more like no one sent Sonicstate one. That is criminal.

Sonic State definitely knows about XITE-1 and I have proof. Years ago when Apollo was released Sonic State reviewed it and in their review they simply repeated all the hype and even lies UA put out in their marketing rather than truly knowing about tracking threw plugins with digital gear and the many products on the market available for this. They talked as if Apollo was revolutionary because it allowed for tracking at ultra-low latency with plugins and that it was the only thing out here that can do this (hello, what about industry standard Protools TDM?, SCOPE, etc?. Well Dante from this forum called him out, he eventually got silent and disappeared. It was a situation were the guy at Sonic State obviously didn't know much about Tracking and Digital Audio gear and was just repeating Marketing BS. Protools, SCOPE, Soundscape, many Native interfaces, Metric Halo and tons of other gear have been on the market for decades and always allowed for this. Below is Sonic States statement to Dante and the link to the video with the bogus claim and under the video there are posts with Dante confronting the Sonic State worker.

Quote from Sonic State regarding Apollo: ""the implication is that it runs through the plugins from the input to the output in under 1.4ms of latency... there is no other unit that does that... simply because there is no other unit that HAS plugins in it. The closest you can get with another unit is no latency into your DAW, insert a plugin that has some latency, and then output back to your interface, which COULD be low latency, but not as low as the hardware doing it immediately..." END QUOTE

Here's the link to the bogus Video review from Sonic State and the conversation below the video Paul Dante had with Sonic State - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5JCh4b ... ata_player

I think the guy at Sonic State went back and re-edited his post and video but in the video he still refers to what Apollo is doing as special. but you still have the video, Paul Dante's post confronting him and still one of his reply post that makes no sense " I know its possible through the computer, but not only through the unit. I was very specific about that, unless you know something UA and I dont?".

fully expand the comments section.

After Dante busted him out I'm fairly certain he went back and re-edited his posts. But we still have the two quotes above the first is here only on Planetz its just not at Youtube anymore along with another I vaguely remember. But enough is still present cause he could not fully cover his tracks. One thing is for sure he knows of XITE-1 cause he was told that day about it.

Here's a link to the PlanetZ thread about Sonic States review of Apollo from wich it all started - http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=31179

Sonic State was told about XITE-1 when they were busy perpetuating a obvious lie and marketing BS from UA. It really showed that the guy at Sonic State didn't truly know much about audio gear and that he was simply paroting what UA had previously stated.

EDITED

[hubird]

thanks for the research

[zerocrossing]

Check out my recent thread on Gearslutz:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... te-1d.html

It's very civilized. The moderators there do a good job for the most part. Yeah, there are a few "trollish" replies. (Nexus 2? Really?) For the most part there are only nice things said. There are also critical points made to the other piece of gear I was considering, but thoughtful.

Here's one I starated about it on KVR:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6278913

Not a troll in site. The bulk of what is said is mostly thoughtful opinions based on actual experience. Certainly nothing that disuaded me from buying one.

There was a known troll in your KVR thread, it's just that person didn't fully reveal himself and mission to you. Trolls aren't always obvious and you have to know their history to figure them out sometimes. They masquerade their posts as fair honest opinions but when you study them and their posts history and if you know enough about SCOPE to recognize lies you can see them for what they are, otherwise instantly recognizing them as trolls can be difficult. But one thing is for sure they make a point to get into EVERY SCOPE thread they see to paint a doom-and-gloom picture of SCOPE. The guy at KVR in your thread I'm talking about is Kmonkey. Just because trolls aren't obvious doesn't mean they aren't there. Kmonkey's Gearslutz name is Mpod and I dealt with his trolling many times and he keeps coming. I started a thread awhile back on Gearslutz and like before he immediately derailed it with exaggerations, lies and even truths that are malicious over-complaints (following SCOPE users around derailing their threads with a laundry list of complaints/attack-points to be malicious), I explained his history and why he was exaggerating/lieing/overcomplaining in every SCOPE thread he can and the Moderator was able to tell he was cleverly trolling and deleted his posts and banned him from that thread. Afterwards mpod PM'd me cause he knew I had exposed his clever trolling for what it was clearly to the moderators, he then told me he would stay out of SCOPE threads. Clearly that promise was no good cause he's in your KVR thread . I guess he figure KVR moderators don't know his agenda like Gearslutz and that I don't know his other user-name. Here's a link to the Gearslutz thread, all the negative posts have been deleted - https://www.gearslutz.com/board/product ... s-dna.html

The moderator wrote "knock it off" when giving the reason for deleting mpod's thread and than banned him from the thread, he stated in the pm to me he couldn't even see the thread anymore. You won't get the full story at the GS thread link above cause his posts and my counter-posts were deleted but you can get enough. I still have the pm from mpod (A.K.A Kmonkey) where he stated he wouldn't comment on SCOPE again, but looking at your KVR thread shows that this was obviously another lie.


Just because it isn't obvious doesn't mean trolls aren't there at work painting a bad gloom and doom picture. And when opportunity comes there negative message gets stronger.

I and others are and have always been on forums spreading the good news on SCOPE for many years. I've gotten in those Modular threads on Gearslutz you speak of and more. Everybody don't want to be a lightning rod like the few of us who do spread the word on forums about SCOPE and I understand why cause sometimes I am silent to cause I'm not in the mood for long arguments/fights.The trolling has been so serious at times that it scares some people off and makes them not bother mentioning SCOPE on forums cause it's not worth many hours of argueing with trolls. A one line attack from trolls can take many paragraphs to counter them and explain why they are lies/exaggerations/maliciously over-complaining. Making the case against a troll isn't always simple and the more clever a troll is the wordier you have to be to make the case against them. I've done this many times and have learned that no matter how many times you prove some people to be bogus their numbers don't decrease and they keep coming. Trolls don't have to be as wordy and they like terrorist know their job is easier than yours. We are not arm-chair soldiers/philosophers/Advertisers/etc we speak from first-hand experience.

Look how wordy I have to be just to explain this to you.


EDITED

I did actually read that entire thread when I was in my research phase. Of course, I had no idea of the content of those deleted posts. I went back and looked at what Kmonkey said in my thread and most of it seemed fine. He does mention that he misses his Scope system.

One thing I've noticed a bit is that users here are a bit like proud parents. That's good, but I do see that when some pretty fair and balanced things have been said in criticism of Sonic Core, there's a lot of push back. What things did Kmonkey say that were not factual? Sounds to me like he was trying to run things at a higher sample rate than his system was able to do. That's how I took his post. He was kind of right about the fact that there is not a lot of development for the platform. I could see why that would be important to some, though it's less important to me because it seems as if you felt something was missing it would just be a matter of building it in Modular. Even now there is a thread about there being a lack of wavetable synth with user importable wavetables. That is actually something I'm interested in, though it's not like I don't have tools that do that. In a sense I think of the XITE to lighten the load to the CPU and add effects to native plugs.