A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

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Sounddesigner
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A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by Sounddesigner »

A Revolution is comming are the words of Native Instruments regarding their upcomming synth release. It sounds like it has a little body to the sound compared to their other synths but i've yet to hear anything special. I bet you'll need a 5GHZ 8-Core CPU to run it :lol: . Here's links to video and audio demo's-


http://www.native-instruments.com/en/sp ... newsletter


https://soundcloud.com/#nativeinstrumen ... -is-coming

Marketing blurp: "One synth to rule them all. Years of meticulous research and the latest in cutting-edge DSP technology combine to deliver a synth with teeth."
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ShogunSpy
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by ShogunSpy »

I know what a load of crap !! Now that they are giving massive away I guess the need a new flag ship synth
jksuperstar
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by jksuperstar »

They say "Years of meticulous research and the latest in cutting-edge DSP technology", so maybe it's a hardware synth?
petal
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by petal »

It's not a hardware synth according to Peter Kirn - Create Digital Music: "I did clear with NI the ability to say what it isn’t, just in case this video is unclear. This does not involve hardware. It’s a new software instrument. Beyond that, I’ll leave you to watch the video, which I must say includes some clever visual effects."

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/02/n ... d-samples/
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by dawman »

Years of training teenagers on how to run their business for minimum wage, and years of weak ass Kazoos.... :P
I honestly do always give them a listen, and this strarted with Generator way back in '98, so 15 years later and they still suck cock..... :lol:
Just build one, and grow some Balls like Bowen, Smith, Oberheim, Buchla and Studio Electronics. Otherwise, stop emailing me with weak shit... :x

Sadly I stay subscribed since I like Kontakt. So I suppose I can suffer through another overprocessed laptop Microsoft synth. Apple synths sound better though... :roll:
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by kensuguro »

Some sort of PR strategy they got there..
1. scream revolution!
2. distort the hell out of boring sounds in demo reel
3. confuse listener

wait.. revolution? where? what? I guess it's for people who's memory of synths only goes back 5 years. Like for 8-10 year olds. So watch out Mattel. Watch out Tyco. Lego, you better go for a soul search. A revolution is coming to the pre-pube world. Virtual Synthetic Toys. The new era of VST. Hmm.. virtual Synthetic Toys.. that almost sounds adult.

All this time I thought makers like U-he, Tone2 had raised the bar for the VST world...

Check this demo out
https://soundcloud.com/nativeinstrument ... t-teaser-1
Is this bass supposed to sound fat? Because fat moog style basses were achieved many, many times before... So I guess not being fat is the revolutionary part. And also the total lack of funk in the playing. Totally revolutionary, agreed. (if one of y'all did the demo, I sincerely apologize for being blunt) Ugh, the art of playing moog bass totally lost.. such a disappointment. It almost makes me blue. Jimmy, can you do a free workshop for this fella? I'm sure just a 2hr session would make a world of difference.
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by dawman »

Actually I was hoping these guys could teach me how to use a QWERTY.
I can't play with such accuracy on those tiny keys so I commend them for those skills.

But honestly, is NI going to keep churning out more cheese and dairy products...?
At least break down and build some hardware, I grow weary from punishing these laptops synths at soundchecks. There's just no honor in it.
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by Sounddesigner »

ShogunSpy wrote:I know what a load of crap !! Now that they are giving massive away I guess the need a new flag ship synth

I did'nt know they started giving Massive away for free now. I doubt i'd even want it as freeware. I did like Massive more than most Native synths when it first came out long ago but those were desparate times. All Native Platform synths sound below standard and crappy in one way or another to me (but Tone2 synths are unique and compliment SCOPE well IMO, they are usefull for several reasons to me) and Native Instruments synths are the epitome of the Native Platform sound. I've never understood the hype and excitement over NI synths and i always felt that there was freeware and DAW synths that sounded as good and now even better than NI synths. Rapture is free with Sonar X2 and Terrell is free etc, so why waste money on NI or any other Native commercial synths when they won't sound better or atleast better in any meaningful way than DAW synths/freeware is my thinking. Just my personal taste ofcourse, to each their own.
Last edited by Sounddesigner on Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by the19thbear »

I think NI is popular because of reaktor and kontakt etc. Personally I dont like the sound of massive, but the user interface is stellar imo!. Its really easy to modulate tons from different sources without getting lots of virtual cables in the way of the gui.
As said before here on Z i think all the NI synths have the same sound to them, its not a bad thing, its just a thing.. the RAZOR package for reaktor is the only synth i have heard so far, that sounds great, is *not* anoter analog emulation but still sounds organic somehow..
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by kensuguro »

Actually I was hoping these guys could teach me how to use a QWERTY.
lol, could be true.. or maybe they played the whole thing with the mouse on the on screen virtual keyboard. Now THAT would be impressive.
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by dawman »

My kid does wonders with FLS 10 on a laptop, he is so spoiled though. Doing good in everything too, so I offered to buy an NI Mashine since it seems pretty cool and the little jerk said nah, thanks Pa, but I'll take an Akai MPC......
He's killing me..

