Sonic-Core & Kickstarter

[tlaskows]

I don't think I've ever read the manual and I don't have trouble using Scope after some hints from this forum. I wouldn't say it's rocket science.

-Tom

[garyb]

exactly. the studio is what it is, even after the advent of computers.

[hubird]

All agreed, especially your former long post.
Personally that's why I chose for mac: less possibilities to choose from, less problems.

The analogy of Scope to a real studio is perfect, it's even educating in it's own.

But don't you think Scope needs an overhaul before one can even think of rolling out a campaign?

Things like preset-select directly from the effect's or synth's GUI, and having it's name visible?
The preset windows are worst anyway.
Or a better layout of the sample rate settings window, with consequent 'column/row behaviour'.
Or making 'save as...' also change the project name in the life bar, which should be visible all the way anyway.

I know, some things could be called cosmetic changes which shouldn't bother professionals, and Tom reminded us to deeper questions, but we are not talking about us, but how to attract a new generation of Scope users.

I doesn't sell so comfortably when you have to explain'that some routines indeed are a bit clumsy but what you get is really top notch'.
And then there's always the follow-up question: ok, so Scope is actually very good, by the way, is the company behind Scope occasionally planning a gui update or something?
It looks like the answer is: the system is still expandable to keep it updated to new developments, but the project gui is legacy.

To me, anything kickstarter would've to start with a Gui update, that might be clear

[garyb]

those changes would certainly be nice.

i know very little about the real challenges, but still it's considerably more than most users. let's just say, there's still plenty of hope, but everything is pipe dreams right now. i'm thankful that there is still work getting done, even if it's excruciatingly slow. i would think that many of these problems will be addressed in the new version of Scope. i don't know that the preset windows would be changed. i suspect that there is a way for developers to embed the presets into the devices, but no one has thought about this yet, i think.

actually, i think there are many excellent reasons that a young person who was really interested in music production and audio or an older person, for that matter, would be more than fortunate to run into Scope. i'm sure that they, like i did, would find the system to be a god-send. the things that Scope will do are never out of style, if AUDIO is the point. if COMPUTERS are the reason for being, maybe not so much, but if computers are a big part of the studio by necessity, then Scope is what you might want, again if audio is the point.

i use Scope because the sound is superlative. this won't change no matter what other fancy programs get made. computers come and go, but my Scope cards stay around. the XITE is no different, just more powerful for less money. the only problem is connecting the customers to the company. there is no need to create a customer base, it already exists, and just has absolutely no idea that Scope is a viable option.

[hubird]

'Can I connect my iPad to it?', would be a first question.
Does it see Audiobus through USB?

[garyb]

no, but there are plenty of other ways to make the connection.
the toys need to conform to the studio or they're just toys, no matter how cool they are.
fortunately, they usually do. any competent engineer can make it work effectively, pro or hobbyist.

it's backwards to expect a whole studio to be based around what is convenient for a casual piece of gear.

S|C doesn't need to go after every last possible customer. they only need the ones who love audio and audio gear. it's become such a fashion show and the only people that benefits are the big software companies and parts manufacturers of PCs. it doesn't really do much for artists and engineers except to drain wallets and provide a distraction.

if connection to an ipad is the primary consideration, then Scopes true value won't be useful or interesting to the user.

i DO appreciate being able to read all these ideas...

[Nestor]

I definitely am one of those guys Gary describers, totally concerned about “audio quality”, “routing” and “studio possibilities”, that’s why this system is perfect for me and my work, and there is no “time” involved in here, yes exactly, because quality 20 years ago is quality today and will be quality tomorrow as well, its true.

I remember a dear member of planet z whose nickname was “Spirit” ¿remember him? He was an advocate of Acid Pro, he was crazy about it. He would buy everything, everything! All new synths, plugins, etc., from Scope and VST… but after about two days, he was frustrated again, and needed to buy something else. I once asked him why he would concentrate so much in new toys instate of making music, well…, we had back then a long discussion and points of view were spread all over the place. I disagreed with him totally All my respects to him, a very nice guy, but he represented one of those satellite guys that come close to music, but are not really musicians, full of greed for new products, a shop machine. If someone like this gets into Scope, it’s going to be frustrated, of course, because this is a serious platform, but if a musician gets into Scope, he will be crystallizing his dream of an almost perfect studio at home.

Let’s compare Scope to a tractor in the countryside, no other civil vehicle will allow you to pull so much strength, so irreplaceable in many ways. Now, if you are a guy that likes to get into town and stop in every corner looking for some fun, a tractor will not do the trick, it will let you down.

