Mixer with channel strip midi control

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scary808
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Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by scary808 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:01 pm

Scope mixer midi control

I'm not sure how much this has been discussed but I've been pondering on the subject. I've been using some of the digital consoles with work lately (Yamaha LS-9 and Midas M32) and they have got me thinking. The way you access the channel strip functions is by selecting the track then use dedicated controls for the eq and dynamics. Has there been any attempt at something like this? Something like a track selection dependent control scenario.

dawman
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by dawman » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:05 pm

Right click...?

I've used digital mixers since Yamaha DMP7.
Recently played with Allen & Heath QU 24.....Awesome .
Mixers and automation have come a long way.

Personally Scope has better sound so I sent the mixer back after 2 weeks.

jksuperstar
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by jksuperstar » Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:25 pm

Scary808, I think I know what you are after. Instead of 24 channels x 32 controls (for panning, eq, comp, etc) you'd have a fixed set of 32 controls, and they would get assigned to whatever channel is selected. It certainly reduces the amount of hardware controls needed (or programmed in a BCR2000 for example).

I'd take it up a notch...adding modes. 1 mode is as you describe, another mode might be all 24 channels of panning / AUX send 1, etc. Dynamically mapping based on the mode selected would make a single control go very far....

btw - I've had a BCF2000 and a BCR2000 fully programmed to handle a 24 channel mixer, with Pan, EQ, compression, mutes, solo, sends, and bus controls...and scope crashed a lot. It didn't seem to like having several hundred midi assignments. So this might solve that problem also.

dawman
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by dawman » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:35 pm

After reading the M32 manual now I understand what youre asking.

Hows the sound on the M32R?

Really looks like a nice design.
Love the way the Plug in GUIs have Lexicon or SPL layouts.

scary808
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by scary808 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:40 am

That is exactly what I'm thinking. The modern digital console design made me realize having a knob for every single pot isn't just unnecessary. The only thing it would hinder is obviously automation. Perhaps only have the first 2 aux sends have as statically assignable. The modes idea is great. There is a lot that could be done if this could be implemented.

The M32 sounds fantastic! I haven't used it for anything other than corporate AV but I can hear it's quality. The channel eq and dynamics are very useable. The compressor has some cool features. Selectable key sources as well as filters and eq on the key path(dial it in as a de-esser for instance). I haven't heard the time based effects or any of the ala carte plugins but I would be surprised if they weren't top shelf. The processing is being done with SHARCs afaik.

jksuperstar
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by jksuperstar » Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:29 pm

The STM mixers are laid out like this...with only one channel displayed fully at a time. I wonder if these mixers could be modified in the SDK to fix midi control of the gui, or maybe S|C could unlock the mixers for this modification to happen by the community (especially in a ScopeSync wrapper)? At this point the mixers are included in every release of scope, and I don't think there's very much thats proprietary about them.

It would certainly make things convenient for control.

dawman
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by dawman » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:19 pm

Screensets are pretty good for calling up the all channels page, or the Bus/aux page.
I call the master channel page too, but to get the channel I want I have to assign a CC# in the lower right channel number display then use a fader to scroll through the channels.
Not the most precise method but keeps me awah from the rack and QWERTY/Mouse.

dawman
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by dawman » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:21 pm

Scary808.

Is you utomate parameters of the FX using MIDI CCs on the M32?

Like changing delah tempos and rate/depth, etc.?

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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by scary808 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:33 am

dawman wrote:Scary808.

Is you utomate parameters of the FX using MIDI CCs on the M32?

Like changing delah tempos and rate/depth, etc.?
No I haven't done anything like that. No need for that type of thing for corporate talking heads.

It would be great if S|C would unlock the STM mixer for this mod. I don't have SDK but I would gladly lend functionality input and testing if it happens.