FWIW, I can jam pretty good on Sharcs BC Keys. I asked him to make it polyphonic I was doing so good.... :wink:
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by Eanna »

the19thbear wrote:Its really easy to modulate tons from different sources without getting lots of virtual cables in the way of the gui.
Totally agree. A good synth sounds comes not just from good quality oscillators and filters, it comes from invention in how the patch is created - modulations, stacking, performance.

I also agree, hardware-based DSP seem to do the sound quality thing better, for whatever reason... But their ease of use, integration with modern DAWs, modulation and automation tricks, are not as easy as sitting on a couch in your living room in front of a fire on a laptop dreaming up creative uses for ideas in soft synths with a chain of vst effects, getting things done quickly.

On the other side of the scale, you have Modular setups. Guess they score high on the sound quality and modulation opportunities, but suffer in the workflow and time-to-create turnaround of new work. That, and the aforementioned wires...

Guess the semi-modulars in Scope - like SpaceF's synths in BlackBox, Mr. Bowen's RedDwarf - is a compromise. But looking at posts here on the Z, where automation and real-time performance controls of hardware synths from modern DAWs like Ableton are not obvious, then you have to ask yourself, is ease of use worth something? The amount of money spent on soft synths suggests that the tradeoff is worth it, and not just for some musicians - a whole bunch of the world of musicians!

And there's little doubt but that some modern takes on VSTi's are definitely of a high quality -from FXpansion's Synth Squad, to u-he's Diva, to some of the Tone2 stuff, to Waldorf Largo, to freebies like Synth1, TAL Bassline, and Dreamstation DXi - their raw sound is as good as plenty of hardware that people spent good money on over the years.

The NI marketeers, well, I don't beat them up for it - it's a capitalist-driven venture, and they are supporting the shareholders. Hype when something is only around the corner is a powerful thing... as powerful for a four-year-old as it is for a forty-four year old... If the synth isn't as good as the best of available DSP, then that's fine by me! You gotta take marketing with a pinch of salt sometimes...

For some, the ease-of-use and multiple-instances you get from soft synthesis is worth their money, especially when things are rendered down to MP3 these days anyway. For others, nothing but the best of DSP or analog will suffice. And Scope, well, it integrates the infrastructure supporting the DAW with my external rig like nothing else, gives me multiple instances of high quality DSP synths and effects, and one mother of a Modular too, with top-notch freebies to boot. That's the magic of Scope.

Me, I'm glad I have options... I'm an amateur enthusiast who feels very lucky to have hardware synths and effects, analog and DSP, totally getting off on how wonderful a simple chain of hardware can sound, and equally enjoy some very usable soft synths that participate as they do so integrally in my DAW environment, that allows me sequence and automate quickly from the comfort of my living room.

And sometimes, just I hammer my bass guitar thru a 30W amp for a few hours..... :-)
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by faxinadu »

much love eanna, great post agreed with all
Scope, Android, Web, PC Plugins and Sounds:
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by petal »

Eanna wrote:
I also agree, hardware-based DSP seem to do the sound quality thing better, for whatever reason... But their ease of use, integration with modern DAWs, modulation and automation tricks, are not as easy as sitting on a couch in your living room in front of a fire on a laptop dreaming up creative uses for ideas in soft synths with a chain of vst effects, getting things done quickly.
Amen!
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by Eanna »

Guess all I'm saying is that I wish DAW Manufacturers would embrace external synths better.. Looking at you, Ableton - no NRPN or Sysex, difficult/non-native CC control, woeful master midi clock for syncing your external gear.

For Ableton, Max4Live provides useful solutions for CC control of external Midi gear (thank you Tau!!), as does the excellent Macrobat and the simple CCRider VSTi (both of which allow you to create Macros that will send CC to external Midi gear, and Macros are ripe for automation), and there are some clocking solutions out there, but a host like Ableton must surely prioritise this effort to clean up its Midi act.
I know, it was initially designed as a live ITB sample-playback performance tool, but it's time to grow up! Time to embrace a 30-year-old ubiquitous standard of the music industry! A 1985 8-bit 512k Atari ST had all the Midi features that Ableton is lacking... that's progress? Ammm, no...

I guess there's another point to make here too - where soft synths win on Sequencer integration and more, nothing beats my hardware synths, not just for their sound, but for the simplicity and tactility of creating patches. A knobby synth is a joy!
Me, I don't connect with deep levels of menus on small LCD screens on hardware synths... I easily get lost, and I can't immediately 'see' my patch, like I can with soft synths, Scope instruments, or knobby hardware. Practise makes perfect too I guess... but life's also too short for that... ;-)
Therefore, I do wish that all hardware manufacturers would produce a VST/AU plugin responsible for controlling their hardware from the context of a DAW. At a minimum, it will present the synth architecture visually (I understand what's in Waldorf Largo by looking at the computer screen far more easily that I can understand what's in Waldorf Blofeld looking at the LCD screen: even tho they're essentially the same architecture, I'm far more productive with Largo than I am with Blofeld), and it brings with it the ability to provide easy automation/remote modulation techniques of the (expensive) hardware you've purchased, a-la the "Virus TI" approach, which some people really dig. It's very easy to write such VSTs! Since it is simply forwarding Midi CC data to the hardware...