I do not deny the existence, nowadays, of excellent systems for different purposes, or different kind of satellite musicians, but for serious musicians, scope is truly a blessing coming from the stars.

[tlaskows]

Yes, the GAS is always strong. But now I only have a Korg M3 hardware, Korg Legacy Collection and some ENGL amp bundle. Plus some UAD stuff and Scope of course...

-Tom

[dante]

To me sonically, Scope is already there. Its mainly in workflow of use and sales where we can find the most potential for improvements and catch-up to Native.

Hardware wise, some re-engineering at hardware level of the full XITE-1 to even out inter DSP farm latency might help as well, and maybe MADI.

[yayajohn]

A good discussion on improvements here no doubt. Personally I would love to see even just a few of them come to fruition. Reality-wise I think that we won't see most of them judging by the past. Doubtful that we would even come to agree what would come first or second or third or even what would be included on the list. Prob best to just let Holger decide as he has done these past 8 years as they are still here and running strong. Is that longer than Creamware went btwn insolvencies?
If you want to help then buy Sonic Core products.
-buy a used computer instead of new or don't upgrade your existing one for 5+yrs....put your money in a jar marked Xite-1
-stop buying Native when there is an equivalent Scope product.....put your money in a jar marked Xite-1
-lie, beg, cheat, and steal to obtain money for your Xite-1.......put the money in a jar marked Xite-1
-don't buy used cards.......put your money in a jar marked Xite-1
(-use some of that money to support our 3rd party vendors........they need to eat too and we have lost too many already)
-When you have enough money, purchase your most awesome brand spanking new Xite-1 from the Sonic Core shop.....start putting your money in a jar marked Xite-2

Cheers to all Scopers

[ronnie]

To me sonically, Scope is already there. Its mainly in workflow of use and sales where we can find the most potential for improvements and catch-up to Native.

Hardware wise, some re-engineering at hardware level of the full XITE-1 to even out inter DSP farm latency might help as well, and maybe MADI.

This needs some detail and clarification regarding actual products.

And with the right capitalization and marketing S|C could be a the major player it deserves to be.

But apparently these sadly have been and remain show-stoppers. How do we get over these hurdles? If not KickStarter then Who, What and Where? When is always now!

Let's say we do all "chip in" somehow, how much will it cost?, how many users need to ante up? What's the target number?

Do we all get equity or shares in a private offering to finance this move? So if the mythical 30,000 users (plus?) puts up, say, $100 each = $3 million (or maybe it's really somewhere around 3,000 users for $300,000 - or less?). What can the existing users expect for a return? A $100 future credit or take a risk on a piece of the action? Could S|C become a "grass roots user owned" corporation... interesting thought.

[ronnie]

Just a nudge up to keep this percolating.....

[ronnie]

Thought this post belongs here too:

Regards a Scope powered DAW, there was a project called Parseq a few years back to that end which never saw the light of day. Maybe I'm wrong and it will come back, but I always thought that may be too ambitious.

So I have suggested a Mixbus scenario which would just be a multitrack playback and mix system but with DSP plugin channel strip components which could have classic alternatives sold in the SC shop. The summing engine could be either native or DSP

I guess this would be a bit like bringing back XTC mode but in a more focused manner with an SC proprietary plugin wrapper replacing the VST baggage/overhead.

It's a tough call to take on and reinvent the complete DAW market - too many years head start on functionality. But a Scope powered Stem Mixer would be a lot lighter on development requirements. And if it was a partnership with Harrison, even better - as getting a name on board we have seen helps plugin sales immensely.

So there's an opportunity to create/capture a boutique mix market which could become even wider - and if sales are good - add functionality by demand - such as an interchange file format or even streaming or automation etc.

[garyb]

yeah, the guy making Parseq gave up.

i don't know why people want to cripple Scope just to only use a sequencer. an RME card is better for that...

[SilverScoper]

Looks like UAD liked the Mixbus idea : http://harrisonconsoles.com/site/uad32c.html

But I'm sure there's more scope than that in the idea

[the19thbear]

I have been away from the scope platform for a couple of years now. Some things i miss, some things i dont miss.
This is just my opinion, but might useful anyway;)

-I very much miss the modular nature of scope. In stead of having to buy real hardware mixers to do cue mixes etc, i could have everything in the virtual world. Cheaper and more flexible.

-I miss some of the reverbs/delays, but not comps/eqs etc. But that may just be personal taste.

