I'm in no way against micro-tonal scales of whatever dimension - I'm pretty sure tweaking an FM synth (partly) does exactly the same in some situations.
But since (developement) resources aren't free or available in arbitrary amounts, there would be a ton of stuff I'd prefer instead of an extension in that direction.
Of course that's not directly related to Ken's question, but '...they should have implemented etc etc...' is unavoidable in this context.
cheers, Tom
just curious, who's into microtones and alternative tunings
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kensuguro
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oh c'mon guys, only 4 votes? lol
As for me, I'm struggling to make maximum use of just 12, so I'm not complainin'. It bugs the hell out of me when a newbie goes into the alternate tuning/ micro tone direction when the person creates rubbish with just 12. Sounds to me like "easy contemporary credibility" and "blame it on the system" to me. Perfectly fine if the person knows what he's doing, or if it's for an artistic aesthetic purpose. Definitely not just for "contemporary" credibility, or for sake of being "avant garde". Avant garde's too old, too 70's.
But it all depends on what kind friends the guy's sister has. They're hot? In that case, I'm all for micro tones. I just had micro tones for lunch.
As for me, I'm struggling to make maximum use of just 12, so I'm not complainin'. It bugs the hell out of me when a newbie goes into the alternate tuning/ micro tone direction when the person creates rubbish with just 12. Sounds to me like "easy contemporary credibility" and "blame it on the system" to me. Perfectly fine if the person knows what he's doing, or if it's for an artistic aesthetic purpose. Definitely not just for "contemporary" credibility, or for sake of being "avant garde". Avant garde's too old, too 70's.
But it all depends on what kind friends the guy's sister has. They're hot? In that case, I'm all for micro tones. I just had micro tones for lunch.
now, see ken? that's exactly what i was saying.
i'm certainly not against microtones or people being able to use them! if i was, i certainly wouldn't have so much music in my house that uses them
it's funny, almost every single instrument makes use of them except the average keyboard. the simpler the instrument, the subtler the music it seems... asian music, african music, arabic music, blues, jazz, ozard fiddle tunes, irish music, almost anything connected to song or voice makes use of microtones in the melody. the keyboard is like a low resolution recording, except when you start combining notes. when this happens, things get pretty complicated. 12 tones is a lot for me when dealing with harmony....
i'm certainly not against microtones or people being able to use them! if i was, i certainly wouldn't have so much music in my house that uses them
it's funny, almost every single instrument makes use of them except the average keyboard. the simpler the instrument, the subtler the music it seems... asian music, african music, arabic music, blues, jazz, ozard fiddle tunes, irish music, almost anything connected to song or voice makes use of microtones in the melody. the keyboard is like a low resolution recording, except when you start combining notes. when this happens, things get pretty complicated. 12 tones is a lot for me when dealing with harmony....
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Mr Arkadin
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Yes but how much better those 12 tones would be in Just Intonation - sure you can't change key easily, but if you're not changing key anyway why not have it in Just - then all the relationships between the notes are fine.garyb wrote:12 tones is a lot for me when dealing with harmony....
And i don't think it's a case of just trying to be contemporary - Harry Partch actually based his ideas on systems that he believed the ancient Greeks might have used for music theatre. His music is based very much on the music following the timbre of speech, rather than straight-jacketing the voice into the 12 -tone system. BTW he didn't always use 43-note scales, if a piece demanded it he would use 9 or 23 or whatever, that's the point, you can work with fewer notes too if you want.
Last edited by Mr Arkadin on Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kensuguro
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right, I'd like to re-emphasize that I'm not attacking the people who are sincerely trying to use microtones as an artistic method. I'm pointing more to the people who sort of say or do it because it seems cool to do so, or think it's a way out when their music sucks otherwise. I should have made that clearer in my intro. (about pointing to the "fakers")
You have to admit, regardless of how old the concept is, historically, people tend to feel "superior" when they venture into areas beyond 12 tone. Creating an impression of being forward minded, creating something new. I think the picture is wrong. It's just a method. The politics involved in that is just plain dumb. And it works wonders for the naive public. To the naive public, the concept will remain new and avant garde, for a long, long time. And as long as that continues, there will be musicians will use the public's ignorance as leverage. It's a great formula to make something seem edgy.