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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by dawman » Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:59 pm

Demo'd the M32R and the 01V96 V2 today.
Impressed by the M32 but was 1200 dollars more so brought back the 01V96.
Also had a flight cas and triple ADAT.
At pre production we ran 2 modified ADA8200s which have the same analog path as Midas.
Burr Brown opamps with Midas Mic pres and an 01V96 are a poor man's Midas M32.

Yamaha MIDI is extreme.
They invented it.

M32 is such a great mixer though.
Much better workflow compared to Yamahas layers.
But automating the Yamaha and those VCM FX are really the juice here.
Rev X is really good for drums but I got 2 pairs of TC Fireworx cascaded via AES/EBU then get the dual ADAT Expansion card.
ADA8200 will get the 3rd.

I got lots of work to do now with this and the Physis K4.
Won't see the sunshine for weeks.

mausmuso
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by mausmuso » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:06 pm

Funny, I have been thinking about something similar whilst building a new stem mixer.
I thought it would be useful to have a quick fire A/B check of a couple of mixes.
I would want to have A/B 'modes' to switch between for all controls in a 8 Stereo mixer.
I think it's all possible, just have to work through the switching logic to make it happen.
Essentially there would be 3 components, the Control (knob, switch etc), 2 x Control Fields to hold the A and B settings and the circuit function to be controlled.
Now we would need to switch these components to across all channels.
Switching A to B would mean switching control fields for all controls on all channels
Switching the control itself would be simpler in that it depends mainly on what channel you want to tweak.
I think what I am proposing here is more complex than the modes JK was talking about, but basically along the same lines.
maus

jksuperstar
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by jksuperstar » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:23 pm

Isn't there a way to capture all values of a device without using midi? Like just doing quick preset selection? Then you can A/B the mix, or A/B a channel strip, etc.

I love the idea.

mausmuso
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by mausmuso » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:56 pm

I need to give this some thought.
Presets might be a little clunky, not sure at this early stage
maus

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spacef
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by spacef » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:25 am

I tried years ago. Took me many attempts, changes and re-do.

At the end it works...as long as you don't assign midi CC to the Eqs. then it becomes unreliable.

May be the technic was not the right one...

Pic of an un-released experimental device.
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dawman
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by dawman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:04 am

jksuperstar wrote:Isn't there a way to capture all values of a device without using midi? Like just doing quick preset selection? Then you can A/B the mix, or A/B a channel strip, etc.

I love the idea.
SAL Prj Preset List.
Only works MIDI channel 1.
Snapshot changed by preset.

Incredible device.

mausmuso
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by mausmuso » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:27 pm

I played around a bit with switching Controls (knobs, buttons, etc) switched to various circuit control points. The aim was to have one set of controls switchable to various channels. This would make the panel layout much simpler.
The problem you run into immediately is you overwrite the switched circuit control point with the setting on the control and of course you first want to change the control to the circuits value and then have the control available to make new tweaks.
I setup a control and couple of circuit points and switched them around using the routing recorder under the control of a flipflop (allows it to read the circuit and then switch the controls around so the control is the sending module). It sort of works but I am not sure how well it would go with a full blown mixed which may have 100's of control points. Would it be more DSP efficient than having switchable panels and duplicated controls, I am not sure.
I am working on a Stem mixer with 8 stereo channels, 5 auxiliaries and a master section. The number of parameters needed to capture all control points is > 480.
maus

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spacef
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by spacef » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:45 am

the system I implemented is 100% reliable and works flawlessly. no need for flip-flop or any sync module. But the midi CCs break it.

mausmuso
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by mausmuso » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:36 pm

spacef wrote:the system I implemented is 100% reliable and works flawlessly. no need for flip-flop or any sync module. But the midi CCs break it.
it would be interesting to see how you managed that.
I didn't like where I was heading - too complex.
maus

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spacef
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by spacef » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:43 pm

recorded routings obviously :)

mausmuso
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Re: Mixer with channel strip midi control

Post by mausmuso » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:53 pm

Yep
Makes sense thanks

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