-Even though i am a synth geek i dont really miss any of the synths. I think the native world has great sound and flexibility.

-I dont miss the constant problems and little weird things about scope. There will always be problems with every software, but the SC platform always seemed a little more buggy/non compatible than other audio solutions. On the flipside, the scope card does a lot more than many other cards.


What i think SC need in order to have succes:

-A lower entry DSP card. A dirt cheap 2 DSP unit (or whatever). People need to get hooked, and people wont buy a 45 DSP solution just to try it out. Many people are "playing" with music, not really making a living of making music. I think a lot of money can be found from people playing around with audio and in the long run getting hooked. Thats why we need a low entry dsp card.
Heck i woudl even get one just to play around;)

-MAC support. Here where I live (Denmark) and the coutries around, most professionals use mac. I dont care or want to discuss if that is rigth or wrong, but that is just how it is.
-Good clean videos of the product. They never had that. This is a HUGE point IMO.
-Good clean "in the studio with scope" videos. VERY important.
-A much more transparent roadmap. I always felt that i didnt know where scope was going. You would get a mail that read something like "big things are happening! WOW! And then nothing happened. No word no anything. A roadmap that can be accesed from the homepage would be essential. Especially if a crwodfuning thing is done.

-A USB C type/thunderbolt connector for the cards. And if possible allow for swapping of the actual port to another type, so you can use the product with future connections (like on the big UAD soundcards).

-Highlight what is possible ONLY with DSP. No latency mixing/tracking etc. Flexible routing without latency etc. And then on top of that you get many other cool things that can be done in the native world. Seperate scope from the rest of the world, by pointing at what makes it different.

Just my thoughts:)

[tlaskows]

Mr. Bear has some good points. A lot of people do it on the side just for fun and to keep busy.

A 2 DSP card would be almost equal to the power of 1 old 14 DSP card (without optimization). That's enough to get people started. Heck, UAD even sells a single DSP cards.

-Tom

[wouterz]

....
Things like preset-select directly from the effect's or synth's GUI, and having it's name visible?
....

Like this.

source: http://icon.jp/archives/1106

[jhulk]

in house subscribe from scope users will benefit the company and existing users

with the money a and r could be done and advancements in programming

video content done buy actual long time users as they know the program and have used it extensively they can show whats best

road map on where they are on a monthly basis on improvements old creamware bugs that are being sorted out so they work for sonicore software

video content of modular creation so that people can see what they can achieve with modular

a wiki created as user base as all things scope like what bcmodular is doing explaining all short cuts and best ways of doing things dsp placement for xite
so that users can quickly go to there problem and a source for overcoming that problem

pros and cons going 64bit so tat people who dont use samplers or dont need it can know which os to choose and for those who want samplers know to avoid 64bit
this also helps those who use there scope system as there main daw and music making machine or like me use my 2 scope systems as external devices and they only contain scope software only and a few vsti through vstihost that they use through scope as there is no mac software we just add the scope through adat
which i have 2 system connected and i use the high cpu vsti plugs through scope so not to load the mac thats the uhe and auturia plugs that are cpu intensive
because i have no daw on them or other processes i can have full poly on them through scope with out glitching via asio and vstihost

xite4live doing videos about doing live work with scope

as for ipad bcmodular is working on osc control so ipad connectivity is already being done

would like to see open control for existing scope synths so that 14bit cc and even osc 32bit control and modular outputs like john bowens synths so that you could use what filter you wanted give bigger palette of sound creation

[Riggar]

Interesting post. I am one of those casual bedroom music people.
I've had Pulsar cards from the get go and still today it's the most expensive individual purchase I've ever made in the home studio.

I see that the answer to a Scope future has already been stated here ... if (and perhaps it's big if) ones want a wider, larger, developing community underpinned by solid hardware then you have hit the critical mass. Anyone ever involved in sales, will know this is where it's at.

The top of the pyramid is there - professional gear for ... professionals (or people with a more dedication and/or money than I) BUT ...

... this thing desperately needs and entry point to support the lower end of the pyramid. Mass sales here would inject a whole new generation of wouldbe musicos. We need 'em.

And here you could be imaginative - different starter sets ups for different requirements. Synths? Mixing? Effects? And why not exploit what hundreds of old cards are being used for, the central in/out virtual center of the small studio - let's have a connect anything to anything.

Good luck - I would like to see this move forward

btw the way - still using the cards to record live - not bad for 16 year old kit!