You have to admit, regardless of how old the concept is, historically, people tend to feel "superior" when they venture into areas beyond 12 tone. Creating an impression of being forward minded, creating something new. I think the picture is wrong. It's just a method. The politics involved in that is just plain dumb. And it works wonders for the naive public. To the naive public, the concept will remain new and avant garde, for a long, long time. And as long as that continues, there will be musicians will use the public's ignorance as leverage. It's a great formula to make something seem edgy.
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hubird
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Mr Arkadin
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Yes rules are to be broken. It's good i think to at least know that stuff so you can stick two fingers up at it. Philip Glass as a reaction to this created a 25 minute work called Music in Fifths where every progression is in fifths. Geniuswayne wrote:Yes. I got a bit sus of my music tuition as a kid when told that (in 4-part harmony) consecutive octaves & fifths were a no-no.
.
The octaves with more than 12 intervals do not imply that they are used all together in the same composition, but are made to preserve "natural" intervals in relation to a certain root note.
I'm particularly into it for several reasons. First of all, I'm half Greek, from mother's side and I've been exposed to some folk music that is coming from the Turkish influence...most of the music in Greece uses the E.T., but still there is some different one.
Then I have a Saz that I play and love, having that instrument like an everyday sofa exercise for a little (it's more handy than a guitar) trains your ear.
Third thing, FleXor III has octave microtuning with its Scale Tuning module. I'm making the presets for it, both for European pre E.T. tunings, like Werkmeister III, Meantone and many others, plus the Arab Maqmats to be played only on white keys....I had some difficulties in finding more than one Gamelan tuning, but then I discovered that each orchestra has its custom made instruments and its own microtunings!
Anyway, the absolute equal temperament is something that started only in the 20th century, even in the 19th century there were "different sounding" pianos.
The Equal temperament is something heavily artificial. Have a listen to "microtuned" music for a while, like original harpsichord music recorded on professionally tuned instrument, then return to some E.T. stuff, expecially the same composition and you will find Equal Temperament harsh and disturbing.
I'm particularly into it for several reasons. First of all, I'm half Greek, from mother's side and I've been exposed to some folk music that is coming from the Turkish influence...most of the music in Greece uses the E.T., but still there is some different one.
Then I have a Saz that I play and love, having that instrument like an everyday sofa exercise for a little (it's more handy than a guitar) trains your ear.
Third thing, FleXor III has octave microtuning with its Scale Tuning module. I'm making the presets for it, both for European pre E.T. tunings, like Werkmeister III, Meantone and many others, plus the Arab Maqmats to be played only on white keys....I had some difficulties in finding more than one Gamelan tuning, but then I discovered that each orchestra has its custom made instruments and its own microtunings!
Anyway, the absolute equal temperament is something that started only in the 20th century, even in the 19th century there were "different sounding" pianos.
The Equal temperament is something heavily artificial. Have a listen to "microtuned" music for a while, like original harpsichord music recorded on professionally tuned instrument, then return to some E.T. stuff, expecially the same composition and you will find Equal Temperament harsh and disturbing.
Re: just curious, who's into microtones and alternative tuni
Hi,
what do you think about using:
1. well tempered scales (i.e. Werckmeister's 'Correct' #1 (1/4 - comma) (1691) or Kirnberger's 1/2 - Comma (Irregular, 1771)),
2. meantone scales (i.e. Aron's 1/4 Syntonic Comma Meantone - equal beating) or
3. just intonation (i.e. Malcolm's Monochord)?
http://www.pianolit.com/tuning
In interaction with acoustic instruments you often get better results, than using equal temperature and if you do not modulate too much, harmonies get lots of richer (depends on what you want to do exactly in composing process).
Some well documented hardware sythesizers can be tempered so by SYSEX instructions. Is there any Scope synth accepting such commands?
what do you think about using:
1. well tempered scales (i.e. Werckmeister's 'Correct' #1 (1/4 - comma) (1691) or Kirnberger's 1/2 - Comma (Irregular, 1771)),
2. meantone scales (i.e. Aron's 1/4 Syntonic Comma Meantone - equal beating) or
3. just intonation (i.e. Malcolm's Monochord)?
http://www.pianolit.com/tuning
In interaction with acoustic instruments you often get better results, than using equal temperature and if you do not modulate too much, harmonies get lots of richer (depends on what you want to do exactly in composing process).
Some well documented hardware sythesizers can be tempered so by SYSEX instructions. Is there any Scope synth accepting such commands?