Ctrlr is a solution for this, but I find it cludgy, cluttered and occasionally slow. I understand that Ctrlr has its place for older synths during whose production run the VST spec did not exist... but modern synths have no good reason for not providing a VST Control solution... Thinking here of the modern synths with which I have experience: DSI Synths and Minitaur - both of which supply (buggy) standalone control software, and in DSI's case it costs money - and Waldorf Blofeld, Novation Nova, Creamware Noah, and Roland SH32, all of which were produced while the VST spec was available.
Yeah, some of those synths have lovely hardware-based front-ends, but if the CC spec is implemented properly, then a VST to support the CC Implementation is surely both easy to implement, and a worthwhile feature that will get folk like the overly-enthusiastic Sound On Sound reviewers giving their unconditional thumbs-up to.

And Scope, well, it is in a league of its own. A high-quality version of pretty much everything that DSP can do - synths, effects, processors, mixers, modular, free devices, routing, ...
A synthesizer for Scope that supported the kind of excellent modulation interface in the impressive DCam Synth Squad would be something I'd be interested in... :-)
Not because it is easy, but because it is hard...
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by jhulk »

i like dcam squad very good vsti

being fxpansion who used to code fore scope

would love for them to code for scope 6 as i think those dcam synths would sound better on the dsp

as for ctrlr its a very good program and does it well

but no documentation is pita and everything is trial and error to get tit to work once you get it working then its easy to use

but the learning curve is massive as you have to fumble around the program trying things an d if it works you go with irt if not you try something else

now scope synths they need some 14bit cc controls addedand then they would be easy to control from our generic 14bit cc ctrlr panels
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by Eanna »

jhulk wrote: being fxpansion who used to code fore scope
Really? Didn't know that!
Do you know what devices they may have done up? Are they still available? I'd love to try them, altho the the DCam DSP atoms came in 2009...
jhulk wrote: would love for them to code for scope 6 as i think those dcam synths would sound better on the dsp
I would love if someone could offer a logical, technical reason for this! The same block of compiled C code running on native PC hardware and on Analog DSPs is the same? Is there a bit-depth thing going on with DSPs? Something about Floating Point truncation? A "Strict Math" problem?
jhulk wrote: now scope synths they need some 14bit cc controls addedand then they would be easy to control from our generic 14bit cc ctrlr panels
Are these available? Like Tau's Max4Live patch?
http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... -sender-16

With Max4Live, apparently Stretta has the bones of the Expert Sleeper's Silent Way VST done up as a Max4Live patch.
http://stretta.blogspot.ie/2011/06/vcvi-maxforlive.html
Thanks to jksuperstar for pointing that out, here:
http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31765
Jitter-free control and step-free audio-rate modulation of Scope's Modular by a MaxForLive patch? Count me in!
Wonder if Stretta or someone else can implement the Expert Sleeper's AC Encoder plugin, which allows an AC-coupled Audio Interface to send CV out, via the Rectifier Cable trick? My Presonus Digimax FS would love to talk to my Minitaur!

I had thought that we'd gain CV control for Minimax, Prophet and B2003 by djmicro's Modular wrappers...
http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=31095
http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31100
http://forums.planetz.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=31098
Looks like these don't do CV... they're just wrappers over the normal pads on the synths (Midi I/O, Audio I/O). So, unfortunately, no CV smoothly-modulated sweeps here, stuck with Midi... Still tho! It's only a good thing, if only for Modular patches...

Ableton 9 is out in a mere 4 days! I availed of the opportunity to upgrade to Suite 8, with the free Suite 9 upgrade when it comes available, last month.. I for one cannot wait to spend yet more hours of my life messing about with Max4Live fun!! :-)
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by petal »

dawman wrote:My kid does wonders with FLS 10 on a laptop, he is so spoiled though. Doing good in everything too, so I offered to buy an NI Mashine since it seems pretty cool and the little jerk said nah, thanks Pa, but I'll take an Akai MPC......
He's killing me..
Maybe your son saw this guy in action on his Akai MPC's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmEhCDRvQKA

:)
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by jhulk »

nope not max for live

ctrlr sharc and i have built 14bit cc generic control panels

and they are smooth
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Re: A revolution is comming: Native Instruments new Synth

Post by dawman »

petal wrote:
dawman wrote:My kid does wonders with FLS 10 on a laptop, he is so spoiled though. Doing good in everything too, so I offered to buy an NI Mashine since it seems pretty cool and the little jerk said nah, thanks Pa, but I'll take an Akai MPC......
He's killing me..
Maybe your son saw this guy in action on his Akai MPC's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmEhCDRvQKA

:)
His girlfriend overdosed on finger orgasms... :D
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